Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I don't trust one bit what will come from our bought and paid for Government will enact. The last 6+ months I've been prepping, I've got a freezer of 100mg nic and this is part of my stash.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

You may even be able to ???? market side jobs as with all that wire? Some of us don't know how to do coils....hint, hint

eta I saw one seller on fleabay already doing this.

 

[crxess]

Doesn't a Predicate Product have to have been Sold in a US Market?

Absolutely - That is part of the Original Regulatory Deeming written By the (FDA-US Based BT COALITION) To Appease the People and Protect Big tobacco's Current(at the time) Market interest.
i.e. - No un-monitored Changes to Product, but continue on with Business as usual and We will keep other tobacco interest from Reducing your Market Share
Repeatedly Proven by Denial of SE Applications by off shore competitors.

Can anyone say - Monopolize - ?

 

[zoiDman]

You may even be able to ???? market side jobs as with all that wire? ...

Constantine Wire for 1/64th scale War Enactment Diorama's?

 

[tippi771]

Mitch Zeller explains the deeming rule, talks about the grandfather date, (it's not over yet), why flavours are excluded, potential next steps...

 

[r055co]

You may even be able to ???? market side jobs as with all that wire? Some of us don't know how to do coils....hint, hint

eta I saw one seller on fleabay already doing this.

Nope, won't do it for profit. I'll only do it for cost and teaching people how to do it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[retired1]

And no biz talk, either. Sheesh!

 

[zoiDman]

Mitch Zeller explains the deeming rule, talks about the grandfather date, (it's not over yet), why flavours are excluded, potential next steps...

Did you notice how our friend Maggie said at 3:36

"All of these requirements seems like common sense to those of us who are working in the field. However, the Tobacco Industry has been pursuing a Variety of Tactics to get Congress to bind the FDA's Hands with respect to these products."

 

[DC2]

I honestly see it as the fuel for their next agenda, closed systems, because honestly if you look back the opposition has always laid their cards out on the table as to what they are aiming for if you listened close enough.

There are dozens of reasons why open systems could be eliminated.
So many, in fact, that it's hard to figure all the angles they can come at us with.

--Those batteries are dangerous
--Too much nicotine and children
--Too many yummy flavors and children
--Product could be adulterated or tampered with
--Higher watts could make any given juice deadly
--Lower ohms could make any given juice deadly

If open systems survive the onslaught I will be shocked to my core.
Because if they do, everyone who has money in this game will lose badly.

And we will win!!


Yeah, can't see it going down that way without HEAVY litigation.

 

[DC2]

I do not see how the FDA can have full control over eliquids if thy are allowed to be sold by the bottle for open systems. If presently per the new rules you have to have approval for each flavor/each nic level and so on, there is no possible way to control changes in eliquid other than to make vaping systems one complete closed unit eliquid included.

I now dub thee...

The first person to truly understand.
Because yes.

 

[crxess]

So B&M's can no longer sell individual Mods or Component Parts unless they receive certification as a Manufacturer

SUPPORT COLE BISHOP PEOPLE

Ask everyone you know to Help by supporting COLE-BISHOP

With it are Mortally Wounded, Without - WE ARE DONE!

 

[r055co]

I do not see how the FDA can have full control over eliquids if thy are allowed to be sold by the bottle for open systems. If presently per the new rules you have to have approval for each flavor/each nic level and so on, there is no possible way to control changes in eliquid other than to make vaping systems one complete closed unit eliquid included.

Exactly, you're preaching to the choir. The FDA with it's regulations here and there regulations in the EU put vaping firmly in the hands of Big Tobacco. It's all about money and control, nothing remotely is based on safety or health.

The only way for us to remove this from Big Tobacco is to remove from office the Politicians who are in their pockets. This is why we need a full court press on the Politicians. Sadly the one's here in the States are pretty much the entire Democratic Party, from the head of the DNC herself down they are out to kill vaping. I write my Representatives regularly letting them know that I not only will not support anyone who is supporting the FDA regulations but will actively work to replace them.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

So good to hear Desmond Jenson throw the Baby Out with the Bathwater by saying the Most Effective way to stop Minors from buying e-Cigarettes over the Internet is to BAN ALL SALES via the Internet.

Desmond Jenson (@DesmondJenson) | Twitter

It's Funny, this is supposed to be a "Science Based Agency", so where is the Talk about Smokers Quitting using e-Cigarettes? Or that e-Cigarettes have Orders of Magnitude less Harm than Cigarettes?

Sounds more like the FDA is More Concerned with the Elimination of "Tobacco Products". Something they are Not Chartered to Do. Than improving Public Health. Something they ARE Chartered to do.

 

[Lessifer]

I do not see how the FDA can have full control over eliquids if thy are allowed to be sold by the bottle for open systems. If presently per the new rules you have to have approval for each flavor/each nic level and so on, there is no possible way to control changes in eliquid other than to make vaping systems one complete closed unit eliquid included.

Well, it could be possible, if you were to get approval. Let's say you make Liquid A which I will dub Llama and it is a 50/50 mix with 12mg nicotine, and you get it approved as such. You will have to make Llama in large batches and each batch will have to be tested, and records kept, proving that it is exactly the same as the Llama that was approved. You will also have to ensure that the packaging that Llama goes into is exactly the same as the packaging that Llama was in when it was approved. Then you could sell this as a final product to consumers.

This means that you have to control your supply line to ensure that the components of Llama are always exactly the same as they were when you got Llama approved, and that means everything from the PG, VG, nic, flavoring components, bottle, bottle cap, label, label colors and fonts, packaging, etc.

