Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[HazyShades]

I can't "like" either of you posts, since I understand them.

We also can't forget Wounded Knee.

I understand. I'm not a like junkie..I'm an angry vaper.
Wounded Knee goes a bit far back..Not that I don't have great admiration for North American tribes.
It does demonstrate that the pattern of BS, treason
and breaking words and treaties is well established.

 

[Lessifer]

Lawsuit Claims Vape Company Lied About the Chemicals It Puts in E-Juice

A group of three vapers has filed a multimillion-dollar class action lawsuit for false advertising against a US company that makes flavored liquids for e-cigarettes.

The suit alleges that five pawns, a high-end e-liquid manufacturer, violated state and federal false advertising laws by misleading consumers about certain flavoring chemicals found in some of its liquids

You know, I never did see any ads or official marketing from 5p that said that their liquids were diketone free. I did see an email from a rep. The lawsuit seems a bit frivolous to me, being as there's no demonstrable harm, but this is America and people are free to file any suit they can get a lawyer to write up.

For the record I am not defending 5p, I don't even like their liquids.

 

[The Ocelot]

Lawsuit Claims Vape Company Lied About the Chemicals It Puts in E-Juice

A group of three vapers has filed a multimillion-dollar class action lawsuit for false advertising against a US company that makes flavored liquids for e-cigarettes.

The suit alleges that Five Pawns, a high-end e-liquid manufacturer, violated state and federal false advertising laws by misleading consumers about certain flavoring chemicals found in some of its liquids

There are always those who want to make a buck off a situation. Since they are claiming false advertising, instead of personal injury, I wonder if they even vaped it. Maybe I should go after Suicide Bunny. I never tried any of their products, but, ya know...I need my house painted.

 

[HazyShades]

You know, I never did see any ads or official marketing from 5p that said that their liquids were diketone free. I did see an email from a rep. The lawsuit seems a bit frivolous to me, being as there's no demonstrable harm, but this is America and people are free to file any suit they can get a lawyer to write up.

For the record I am not defending 5p, I don't even like their liquids.

Agreed. Money hungry vapers..some people like to sue..mostly at lawyer's instigation..think about it. All those laws
robbing us of our freedom are usually written by lawyers.

I did not see 5Pawns advertise their safe products
and don't like 5 Pawns only because a guy dressed up like a monk
kept raving about it..Blasphemy of the Spirit..

But, assuming there is or was any merit to the lawsuit
then I'm not impressed by their letter tooting their own horn.
I understand maybe this isn't the time to point out that a juice manufacturer is or might be full of it..but he asked what I thought.
I think we need companies with unquestionable reputations.
I have questions for 5 Pawn about their expensive juice.

 

[HazyShades]

There are always those who want to make a buck off a situation. Since they are claiming false advertising, instead of personal injury, I wonder if they even vaped it. Maybe I should go after Suicide Bunny. I never tried any of their products, but, ya know...I need my house painted.

yea, see my reply to Lessifer
I need a new house.. Any suggestions as to who I should sue?

 

[Katya]

You know, I never did see any ads or official marketing from 5p that said that their liquids were diketone free. I did see an email from a rep. The lawsuit seems a bit frivolous to me, being as there's no demonstrable harm, but this is America and people are free to file any suit they can get a lawyer to write up.

For the record I am not defending 5p, I don't even like their liquids.

It was a bit... controversial. Here's the last we heard on this forum. Looks like it's over.

Partial order to dismiss. However, the plaintiff's have until May 9th to refile some of it.

Duane Robert Greene et al v. Five Pawns, Inc. :: California Central District Court :: Federal Civil Lawsuit No. 8:15-cv-01859

 

[The Ocelot]

It was a bit... controversial. Here's the last we heard on this forum. Looks like it's over.

I hate reading dockets, I wanna see the juicy parts.

 

[Katya]

I hate reading dockets, I wanna see the juicy parts.

Then you'll have to read the entire thread

Five Pawns Class Action Lawsuit

Plenty juicy...

 

[HazyShades]

It was a bit... controversial. Here's the last we heard on this forum. Looks like it's over.

When I first heard the news and read the suit
the first thought that came to my mind was
that some lawyer, possibly even a vaper lawyer
had instigated the entire thing..

But I saw some of the corroborating exhibits
which seemed to back up some of the claims.
Still I thought it frivolous, but in an effort to remain unbiased even as a vaper, or especially because I'm a vaper, I have questions.

Not that I really care personally as far as whether the juice is safe or not because I mostly DIY. But because
I knew this present situation was coming I felt that both the
complainants and defendants should be playing nice

 

[Katya]

When I first heard the news and read the suit
the first thought that came to my mind was
that some lawyer, possibly even a vaper lawyer
had instigated the entire thing..

But I saw some of the collaborating exhibits
which seemed to back up some of the claims.
Still I thought it frivolous, but in an effort to remain unbiased even as a vaper, or especially because I'm a vaper, I have questions.

Not that I really care personally as far as whether the juice is safe or not because I mostly DIY. But because
I knew this present situation was coming I felt that both the
complainants and defendants should be playing nice

^ Exactly right.

 

[HazyShades]

^ Exactly right.

Having just speed read that thread again, ( I read it post by post the first time) this is the big question that I still have;
"the fact that company representatives denied their presence after the company's own testing showed that to be untrue is the point"

Why is the question. Why BS if you have nothing to hide?

To me it only matters whether 5P lied.
I hate BS...with a passion..especially from people in authority..
but that's not related..only the BS is

 

[Katya]

Having just speed read that thread again, ( I read it post by post the first time) this is the big question that I still have;
"the fact that company representatives denied their presence after the company's own testing showed that to be untrue is the point"

Why is the question. Why BS if you have nothing to hide?

