Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[crxess]

And it Doesn't matter if 1 of 3 the Didn't do the First, or if 1 of the 3 Did do the Second, I Blame the 3 Much More than I Blame Mr. Zeller.

 

[Rossum]

Good for you. Keep saying that when they cart you off to prison
or the looney bin for being a vape terrorist.

The FDA does not regulate the private use or consumption of tobacco products.

BTW, any thoughts on a march on DC..you can bring your weapons.

As a general rule, I prefer to keep at least 100 km of distance between myself and that place. Any closer and the stench of corruption becomes intolerable.

 

[HazyShades]

The FDA does not regulate the private use or consumption of tobacco products.


As a general rule, I prefer to keep at least 100 km of distance between myself and that place. Any closer and the stench of corruption becomes intolerable.

No, you regulate your private use and consumption..but the FDA regulates your ability to purchase tobacco products or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The last time I was in DC I counted 120 ladies of the night on M street
about a block from the whitehouse.
I don't like the stench you mentioned either but I won't complain
unless I try.

See my sig

 

[classwife]

Let's be totally clear here. What the FDA does or doesn't do going forward is going to entirely depend on which way the wider political wind blows.

The best case scenario is that manufacturers find their products tolerated, but illegal. The worst case scenario is that everything is taken off the shelves.

Flavors, in particular, are going to remain in huge danger as long as the "US teens are suffering an epidemics of nicotine addiction" lie stays in place. This is being contrived by the CDC, and reaffirmed by Matt Myers and the CTFK. The FDA doesn't need to change its course while those lies hold dominance and are believed by millions of Americans.

So then the CDC, this Matt Myers and the CTFK need a bit of our attention...emails, letters...SCREAMS.

 

[SpiritBear]

........
I really don't think the FDA is "evil" although some of the leadership definitely is. I'd say the agency as a whole is misguided. Give people this great mission, protect the public health, and they will do what people will do and distort that because it never goes far enough. Then things become an organism unto themselves and it just feeds and feeds, and if you're an employee you either have to go along with it, or you get swallowed up. They need a course correction, and it will not come from within.

Wait til they discover that LIFE causes DEATH, 100%

 

[classwife]

And this whole liquids are flavored to attract the children crap...

WE created all the flavors through the years for US to quit smoking...
WE found the flavors WORKED because they tasted better than a lousy cigarette.

No one was making them for the dang children - we made them FOR OURSELVES !!

 

[zoiDman]

So then the CDC, this Matt Myers and the CTFK need a bit of our attention...emails, letters...SCREAMS.

When you crank up that Letter to Tom Frieden of the CDC, be sure to include a copy to an All-Around Great Guy, and a very Unbiased Professional when it comes to e-Cigarettes, Tim McAfee.

Tom Frieden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://www.cdc.gov/media/spokesperson/sme-bios/McAfee.pdf

Contact CDC-INFO

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

Reminds me :

Wasn't there a deadline mentioned in the Senator's letter to the FDA ?

I'm not even sure if the FDA has an obligation to respond without being subpoenaed. (Executive vs. Legislative branch). Even that didn't work for Eric Holder. Basically, I'm not sure *who* answers to who these days. LOL! It certainly isn't us.

Besides...

If they don't respond, what's Johnson going to do about it?

If they do respond... what's Johnson going to do about it?

Somebody should hammer his staffer's email on June 1 asking about it.

 

[crxess]

No one was making them for the dang children - we made them FOR OURSELVES !!

Upset much? I concur

FDA Angering the wrong lady

 

[zoiDman]

I'm not even sure if the FDA has an obligation to respond without being subpoenaed. (Executive vs. Legislative branch). Even that didn't work for Eric Holder. Basically, I'm not sure *who* answers to who these days. LOL! It certainly isn't us.

Besides...

If they don't respond, what's Johnson going to do about it?

If they do respond... what's Johnson going to do about it?

Somebody should hammer his staffer's email on June 1 asking about it.

I Hope the FDA blows off the Oversight Committee (which they Won't). It just gives more approval to Senators, and possibly Judges, that the FDA is operating Outside of its Authority.

 

[Steamix]

I'm not even sure if the FDA has an obligation to respond without being subpoenaed. (Executive vs. Legislative branch). Even that didn't work for Eric Holder. Basically, I'm not sure *who* answers to who these days. LOL! It certainly isn't us.

Besides...

If they don't respond, what's Johnson going to do about it?

If they do respond... what's Johnson going to do about it?

Somebody should hammer his staffer's email on June 1 asking about it.

Exactly that. Senators are busy people.
So once past the deadline, I am VERY keen to - politely - follow up on that with the Senator's office.
Banging the drum for the vapers is cool.
Let's see if there is also an inclination to bang a few heads for being way out of line with these regs...

