Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

ETA: statutorily?

That's the One.

Tough little bugger to spell when your Eyes are Blurring from being up since 5:00.

 

[nicnik]

I saw that too, and I have no idea. It would seem to imply there is a predicate e-liquid, since I don't think you can do SE or SE Exemption from something that was approved via PMTA, or do I have that wrong?

They've said that SE can be potentially successful based on a product that is accepted through PMTA.

 

[Lessifer]

They've said that SE can be potentially successful based on a product that is accepted through PMTA.

Not doubting you, but who said it and where? I've asked before and no one seemed to know. Not that I'm optimistic about successful PMTA's for products even somewhat resembling what I use.

 

[Mazinny]

I'll believe that when I see it, which I hope is never, because I still have hope that this whole mess will be thrown out. It's not a very big hope, but I'm a romantic at heart.

I don't know what our odds are of having this " whole mess thrown out ", not greater than 20 % is my guess, but i think our odds of minimizing the effect of " this whole mess " are pretty good ! I think Cole/Bishop has a reaaly good chance of passing, and that is absolutely essential in buying us time. The ultimate goal is to have a sensible regulatory system with no connection to tobacco or drug regulations, but that will be way in the future. Cole/Bishop passing is essential, and every vaper should be doing all in their power to make that a reality.

 

[crxess]

Well, everything I've ever seen refers to it being Substantially Equivalent to a predicate product. I've wondered about it before, and no one seemed to have an answer.

ETA: statutorily?

Maybe their Predicate Product claim(existing) also Brings to the Table - E-liquid by default as the source of nicotine for delivery.
Back to PG/Tobacco Flavor/nic

 

[nicnik]

Not doubting you, but who said it and where? I've asked before and no one seemed to know. Not that I'm optimistic about successful PMTA's for products even somewhat resembling what I use.

I wish I could remember, but it was no earlier than the day the regulations were released, and I'm not sure if I heard it in an interview with an FDA official, or it was quoted from an FDA official, but it came from the FDA, not just from someone's analysis.

 

[Lessifer]

Maybe their Predicate Product claim(existing) also Brings to the Table - E-liquid by default as the source of nicotine for delivery.
Back to PG/Tobacco Flavor/nic

Wouldn't it have to have been a marketed product? Unless their definition of e-liquid is different than ours.

 

[Woofer]

Regardless of the veracity of the above information or lack thereof
I prefer to play it safe and not use canola oil, after all it isn't custard

But by all means feel free to eat as much of it as you can

Yes by all means eat what you want, even the Monster Energy drink you enjoy, I am OK with that until you tell me Monster Energy Drinks are healthy.

I do not eat as much of anything as I can, I think that is not healthy eating. I believe in eating a moderate amount of a wide range of mostly unprocessed and unprepared foods.

It contains “the infamous chemical warfare agent mustard gas,”

I can't resist this great bit of total ignorance.
Mustard Gas aka Mustard Agent aka Sulfur Mustard is not contained in or made from Canola, Rapeseed, Cabbage, Tobacco or any other member of the Nightshade plant family.

Synthesis[edit]
Sulfur mustard is the organic compound with formula (ClCH2CH2)2S. In the Depretz method, sulfur mustard is synthesized by treating sulfur dichloride with ethylene:

SCl2 + 2 C2H4 → (ClCH2CH2)2S
In the Levinstein process, disulfur dichloride is used instead:[4][5]

8 S2Cl2 + 16 C2H4 → 8 (ClCH2CH2)2S + S8
In the Meyer method, thiodiglycol is produced from chloroethanol and potassium sulfideand chlorinated with phosphorus trichloride:[6]

3 (HOCH2CH2)2S + 2 PCl3 → 3 (ClCH2CH2)2S + 2 P(OH)3
In the Meyer-Clarke method, concentrated hydrochloric acid (HCl) instead of PCl3 is used as the chlorinating agent:

(HOCH2CH2)2S + 2 HCl → (ClCH2CH2)2S + 2 H2O
Thionyl chloride and phosgene, the latter of which (CG) is also a choking agent, have also been used as chlorinating agents.

Sulfur mustard is a viscous liquid at normal temperatures. The pure compound has a melting point of 14 °C (57 °F) and decomposes before boiling at 218 °C (424 °F).

Sulfur mustard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I EAT GLUTEN TOO!

 

[Lessifer]

I don't know what our odds are of having this " whole mess thrown out ", not greater than 20 % is my guess, but i think our odds of minimizing the effect of " this whole mess " are pretty good ! I think Cole/Bishop has a reaaly good chance of passing, and that is absolutely essential in buying us time. The ultimate goal is to have a sensible regulatory system with no connection to tobacco or drug regulations, but that will be way in the future. Cole/Bishop passing is essential, and every vaper should be doing all in their power to make that a reality.

I'm no longer satisfied with minimizing the damage. Yes, we need to move the predicate date, to buy time, but I want victory. I want different rules for vaping.

