Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

No argument here. So I guess, if you DIY and use flavourart flavorings, stock up now, because they may not be available to consumers in the future?

Personally, I just don't see the FDA trying to Restrict the sale of Food Flavorings if there is not mention of e-Cigarettes. Same with batteries. And Wire. And Cotton.

But NO ONE should take anything I say as anything more than an Opinion when it comes to Being Prepared.

 

[Mazinny]

That's the point, FA markets their products as e-liquid flavorings. Making it a tobacco product component, which I believe would require a PMTA. The other flavoring companies don't market their products that way.

I think they have two lines. The eliquid flavorings line are the ones that have undergone toxicity testing. All these flavors are availabe in their Kitchen Magic line as well. The reverse is not true however, many flavorings in their food line are not available in their eliquid flavoring line.

 

[Bronze]

 

[The Ocelot]

I just love sarcasm. This pet rock is a tobacco product.

I have murrini slices I use for tank charms. Lampwork glass is now a tobacco product.

 

[skoony]

Sort of like lets concentrate on the ant when it is Monsanto making everyone sick and poisoning our food, water, land.

Monsanto is the modern day equivalent of tobacco. Everything they do
just like BT is to deceive and poison us for profit.
Who could argue with this? They are killers,yes?
regards
Mike

 

[Katya]

Speaking of...I just got an email from Lightning Vapes (don't remember buying anything from them) saying this:

Adult Signature to be required on e-liquid & coil head orders soon.
Within the next few weeks, we will be requiring adult signatures on any orders containing e-liquid, coil heads, the 521 Tab, and any other products we sell with nicotine, or which could be used out of the box to deliver nicotine. This does not include wire, batteries, basic tools, or wicking material. What an adult signature means is that a person 21 years or older with government issued photo ID present will be required to sign for the package upon delivery.

How does the 521 Tab deliver nic? I suppose this is better than requiring us to send a copy of our driver's license, which I would never do but it still sucks. And what is a government issued photo ID? Does a driver's license qualify? Needless to say I won't be spending my money there if I ever did but we'll probably be seeing more of this .

 

[zoiDman]

They sell finished liquids in Europe. Also the testing they do on their flavors will be needed for the vendors selling liquid using their flavors ( if they can afford PMTA ).

If I am selling Flavorings. And I sell to someone who wants to do a PMTA for a Flavored e-Liquid. It is the person who is going to mix my Flavorings who is going to be Required to submit Testing. Not Me.

Now I can do it if I feel it would help me. But it would seem the Only people that I would want to do that for would be BT and a couple of BV.

And I don't see there being many Flavors that can get thru a PMTA. And States seem to be able to Ban Flavorings. So I would have to Think Long and Hard before I start cutting checks to Testing Labs.

 

[The Ocelot]

Guess we have to wait 'n see what happens in court.

Today 5 pm, FDA is expected to reply to a certain letter.

I hope the response is made public.

 

[Mazinny]

If I am selling Flavorings. And I sell to someone who wants to do a PMTA for a Flavored e-Liquid. It is the person who is going to mix my Flavorings who is going to be Required to submit Testing. Not Me.

Now I can do it if I feel it would help me. But it would seem the Only people that I would want to do that for would be BT and a couple of BV.

And I don't see there being many Flavors that can get thru a PMTA. And States seem to be able to Ban Flavorings. So I would have to Think Long and Hard before I start cutting checks to Testing Labs.

Yeah i understand, but say if Njoy for example wants to do a PMTA for for one of their eliquids using FA flavors, they can rely on some of the testing FA has already done, unless the FDA says none of that is relevant since we don't know if the flavors in combination might not be problematic, even though each component has been tested.

 

[HazyShades]

Not getting into the argument here, but if it's the interview I'm thinking of, I THINK the potential negative with the injunction is if the judge decides NOT to grant it, which would mean that the judge does not think you stand a decent chance of winning. That was my lay interpretation at least.

What I heard was the attorney vacillating about giving a clear answer
either way while the interviewer persisted.
IF (big IF) the potential negativity lies in that if the judge doesn't issue it
it means he doesn't think the suit stands a chance then in my humble opinion
is reason to ask so that complainants can either not waste their time and money
or try to get a change of venue and/or judge.

I want to make clear that I agree with our learned
attorney colleague that getting an injunction would be wise
and usually a leading item
and that I may indeed be mistaken about the injunction
being a given.

There is no argument, Lessifer. You are always welcome
to input your facts and opinions into any conversation or discussion
that I may be involved in, even if it's to disagree. I've read many of your posts
and have been told lots of good things about you by several of our mutual friends who respect and admire you..you are a good...civil... man.

Regards,
Hazy

 

[crxess]

Just had another thought, this whole thing is so ridiculous...

"Big Head Nod"

So freakin true

 

[HazyShades]

I have murrini slices I use for tank charms. Lampwork glass is now a tobacco product.

