Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Marc411]

I am not for a ban on anything. With that said a petition with as many signatures as we have had on pro vaping a petition for a total ban on cigarettes would have the same effect on the fda...... NOTHING.....

That tells you everything you need to know about the fda.

This tells you everything you want to know about the FDA, our Government and local officials. It will also tell you why the states of Illinois, California and NY are driving the majority of the regulation. One link tells you most of the story. It's a damn shame the same data isn't available for the revenue generated for the medical profession as it pertains to cancer, and pharmaceutical companies sales on meds for THR. Our government will allow millions to become sick or die to protect the revenue stream.

There is really only one true question. If this is about protecting the children, teens or the general public how is tobacco still available and a product that is scientifically proven to be 95% safer being banned.

In 2016 in the U.S., there will be an estimated 1,685,210 new cancer cases and 595,690 cancer deaths. Of which Lung and bronchus contribute to 224,390 new cases and 158,080 deaths which is number one.

American Cancer Society | Cancer Facts & Statistics

Follow the money, years view of MSA payments

NAAG | MSA Payment Info

 

[zoiDman]

Indeed, Robino and Zoidman... something that hasn't been heavily discussed.

I fully believe a flavor ban will be first on the agenda, with the exception of tobacco and menthol. Flavors are already banned in all tobacco products under FDA regulatory control, I see no reason why they wouldn't extend this to e-cigarettes and newly deemed cigars/cigarillos (bye bye, Swisher Sweets).

Some time ago the FDA banned clove cigarettes (which, frankly, got me smoking as a teenager in the mid 1980s when they became popular... and to this day LOVE the smell). However, they are still available, as I occasionally (gleefully!) smell people smoking them. So obviously the FDA hasn't been able to completely abolish them.

BTW - Once e-Liquids that contain Nicotine have a Statutory Federal Definition as a "Tobacco Product", look for States to go Ape Snit on New/Amended State Regs regarding "Tobacco Products".

 

[skoony]

They were re-formulated as mini cigars. Cigarellos.

I can tell you from personal experience that the flavored cigarettes and cigarillo's
all tasted like . They left the taste of what only be described as flavored
talcum powder in your mouth. Despite what that annoying PSA on the radio says
or what any and all so called scientific evidence supposedly demonstrates no child ever
started smoking because of grape flavored smoking tobacco. Never happened.
The stuff was pathetic.
Mike

 

[Icemanxxxv]

What are the CC companies scared of ...guilty by association?

I can buy a pack of smoke at a bm with my slurpee. How could cc keep you from buying ar a vape shop bm

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

They actually figured out a way to ban flavors without banning them, all they have to do is not approve any PMTA for a flavored product. That way, they don't have to deal with the dichotomy of allowing the BT "tobacco" flavors, but not allowing other flavors since they're all technically characterizing flavors.

Winner - Winner
Chicken Dinner!

LOL

 

[Katya]

This tells you everything you want to know about the FDA, our Government and local officials. It will also tell you why the states of Illinois, California and NY are driving the majority of the regulation. One link tells you most of the story. It's a damn shame the same data isn't available for the revenue generated for the medical profession as it pertains to cancer, and pharmaceutical companies sales on meds for THR. Our government will allow millions to become sick or die to protect the revenue stream.

There is really only one true question. If this is about protecting the children, teens or the general public how is tobacco still available and a product that is scientifically proven to be 95% safer being banned.

In 2016 in the U.S., there will be an estimated 1,685,210 new cancer cases and 595,690 cancer deaths. Of which Lung and bronchus contribute to 224,390 new cases and 158,080 deaths which is number one.

American Cancer Society | Cancer Facts & Statistics

Follow the money, years view of MSA payments

NAAG | MSA Payment Info

Right! Then do as ZoiDman did--write to Biden (who wants to fight our cancer epidemic), write to your reps, also!

I just contacted Mr. Biden.

Told him that after 25 Years of Smoking, I was able to Quit by using an e-Cigarette. And after 6 years of e-Cigarette use, my Physician is Extremely Happy with my marked Improvement in my over-all Health.

I also Told him how Utterly Disgusted I was with the FDA Deeming Announcement. How Existing Science is being Ignored. And if He (and this Administration) truly wanted to Impact Cancer, they would be viewing e-Cigarettes as the UK Health Ministry is. As Viable Harm Reduction to Smoking.