 

[bigdancehawk]

Why is an injunction a certainty? I think you have to ask for it and Nicopure to my knowledge hasn't. And a trial my not happen for years.

Listen here starting at about 27:40. While Cynthia (Executive Director of SFATA) is no attorney, she explains it well.

There may or may not be a "trial." The procedure for judicial review of administrative regulations doesn't require one.

Most of the time, these cases are decided based on the record created by the agency and the information which was submitted to it. Very much like an appellate procedure, where the decision on appeal is based on the record of the trial court's proceedings and no new evidence is allowed.

Furthermore, discovery isn't usually allowed in these proceedings. As much as you might like to get some FDA clown under oath in a deposition and ask him some very pointed questions, that may not happen.

Finally, the nice lady in the video said preliminary injunctions are issued right away after suit is filed. That's simply not the case. It can take a good long while before the judge decides whether or not to issue a PI. In extreme or urgent cases it may be possible to get a temporary restraining order ("TRO"), but I can't see that happening here.

 

[bigdancehawk]

If the case is accepted for consideration
an injunction is automatic until the case is resolved either way.

What do you mean, "accepted for consideration"? The case will certainly be considered. It's been filed and the court has to consider it. By no means does that make an injunction, preliminary or otherwise, automatic.

 

[HazyShades]

What do you mean, "accepted for consideration"? The case will certainly be considered. It's been filed and the court has to consider it. By no means does that make an injunction, preliminary or otherwise, automatic.

Read the suit again. See down at the remedy section.
The court is under no obligation to consider a lawsuit other than to consider it
worthy of adjudication. If it is considered worthy then the defendant's
offending action which caused the dispute suit will be held back
and the injunction asked for in the remedy section
will be temporarily granted as per the request in the remedy sought section.

Since the all of the items contested and petitioned for in said lawsuit
seem worthy of legal consideration and not frivolous
imho the lawsuit will be considered worthy and said injunction issued temporarily.

Read it again, look at who is representing Nicopure...those guys don't mess around.
What is happening is that they're buying time...

 

[crxess]

So then the CDC, this Matt Myers and the CTFK need a bit of our attention...emails, letters...SCREAMS.

For @classwife and All Vapers in the USA
Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

Send your Message!
Dal

 

[ZeroedIn]

Read the suit again. See down at the remedy section.
The court is under no obligation to consider a lawsuit other than to consider it
worthy of adjudication. If it is considered worthy then the defendant's
offending action which caused the dispute suit will be held back
and the injunction asked for in the remedy section
will be temporarily granted as per the request in the remedy sought section.

Since the all of the items contested and petitioned for in said lawsuit
seem worthy of legal consideration and not frivolous
imho the lawsuit will be considered worthy and said injunction issued temporarily.

Read it again, look at who is representing Nicopure...those guys don't mess around.
What is happening is that they're buying time...

THIS ^^^^^^^, EXACTLY!

 

[englishmick]

I have a hard time with that notion. Most of the flavors we use were around long before vaping existed. There's a reason they're called "food flavorings".

Moreover, the FDA specifically states that:
The term "tobacco product" does not apply to raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product.

Thus it seems to me that a flavor concentrate would be considered a raw material in the context of making e-liquid and does not fall under the regulations pertaining to tobacco products. I believe the courts would agree without much hesitation.

That sentence jumped out at me back when I read through the Deeming doc. It does seem to affirmatively exclude VG, PG, and flavorings from their control, along with stainless steel, glass, and kanthal. Maybe they wanted to do this. Maybe they realized it would be impossible to control stuff with so many other uses. But why would they put the language in at all? Maybe it was to take some obvious losers off the table ahead of lawsuits.

It does seem to keep nicotine in their basket, under tobacco.

 

[nineironman]

Does a MRTP come before or after a PMTA and how do you insert it?

I would like to tell ths FDA how to insert it!

 

[englishmick]

Hey that's Cool. Like I said, Mr. Zeller isn't exactly on the Top of my Friends Lists.

But there were 3 people Above Him who had the Power to step in and say...

"Hey Mitch, Jeeze take it down a Notch. This is Regulatory Overreach. And we are hurting More People that we are Helping. And if you Don't, I Will."

Not to mention several hundred other people down the road in the House of Fools who could have brought him to heel if they wanted to, and still could. My guess is too many of them have been bought off, but I still think there's a chance it could happen.

 

[nineironman]

Yes, but unfortunately suckling the gub'min's teat and kissing it's derrier
is mandatory in today's politically correct genderless system where the Constitution is as good as toilet papier.
To think gub'min is going to leave anything alone is just silly.
They are there to nanny our butts.
Since the gub'min has proven itself to be nothing but a canine
I think my analogy works well.

Mostly a female canine.