Guess the lump of clay that I made my first mod stand for my first Vamo
with is a tobacco product too.
Those are purty

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah i understand, but say if Njoy for example wants to do a PMTA for for one of their eliquids using FA flavors, they can rely on some of the testing FA has already done, unless the FDA says none of that is relevant since we don't know if the flavors in combination might not problematic, even though each component has been tested.

Yeah...

I don't know (I don't think) that any Testing that someone like FA has previously done could help on a say an Njoy PMTA unless the Testing was done on the EXACT same e-Liquid (Nicotine mg/ml, PG|VG, Flavoring %, pH Level, etc) that Njoy is planning on submitting.

If any factor(s) are Different, the FDA might just Round File the entire PMTA.

The PMTA (as I understand) is for a "Complete Product". And not a collection of Data based on Isolated Components.

 

[Lessifer]

What I heard was the attorney vacillating about giving a clear answer
either way while the interviewer persisted.
IF (big IF) the potential negativity lies in that if the judge doesn't issue it
it means he doesn't think the suit stands a chance then in my humble opinion
is reason to ask so that complainants can either not waste their time and money
or try to get a change of venue and/or judge.

I want to make clear that I agree with our learned
attorney colleague that getting an injunction would be wise
and usually a leading item
and that I may indeed be mistaken about the injunction
being a given.

There is no argument, Lessifer. You are always welcome
to input your facts and opinions into any conversation or discussion
that I may be involved in, even if it's to disagree. I've read many of your posts
and have been told lots of good things about you by several of our mutual friends who respect and admire you..you are a good...civil... man.

Regards,
Hazy

Yeah, the legal stuff is interesting to me, but I don't have the knowledge in that area to fully understand everything, but that doesn't stop me from speculating that's all it is though since I have nothing to do with any litigation and I'll just be waiting to see what happens just like everyone else. I assume whatever lawyers are doing the filing know what they're doing.

Also, ditto on welcoming conversation/discussion with you

 

[Lessifer]

Yeah...

I don't know (I don't think) that any Testing that someone like FA has previously done could help on a say an Njoy PMTA unless the Testing was done on the EXACT same e-Liquid (Nicotine mg/ml, PG|VG, Flavoring %, pH Level, etc) that Njoy is planning on submitting.

If any factor(s) are Different, the FDA might just Round File the entire PMTA.

The PMTA (as I understand) is for a "Complete Product". And not a collection of Data based on Isolated Components.

Wouldn't it be fantastic if regulations of this magnitude that determine the manufacturing and testing standards for an entire industry actually contained standards and manufacturing/testing requirements?

 

[zoiDman]

"The PMTA (as I understand) is for a "Complete Product". And not a collection of Data based on Isolated Components."

BTW - This one of the Main Reason I believe that Open Systems are not going to be Approved.

Because I think that the FDA will just say that the PMTA Applicant did not show data on All Possible Combination and Permutations that a Vaper could use the Open System with.

And that there is No Prevention of an Open System from being "Adulterated".

 

[HazyShades]

Yeah, the legal stuff is interesting to me, but I don't have the knowledge in that area to fully understand everything, but that doesn't stop me from speculating that's all it is though since I have nothing to do with any litigation and I'll just be waiting to see what happens just like everyone else. I assume whatever lawyers are doing the filing know what they're doing.

Also, ditto on welcoming conversation/discussion with you

I have some experience..by baptism I think it's termed
and having read a lot of summons and chapter 33 of the local municipal code but even though I have an intense dislike for the field and it's operatives
I'm considering going back to school at this late stage of my game and studying law if only for reasons of self defense.

Regards,
Hazy

 

[The Ocelot]

I'm confused. A naturally curious 4-year-old went off somewhere he shouldn't have. Kids do that. A decision was made that because a child's life was in danger a gorilla had to be shot. That's protecting the children, right? Yet a petition titled Justice for Harambe has over 300,000 signatures, there's a facebook page with the same name and the parents are being investigated.

I'm not taking sides in the matter, just confused about why there aren't at least few people not involved in the vaping issue, with no first-hand knowledge of the situation, aren't giving us support. <sarcasm>

 

[zoiDman]

Wouldn't it be fantastic if regulations of this magnitude that determine the manufacturing and testing standards for an entire industry actually contained standards and manufacturing/testing requirements?

Ya think? LOL

It kinda like when someone says you have to Jump over a Bar that is High Enough. And when you ask them "How High is High Enough?", they say "We aren't going to Tell You. Because we Don't Have to."

---

Face it. This how "Tobacco" Thing was/is based around Dis-Approving what the FDA Does Want. Not about Meeting a Recognized Standard that is based on Science and Health.

 

[ZeroedIn]

I'm confused. A naturally curious 4-year-old went off somewhere he shouldn't have. Kids do that. A decision was made that because a child's life was in danger a gorilla had to be shot. That's protecting the children, right? Yet a petition titled Justice for Harambe has over 300,000 signatures, there's a facebook page with the same name and the parents are being investigated.

I'm not taking sides in the matter, just confused about why there aren't at least few people not involved in the vaping issue, with no first-hand knowledge of the situation, aren't giving us support. <sarcasm>

Well, its because we're smokers, of course.