Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[MikeE3]

I've often wondered why BT hasn't come out with juice (or even a closed system vapor product) that has the MAOIs and minor alkaloids.

There are two things that prevent an easy transition from smoking to vaping: Vapor from a liquid will never taste like the smoke from a cigarette, and the lack of the MAOIs and minor alkaloids. The latter is why most people trying to switch still have cravings for a real cigarette for a while.

I would have thought that BT, with all the research they've done over the past decades would understand this.

Just a few random thought on that.

• Costs are higher per unit to include the minor alkaloids.
• Makes it more difficult for a hardcore smoker to make the switch
• vaping doesn't replace smoking in the long game

Addendum: Just heard India is the 2nd largest cigarette market and they just banned all e-cigs "immediately". Any vendor with a stock of them are supposed to turn them over to the police.

 

[Rossum]

Does the IQOS put out the same aroma as burning tobacco, like will it stink up the room and cling to your clothes and so forth?

IMO, no, not nearly as much.

Of course unlike vaping, it isn't going to make you smell like you just spend all day in the back of a Cinnabon.

 

[Bronze]

Just heard India is the 2nd largest cigarette market and they just banned all e-cigs "immediately". Any vendor with a stock of them are supposed to turn them over to the police.

With all these governments coming down on vaping it reminds me of a Pink Floyd movie. Like the marching hammers scene.

 

[Bronze]

 

[dreamvaper]

Year 2028,
London, UK
Public school
A group of 7 year-olds in between the lessons:

- Mike, Mike, tell us the story again Pleeeeease!
- Which one?
- Story about your Baddest Azz Father of course!
- Oh, that one, all right, so:
My family used to live in Michigan in 2019, I wasn't even born yet.
My dad was caught with a vaping mod and Five bottles of e-juice and sent to a local prison for 6 months,
and no early release cause in the prison he was caught simulating vaping with some old Toothpaste Powder!
- Wooow! Mike, he's such a villain, 5 bottles and the powder! No sh@t!

 

[Doffy]

I've often wondered why BT hasn't come out with juice (or even a closed system vapor product) that has the MAOIs and minor alkaloids.

There are two things that prevent an easy transition from smoking to vaping: Vapor from a liquid will never taste like the smoke from a cigarette, and the lack of the MAOIs and minor alkaloids. The latter is why most people trying to switch still have cravings for a real cigarette for a while.

I would have thought that BT, with all the research they've done over the past decades would understand this.

2 things about MAOIs

under a certain blood level (which is MUCH higher than vaping WTA, or smoking even 100/day provide) there is no inhibition (the "I" in MAOI, the mechanism of action)
IF you hit therapeautic levels. You need to follow a strict diet. People on a level of MAOIs which have any physical effect cannot eat cheese for example, it would kill them dead

Minor Alkaloids are very important though

 

[Katya]

Minor Alkaloids are very important though

Right. There's some magic sauce in the whole tobacco leaf that does something to the brain that nic alone doesn't. I'm not sure anybody knows what it is. It's been debated here, hotly, since 2007. The person who figures it out will be very, very rich in a very short time.

Some people need mostly that major alkaloid--nicotine--in conjunction with the mouth-to-lung and inhaling and exhaling pleasure and switch instantly. Others struggle for years and can't quite quit smoking. They often need snus or dissolvable tobacco or WTA eliquids to scratch the itch.

 

[Doffy]

Right. There's some magic sauce in the whole tobacco leaf that does something to the brain that nic alone doesn't. I'm not sure anybody knows what it is. It's been debated here, hotly, since 2007. The person who figures it out will be very, very rich in a very short time.

Some people need mostly that major alkaloid--nicotine--in conjunction with the mouth-to-lung and inhaling and exhaling pleasure and switch instantly. Others struggle for years and can't quite quit smoking. They often need snus or dissolvable tobacco or WTA eliquids to scratch the itch.

yep

this is my DIY choc coated coffee beans with WTA. I also use snus, and vape WTA

 

[Katya]

Coffee, cig and a piece of chocolate. I remember that well. Bliss.