Submit Your Comments and Questions Online

 

[The Ocelot]

Indeed, Robino and Zoidman... something that hasn't been heavily discussed.

I fully believe a flavor ban will be first on the agenda, with the exception of tobacco and menthol. Flavors are already banned in all tobacco products under FDA regulatory control, I see no reason why they wouldn't extend this to e-cigarettes and newly deemed cigars/cigarillos (bye bye, Swisher Sweets).

Some time ago the FDA banned clove cigarettes (which, frankly, got me smoking as a teenager in the mid 1980s when they became popular... and to this day LOVE the smell). However, they are still available, as I occasionally (gleefully!) smell people smoking them. So obviously the FDA hasn't been able to completely abolish them.

ANTZ has been going after menthol cigarettes for years. This article is from a couple of years ago. The Coming War on Menthol Cigarettes

"Cigarette smuggling — now largely focused on avoiding the many taxes imposed on tobacco — already got a boost in the late '90s when additional fees were added to comply with the tobacco industry's settlement deal with state attorneys general. If menthol cigarettes are banned entirely, a new and extremely lucrative market will open up.

"According to the ATF, more than $100,000 can be made right now from just a simple minivan full of contraband cigarettes smuggled into New York City. This puts money into the hands of the mob and even would-be terrorists while simultaneously depriving straining governments of tax revenue.

"By the way, the Lorillard Tobacco Company, which sells these cigarettes, estimates that outlawing menthol cigarettes would reduce state and federal tax revenues by approximately $40 billion."

 

[zoiDman]

Theoretically nothing other than the 90 day restrictions as described should be all
that happens but like you I think it advisable not to close ones eyes or hold our
breathes waiting two years. It might be just me but, I have this vague feeling
that by this regulation is written something in the way regulations are introduced,
written and ,enacted is being profoundly altered. Nothing I can nail down.
Regards
Mike

What is the Basis for this Theoretically?

The Good Faith that the FDA Feels it has Done Enough to Regulate e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids? Or perhaps a Hesitancy of the FDA to Over-Regulate for Fear that Public Health could be Negatively Impacted?

 

[TravelinGirl]

My question is:

After the 90 days, how will the FDA know or not know if new devices etc are coming into the market or coming in from China?

How will they stop this?

I think I know but I refuse to type it here. As thorough as they are with the deeming's I am sure they have a plan for this.

Just a thought..................................................................

 

[zoiDman]

Right! Then do as ZoiDman did--write to Biden (who wants to fight our cancer epidemic), write to your reps, also!

I have been BCC-ing just about any e-Mail Address I can get to Resolve.

And after I rest for a bit after Waging War on a 8 Foot Philodendron, I plan to Write some More.

 

[Lessifer]

My question is:

After the 90 days, how will the FDA know or not know if new devices etc are coming into the market or coming in from China?

How will they stop this?

I think I know but I refuse to type it here. As thorough as they are with the deeming's I am sure they have a plan for this.

Just a thought..................................................................

I don't remember where I saw it, but I think part of their guidance to manufacturers was to submit a list of their products for registration. Not part of the PMTA process, just a list of products so that the FDA knows what is currently out there.

 

[Lessifer]

What is the Basis for this Theoretically?

The Good Faith that the FDA Feels it has Done Enough to Regulate e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids? Or perhaps a Hesitancy of the FDA to Over-Regulate for Fear that Public Health could be Negatively Impacted?

The deeming is just cementing their authority, the REAL regulation has yet to begin.

 

[WillyZee]

IMO, every PMTA submitted by a juice company will be rejected ... unless the juice is packed in a non refillable, leak proof cartridge that works on a proprietary one piece single device (also part of the same submitted PMTA).

there will be zero PMTAs approved for eLiquid manufacturers wanting to supply juice for refilling the devices we have today.

 

[TravelinGirl]

I don't remember where I saw it, but I think part of their guidance to manufacturers was to submit a list of their products for registration. Not part of the PMTA process, just a list of products so that the FDA knows what is currently out there.

Yes, but how DOES the FDA know nothing will slip in and it be business as usual just flying under the radar?

 

[Katya]

I don't remember where I saw it, but I think part of their guidance to manufacturers was to submit a list of their products for registration. Not part of the PMTA process, just a list of products so that the FDA knows what is currently out there.