To me it only matters whether 5P lied.
I hate BS...with a passion..especially from people in authority..
but that's not related..only the BS is

I can't really tell you what was going on behind the scenes. That's why I said from the beginning that the whole thing was controversial.

Besides, diacetyl may not be as bad as previously thought.

From another thread worth reading:

I'm personally more concerned about cinnamon and menthol than I am about diacetyl.

 

[Lessifer]

Having just speed read that thread again, ( I read it post by post the first time) this is the big question that I still have;
"the fact that company representatives denied their presence after the company's own testing showed that to be untrue is the point"

Why is the question. Why BS if you have nothing to hide?

To me it only matters whether 5P lied.
I hate BS...with a passion..especially from people in authority..
but that's not related..only the BS is

If I were a 5p exec this would sound like a cop out, but I'm not, so just take it as my guess. Employees answering questions that they don't fully understand. Or without the proper information. Happens to me all the time with sales people who don't really know what they're selling.

All that aside, it will be companies like 5p who took the business side of the industry seriously that MIGHT survive. They seem like the types who would have full manufacturing facilities, coded batch storage, and all that necessary stuff. Not my favorite type of liquid company, but it's closest to what the FDA would allow. Single ratio stuff in consistent packaging and consistent product. If the regs aren't stopped, those are the types of liquid companies that have the best chance of survival. And if you think it's expensive now...

 

[HazyShades]

I can't really tell you what was going on behind the scenes. That's why I said from the beginning that the whole thing was controversial.

Besides, diacetyl may not be as bad as previously thought.

From another thread worth reading:

I'm not very worried about diacetyl,
there are worse toxins in the air we breathe and the water we drink and the food we eat and...ETC.
"If it doesn't make you fat it'll kill you."
Yes, the whole thing was controversial..and again,
I only care about whether they (5P) lied and if so why.

Also, I agree with Oliver about being concerned with menthol
and perhaps cinnamon <---which I always misspell
cause if it melts plastic it makes me wonder what it can do to my lungs. But I rarely vape cinnamon anyway...maybe a little
with some dessert juice
But I never eat the other half's rice pudding 'cause she puts loads of cinnamon on it

 

[HazyShades]

If I were a 5p exec this would sound like a cop out, but I'm not, so just take it as my guess. Employees answering questions that they don't fully understand. Or without the proper information. Happens to me all the time with sales people who don't really know what they're selling.

All that aside, it will be companies like 5p who took the business side of the industry seriously that MIGHT survive. They seem like the types who would have full manufacturing facilities, coded batch storage, and all that necessary stuff. Not my favorite type of liquid company, but it's closest to what the FDA would allow. Single ratio stuff in consistent packaging and consistent product. If the regs aren't stopped, those are the types of liquid companies that have the best chance of survival. And if you think it's expensive now...

Undoubtedly you are correct. The more traditionally businesslike the business the likelier their chance of surviving this.

However if an untrained REPRESENTATIVE of my business
for whatever the reason misinformed my customers,
even if their lapse had not caused my company to be sued
their butts would be fired on the spot.

 

[HazyShades]

Undoubtedly you are correct. The more traditionally businesslike the business the likelier their chance of surviving this.

However if an untrained REPRESENTATIVE of my business
for whatever the reason misinformed my customers,
even if their lapse had not caused my company to be sued
their butts would be fired on the spot.

I've already made the comparison but I'll do it again.
I used to work in the head shop industry.
When Florida Statute 893.147: Use, possession, manufacture, delivery, transportation, advertisement, or retail sale of drug paraphernalia.—
was made law, the space cadet run small shops
mostly were either prosecuted and put down by force
or they went of of business.
The larger more businesslike shops with much inventory
found it prudent to and could afford to hire legal personnel
to train the employees on how to not get popped.

Many of the latter stores and paraphernalia manufacturers are still in business and have diversified to include records and other such
or pipes and tobacco products (LOL)

I suspect a similar phenomena will occur with vaping

 

[The Ocelot]

I'm not very worried about diacetyl,
there are worse toxins in the air we breathe and the water we drink and the food we eat and...ETC.
"If it doesn't make you fat it'll kill you."
Yes, the whole thing was controversial..and again,
I only care about whether they (5P) lied and if so why.

Also, I agree with Oliver about being concerned with menthol
and perhaps cinnamon <---which I always misspell
cause if it melts plastic it makes me wonder what it can do to my lungs. But I rarely vape cinnamon anyway...maybe a little
with some dessert juice
But I never eat the other half's rice pudding 'cause she puts loads of cinnamon on it

My lungs aren't made of polycarbonate or acrylic, so I'm not worried.

 

[HazyShades]

My lungs aren't made of polycarbonate or acrylic, so I'm not worried.

Since as I said I don't do or don't do much cinnamon
I'm not worried either.
But I'm not very worried about vaping custards, butters,
condensed milks or creams either.
"Today is a good a day to die as any"

However those cilia are sensitive to solvents.
If it can cause a tank to crack it can burn your cilia.

 

[The Ocelot]

Since as I said I don't do or don't do much cinnamon
I'm not worried either.
But I'm not very worried about vaping custards, butters,
condensed milks or creams either.
"Today is a good a day to die as any"

However those cilia are sensitive to solvents.
If it can cause a tank to crack it can burn your cilia.

After 40 years of menthol cigarettes...cilia aren't high on my list of things I have control over.

 

[coldgin96]

Five Pawns.