Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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But all the FDA needs to do is convince the Judge they came to that conclusion using reasonable interpretation of what Congress "might" have meant at the time of TCA.
And if there are no clear cut and obvious contradictions, it's basically a "tie" and the FDA will always win in a tie.
I don't think this bodes well for us.
But all the FDA needs to do is convince the Judge they came to that conclusion using reasonable interpretation of what Congress "might" have meant at the time of TCA.
And if there are no clear cut and obvious contradictions, it's basically a "tie" and the FDA will always win in a tie.
I don't think this bodes well for us.
In this case, the judge could tell the FDA NYET! and force it to be tossed where it belongs. Right back in Congress' lap.
When the TCA was first drafted, e-cigarettes weren't even on the horizon yet. So much like the technological advances that have been made that quickly outpaced Congressional laws, the judge may very well throw the FDAs regulations out and force Congress to address the issue.
That it could. However.... As this is an election year, there's no way they'd get to it until next year. It would give us a slight reprieve in which to swamp the newly elected Congresscritters with our views.
Excellent point and with how long it takes Congress to agree on something...
I'm sorry - I couldn't resist...
This can is surely better kicked down the road, regardless if the next can is worse than this one. At least we could stock up on newer tech for a longer period of time before we can't buy future tech.
I can't see it being worse, but it would give more time for research to emerge that could sway the outcome...
I'll reiterate. For some of us (like me), e-liquid is what hurts more than the gear. I can go out and buy enough gear to last me till I die. And yes, I can stock up on liquid but it has a shelf life. It doesn't last forever and I dont care what anyone says. Freezing extends the shelf life but not forever. Nothing lasts forever. And sadly, I am super finicky with my juice to the point where there are only two I actually enjoy. And yes, I've sampled hundreds of flavors. So I have zero confidence I can DIY anything I would like (not to mention DIY ingredients have a shelf life). So to me, it is the limits on liquid that hurt me far more than gear.
And let's not get into an argument about liquid shelf life. We've been there countless times and we've all formed our own opinions so I don't want to go down that road again. Thank you.
And let's not get into an argument about liquid shelf life. We've been there countless times and we've all formed our own opinions so I don't want to go down that road again. Thank you.
The FDA argues in one of its initial briefs that Congress contemplated that the FSPTCA would cover e-cigarettes because, prior to enactment, some random congressman expressed concern that the statute might impair future e-cigarette development. Nicopure's lawyers didn't address or attempt to rebut that point in its reply brief and the FDA hit it again twice in its most recent brief.
I only had 2 I liked before I started DIY 6 weeks ago: I now have more than I can count that I like and on't miss the premium stuff I was buying, or the cost (DIY costs me 10 - 20 times less per bottle/recipe). I have clones of the ones I liked before I started DIY, that while not exactly the same are pretty darn good and I have umpteen other flavors that are great as well.I'll reiterate. For some of us (like me), e-liquid is what hurts more than the gear. I can go out and buy enough gear to last me till I die. And yes, I can stock up on liquid but it has a shelf life. It doesn't last forever and I dont care what anyone says. Freezing extends the shelf life but not forever. Nothing lasts forever. And sadly, I am super finicky with my juice to the point where there are only two I actually enjoy. And yes, I've sampled hundreds of flavors. So I have zero confidence I can DIY anything I would like (not to mention DIY ingredients have a shelf life). So to me, it is the limits on liquid that hurt me far more than gear.
And let's not get into an argument about liquid shelf life. We've been there countless times and we've all formed our own opinions so I don't want to go down that road again. Thank you.
You might be surprised by what you could make and enjoy (and how much you could save) if you tried DIY (assuming you haven't yet). If I can't buy nic when my stash runs out, or it goes bad before it runs out, and I can't buy more nic so be it and I will cross that bridge when I get there but at this point I don't have to buy much besides flavoring*, batteries and wick/wire for the foreseeable future.
*I have tried unflavored nic/pg/vg and I could vape that without flavoring if I had to.
I guess what's "clear and obvious" is a matter of opinion but, IMO, the FDA's position on "intended use" is self-contradictory and inconsistent with what the statute actually says.But all the FDA needs to do is convince the Judge they came to that conclusion using reasonable interpretation of what Congress "might" have meant at the time of TCA.
And if there are no clear cut and obvious contradictions, it's basically a "tie" and the FDA will always win in a tie.
I don't think this bodes well for us.
I could stock up on my favorite juice just the same. I just don't trust it will last 30 years (if I live that much longer). The same would hold true for DIY ingredients. To me, the worry of long term management of liquid becomes as great as quitting smoking/vaping. I'd just expend my energy on the latter. Don't know how successful I would be but I'd pick a path and go whole hog.
BTW, as painful as not smoking or vaping is, there are, in fact, some pluses to that (besides health). For one, it would be nice not to be tethered to anything. Think of the time/effort/expense to either habit. As much as I praise vaping, it still requires messing around with. I've gone my entire adult life (and beyond) not knowing what it is like not to be attached to a cigarette or e-cig. And I'm not young anymore. I have no idea what that is like. I mean, who ever heard of jumping into the car to go someplace without making sure you have your pack of cigarettes or a fully charged battery? Not me.
More good news. (?) I just read this at FB.
Patricia I.Kovacevic @patriciakova 2h2 hours ago
Great news! @NicoPureLabs et al v @US_FDA et al oral arguments advanced to October 11 instead of 19.
Patricia I.Kovacevic @patriciakova 2h2 hours ago
Great news! @NicoPureLabs et al v @US_FDA et al oral arguments advanced to October 11 instead of 19.
Isn't this FDA thing 2 different arguments? One in whether they are legally allowed to do what they did with the Deeming regulations, and the other being the proof that backs up their statements about juice being toxic and carcinogenic, and having no proof as a smoking cessation product. Or any safety statement comparing vaping devices and smoking accidents and deaths? In 10 years, what have they learned that allows them to severely restrict or choke the vaping industry? There does not seem to be any valid argument for the FDA to do what they are doing. And with all the proof they have about tobacco, why is it still on the market? The FDA can say that tobacco was thoroughly tested, well did it pass?
Cigarettes are still on the market because they funnel billions of tax dollars to state governments. They are still on the market because they create millions of sick people every year who need medicine. I hate the cynical nature of those statements but that is WHY cigarettes are allowed to exist and it is WHAT makes vapor products so darn scary for some who cannot see beyond their own bottom line to the point: saving lives.
No clue. Those are the words of Patricia I.Kovacevic. I would think that if she feels it is great news, we should as well.
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