Ruby said the date for that was December?

I don't know, really. I'm too getting a headache. Carry on.

Back to RW. BBL.

 

[TravelinGirl]

IMO, every PMTA submitted by a juice company will be rejected ... unless the juice is packed in a non refillable, leak proof cartridge that works on a proprietary one piece single device (also part of the same submitted PMTA).

there will be zero PMTAs approved for eLiquid manufacturers wanting to supply juice for refilling the devices we have today.

EXACTLY. They already want it non-refillable so why would they leave ejuice out there? For those that stocked up after their deemings hit. Me don't think so

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Ask him then why cigarette manufacturers don't have to demonstrate that their products are not harmful (actually, that they are good for public health), while vapor product manufacturers do. If it's about parity?

And yes, ask him to support HR 2058 and the Cole-Bishop amendment to the 2017 Agricultural appropriations bill.

Kayta,
I posted this elsewhere because I, like everyone, am just so disturbed by current events. Goes along with your above post(i think).
my rant
When does a ecig become a tobacco product?

In and of itself, it is just a bunch of metal and electronics.
It may or may not end up being a carrier of nicotine product call ejuice. Once the end-user receives these products, does not the authority of government control cease?

The ecig industry is being singled out from the rest of the tobacco products in that none of the other approved tobacco or nicotine delivering devices have ever had this level of strict scrutiny aimed at it. We have only found some of the ingredients in cigarettes, but this is only after years and years of study after study being done.

Do the nic patches or gum reveal their ingredients?

I have often said in the past that the BT companies took a lesson from the illegal drug trade in that they started targeting the pleasure centers of the brain so as to keep smokers hooked for life. They never had to ask for FDA approval before taking this action. God knows what else they have done, leaving the rest of us to find out only through clinical trials and/or autopsies.

FDA is using ecigs to pay for the mistakes that were made with cigarettes.

I know I am probably not wording this correctly but hope that the message is coming through. I know there has to be a way to win in court, I just hope millions of more lives are not lost in the process.

/rant off

the phrase strict scrutiny are keywords sometimes used in court proceedings.

 

[Katya]

The deeming is just cementing their authority, the REAL regulation has yet to begin.

 

[The Ocelot]

Regarding the "race card" reported in the article I previously linked to, I posted this on a thread in July 2013.

The F.D.A. also announced that it would conduct a public education campaign focused on young people this year, and said it was commissioning three new pieces of research related to menthol, including one on genetic differences in taste perceptions that might explain why some racial and ethnic populations are more likely to smoke menthol cigarettes.

It's so nice to know my taxes are funding important scientific research.

Then @skyztheLynnit posted:

Ahhhh!! My heads gonna pop off! This is ludicrous!

I could be interpreting it wrong but isn't this borderline racist? Genetic differences in TASTE??

I responded:

It's because a higher proportion of menthol smokers are Black and Latino. The issue was brought up before, when the FDA banned flavored tobacco and some segments of the population felt discriminated against since their preferred flavor was being targeted, even though it has been around much longer than the candy and fruit flavors the FDA said were enticing young people to start smoking.

I can't figure out what the research is supposed to reveal. That some portions of the population are predisposed to preferring menthol cigarettes, so it's really important to ban them to save specific segments of the population from themselves? Nice. What about other ethnicities who are genetically predisposed to higher rates of alcoholism?

FDA moves toward restricting menthol in cigarettes

 

[zoiDman]

They actually figured out a way to ban flavors without banning them, all they have to do is not approve any PMTA for a flavored product. That way, they don't have to deal with the dichotomy of allowing the BT "tobacco" flavors, but not allowing other flavors since they're all technically characterizing flavors.

BTW - Here is what Mr. Zeller said on the PBS Newshour (May 5th, 2016. A Date which will Live in Infamy) when asked about the Banning of Flavors...

HARI SREENIVASAN: If you know what attracts the young kids is the flavors, why not have something that addresses the flavors today?

MITCH ZELLER: We will be able to address the rule of flavors in each and every one of the applications that the companies submitted for marketing authorization, and they will have to answer our questions about what role are the flavors in your products playing in initiation by kids and initiation by anyone who’s never used the product? We’ll be able to handle that through the applications.

Skyrocketing teen use of e-cigarettes leads to new regulations