Each bottle of Llama that is available for sale has to be identical to each previous bottle of Llama.

The chances of you actually getting approval are a separate discussion, but we can get into that if you want.

 

[Coldrake]

For those that missed the White Cloud webinar with Cynthia Cabrera, Executive Director of SFATA, (it was great, a lot of information concerning the deeming regs), you will be able to find it on YouTube tomorrow here.
White Cloud Electronic Cigarettes

Other White Cloud webinars coming up are with Dimitris "Vapin' Greek" Agrafiotis, Chairman of SEVIA USA, and Tony Abboud, the National Legislative Director of the Vapor Technology Association on Thursday May 26 at 2pm EDT, and another with Aaron Biebert, the director of "A Billion Lives" on Monday June 6 at 2pm EDT.

You can register for the Dimitris-Tony Abboud webinar here.
Welcome! You are invited to join a webinar: E-Cigs DeMISTified: What FDA Regulations Mean for You. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email about joining the event.

Registration for the Aaron Biebert webinar isn't up yet.

Get your questions ready!

 

[crxess]

My apologies. After listening to all that I am so upset I can barely think straight......or as straight as I ever have
The Wall are still intact.........so far......But I want a Zeller Punching bag so it isn't funny.

Almost as much as Deeming, I fear the next thread I enter, where some ANTZ PLANT Clown or just plain Naive individual wants to talk about how FDA Deeming isn't so bad....... I will miss ECF should I slip and speak my mind

Okay, that was my Count to 10.

Now, what do we do next to battle this Crock of ?


Need more people to post their concerns to the John Oliver Last Week Tonight producers. Seems The E-cig industry is Fast heading for Last weeks News

Spoiler: Avalon Television

Avalon Television

 

[Coldrake]

 

[Bob Chill]

The FDA deeming regs hits really close to home for all of us here but in the bigger picture it's just a piece of the cancer infecting our Government. It's not new. It's been going on for decades. I already lost a very successful mortgage business to the double phone book sized Dodd-Frank. Compliance wasn't an option because it was impossible to do it and remain profitable. Small businesses like mine vanished so fast it was shocking.

Before I lost my business, all independent real estate appraisers lost their business that they spent decades building up a loyal book of business. Just with a swipe of a pen. If anyone cares what the regulation was called it was the Home Valuation Code of Conduct or what we called HVCC. Those who wanted to stay in the business took a 40% per report cut in pay and waited desperately for an assignment from an "approved" appraisal management company. Yea, those approved companies raked it in on the backs of hard working appraisers that were treated like dogs. So sad.

There are countless cases at both the State and Federal level where barriers of entry became too tall. Costs to steep. All at the swipe of a pen.

The issue is with how regulators operate. They all have a 10k' view to the world. They don't live in our world. They live in their comfy Government office with more benefits and perks than many if not all of us ever get a chance to experience. And they think they know what's best for us (because we are incapable on knowing what is best for us) all the while trying to win a popularity contest for them. Unintended consequences go unpunished and bad regulations rarely (if ever) get reversed.

The deeming regs are terrible legislation with the biggest losers being the small business owners and consumers. It's become so common that it's "normal" now. What makes the deeming regs one of the worst offenders is that regulations usually target an actual problem with clear and present danger. In this case the problem and clear and present danger was never proven. It was manufactured. With millions of current vapers in the US, the accident rate is very low compared to just about anything. No doctor or scientist can prove any legitimate health consequences. And it's not like they haven't been looking for it. Plenty of cash has been thrown at trying to find any notable health consequence from vaping. In 7 years they found exactly nothing conclusive.

These articles are unrelated to vaping or the regs but they just show how bad things have been getting for small business and consumers in the US.

Consumers Are the Best Regulators

http://www.economist.com/node/21547789

 

[Rossum]

I, however, don't believe ecigs ARE a tobacco product, so applying the same regulations to them is wrong.

It doesn't matter what you or I believe. What matters is whether we can convince anyone in "authority" of that.

I think we have a chance to convince 'em that nic-free liquids and hardware are not tobacco products.

But vape-stuff that contains nicotine extracted from tobacco?...

 

[YoursTruli]

Well, it could be possible, if you were to get approval. Let's say you make Liquid A which I will dub Llama and it is a 50/50 mix with 12mg nicotine, and you get it approved as such. You will have to make Llama in large batches and each batch will have to be tested, and records kept, proving that it is exactly the same as the Llama that was approved. You will also have to ensure that the packaging that Llama goes into is exactly the same as the packaging that Llama was in when it was approved. Then you could sell this as a final product to consumers.

This means that you have to control your supply line to ensure that the components of Llama are always exactly the same as they were when you got Llama approved, and that means everything from the PG, VG, nic, flavoring components, bottle, bottle cap, label, label colors and fonts, packaging, etc.

Each bottle of Llama that is available for sale has to be identical to each previous bottle of Llama.

The chances of you actually getting approval are a separate discussion, but we can get into that if you want.

and so the anti-argument has shifted to but hey once your bottled eliquid is out in the wild where teens have access to it stuff can be added to it because it goes into an open system that you can add practically anything in to versus a completely closed tamper proof system. This has been mentioned by the FDA as well as a hot topic in the news as of late, teens adding stuff to e-cigarettes to vape (although I have different thoughts on that as to type of vaping equipment involved) it has been on my local news quite a bit and in several other states I am aware of and in national media as well.

 

[nicnik]

I figure WhiteCloud vetted this video with their lawyers, and that they don't anticipate trouble from the authorities on account of the captions they added. Or maybe they DO anticipate trouble...