 

[Mazinny]

I'm no longer satisfied with minimizing the damage. Yes, we need to move the predicate date, to buy time, but I want victory. I want different rules for vaping.

pretty much what i said, except you seem to be a little more angry

 

[HazyShades]

Nothing in the grapevine about whether the FDA replied to Senator Johnson yet.
I was googling around and some guys at reddit are discussing it.
Hope as soon as y'all hear/read anything ya post it

 

[Lessifer]

pretty much what i said, except you seem to be a little more angry

I am a little more angry, because to be honest, I've never been satisfied with minimizing the damage, because I never saw vaping under the FSPTCA as a viable option. So, yeah, I'm a little angry that we seem to have wasted quite a bit of time trying to get fair treatment from the FDA.

 

[crxess]

Wouldn't it have to have been a marketed product? Unless their definition of e-liquid is different than ours.

No clue, still looking for their Predicate e-cig

 

[Mazinny]

I am a little more angry, because to be honest, I've never been satisfied with minimizing the damage, because I never saw vaping under the FSPTCA as a viable option. So, yeah, I'm a little angry that we seem to have wasted quite a bit of time trying to get fair treatment from the FDA.

Yeah, hindsight, 20/20 and all that. What's done is done. One step at a time now, let the industry do their thing with lawsuits and whatnot, what we can do as consumers is help Cole/Bishop pass. Once we've accomplished that, on to the next step ! That's how i see it anyway.

 

[Katya]

Just a smaller Turd with the FDA not saying what it takes to do a Successful SE.

Not even disclosing what the predicate product is--if it even exists.

 

[Katya]

No clue, still looking for their Predicate e-cig

Keep us posted...

 

[Katya]

Maybe their Predicate Product claim(existing) also Brings to the Table - E-liquid by default as the source of nicotine for delivery.
Back to PG/Tobacco Flavor/nic

Bring your own VG?

 

[Lessifer]

Yeah, hindsight, 20/20 and all that. What's done is done. One step at a time now, let the industry do their thing with lawsuits and whatnot, what we can do as consumers is help get Cole/Bishop pass. Once we've accomplished that, on to the next step ! That's how i see it anyway.

I agree that we have to continue moving forward. It's not hindsight though, it was foresight.

 

[HazyShades]

Yes by all means eat what you want, even the Monster Energy drink you enjoy, I am OK with that until you tell me Monster Energy Drinks are healthy.

Yes by all means eat what you want, even the Monster Energy drink you enjoy, I am OK with that until you tell me Monster Energy Drinks are healthy.

I do not eat as much of anything as I can, I think that is not healthy eating. I believe in eating a moderate amount of a wide range of mostly unprocessed and unprepared foods.



I can't resist this great bit of total ignorance.
Mustard Gas aka Mustard Agent aka Sulfur Mustard is not contained in or made from Canola, Rapeseed, Cabbage, Tobacco or any other member of the Nightshade plant family.

Synthesis[edit]
Sulfur mustard is the organic compound with formula (ClCH2CH2)2S. In the Depretz method, sulfur mustard is synthesized by treating sulfur dichloride with ethylene:

SCl2 + 2 C2H4 → (ClCH2CH2)2S
In the Levinstein process, disulfur dichloride is used instead:[4][5]

8 S2Cl2 + 16 C2H4 → 8 (ClCH2CH2)2S + S8
In the Meyer method, thiodiglycol is produced from chloroethanol and potassium sulfideand chlorinated with phosphorus trichloride:[6]

3 (HOCH2CH2)2S + 2 PCl3 → 3 (ClCH2CH2)2S + 2 P(OH)3
In the Meyer-Clarke method, concentrated hydrochloric acid (HCl) instead of PCl3 is used as the chlorinating agent:

(HOCH2CH2)2S + 2 HCl → (ClCH2CH2)2S + 2 H2O
Thionyl chloride and phosgene, the latter of which (CG) is also a choking agent, have also been used as chlorinating agents.

Sulfur mustard is a viscous liquid at normal temperatures. The pure compound has a melting point of 14 °C (57 °F) and decomposes before boiling at 218 °C (424 °F).

Sulfur mustard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I EAT GLUTEN TOO!

I didn't say Monster drinks are healthy. Strawman
I said I drink them. I drink caffeine and inhale nicotine also.
Neither of those have traces of hexane or pesticides
nor do they stiffen my cardiovascular system.
In fact the taurine in Monster is very beneficial

Did you understand the connection to mustard gas? No.
Know why? Because you were in too much of a hurry to actually read what I posted and the part where it says:
"...mustard gas,” hemagglutinins and toxic cyanide-containing glycocides; it causes mad cow disease, blindness, nervous disorders, clumping of blood cells and depression of the immune system. This is what detractors say about canola oil "

The writer admits that what he says re mustard oil ETC is hype
then proceeds to enumerate the real problem(s) with canola/rapeseed oil

What does what you eat have to do with canola oil being bad for you?
I don't see how what you eat negates the ill effects of canola oil
other than that at least you eat healthy now and then while you poison yourself.

You eat gluten? Good for you so do I. Some people react badly to gluten. I know a lady whose bipolar son couldn't eat it or he'd have an episode.
But I have no problem with gluten.
I do have problems with pesticides and solvents.

Did you post here that you would not post about this topic anymore? Yes you did.



Regards,
Hazy

 

[Mazinny]

I agree that we have to continue moving forward. It's not hindsight though, it was foresight.

Well yeah it was foresight on your part i suppose, but " i told you so ", doesn't solve anything at this point. I don't really blame the industry ( and every one else who commented on the proposed deemings ) for trying. They thought they had a chance.