 

[Doffy]

Coffee, cig and a piece of chocolate. I remember that well. Bliss.

i use a mould now, for more chocolate

the pg/vg can shock the chocolate, dark works best

better to go a little weak, and eat a few, than 1 strong bean

 

[CMD-Ky]

Anyway, that was the idea and it was a good one. Hope I did a decent job of explaining the highlights.

More than "decent", far more than decent. How far we have descended from any concept of "limited government" now and the ruling class (and the Puritans) are asking for more power. I pity my child, she will never really know what it was once like to be free.

There are times that I am disgusted by the ECF. The weeping and wailing about vaping. This vaping over reach of the local, state and federal government is a mere blip on the radar tracking governmental incursions into our daily lives "for the greater good", of course.

 

[Doffy]

 

[Rossum]

2 things about MAOIs

under a certain blood level (which is MUCH higher than vaping WTA, or smoking even 100/day provide) there is no inhibition (the "I" in MAOI, the mechanism of action)
IF you hit therapeautic levels. You need to follow a strict diet. People on a level of MAOIs which have any physical effect cannot eat cheese for example, it would kill them dead

Agreed, tobacco does not provide that level, since plenty of even the heaviest smokers eat cheese. Yet we know that some of these substances have a synergistic effect with nicotine that dramatically increases dependence, and it's not at all inconceivable that this happens at doses lower than those normally considered "therapeutic".

 

[Doffy]

Agreed, tobacco does not provide that level, since plenty of even the heaviest smokers eat cheese. Yet we know that some of these substances have a synergistic effect with nicotine that dramatically increases dependence, and it's not at all inconceivable that this happens at doses lower than those normally considered "therapeutic".

They might play a role. But that is not on Monoamine oxidase. Do you know which ones are in tobacco? Listing them by name would be less misleading.

It's mostly semantics, like not calling a MOSFET mod a mech. I'm just a pedant with this at times

 

[Rossum]

Right. There's some magic sauce in the whole tobacco leaf that does something to the brain that nic alone doesn't. I'm not sure anybody knows what it is. It's been debated here, hotly, since 2007.

Does anyone here think that the BT companies haven't researched this quite extensively and most likely have a pretty good handle on it?

The person who figures it out will be very, very rich in a very short time.

The window on that opportunity seems to be closing with PMTA deadline. WTA liquids helped scratch the itch for me early on, but it seems they aren't the complete answer either. Aroma, WholeCig, and the others go got into that space do not appear to have gotten "very rich". Then again, if a person isn't on an e-cig forum, they've probably never heard of WTA...

 

[Doffy]

@Rossum

apologies Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats

my bad

i'd still like to know specifics

 

[englishmick]

Right. There's some magic sauce in the whole tobacco leaf that does something to the brain that nic alone doesn't. I'm not sure anybody knows what it is. It's been debated here, hotly, since 2007. The person who figures it out will be very, very rich in a very short time.

Maybe someone already figured it out. Maybe they bought a big stake in Juul and it's already on the streets. Could explain all those addicted teens. Probably not but I wouldn't put anything past BT.

 

[Rossum]

@Rossum
apologies Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats
my bad

Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to. It also explains why so many people who've switched to vaping straight nicotine report that their cravings when they're in a situation where they can't vape are far lower intensity than when they smoked and couldn't.

 

[AttyPops]

My cravings for nic aren't as strong, but vape-nic doesn't seem last as long so I puff more. It's weird compared to smoking. There's also more...IDK...endorphin effect or whatever...from smoking (if I remember correctly). I think. It's been 9 years since I dual used to compare.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Just an FYI, DIYorDie (Youtube channel) has posted two interesting videos lately - one interviewing the guy who made a reddit post re: the stuff going around on the street, and another discussing the flavor ban etc (which is 1.5 hours long). I listened to both while painting yesterday and found them very interesting. I know a lot of people here aren't a fan of his and to be honest I'm really not either, but these were quite good, IMO.

I won't link to them, because he uses some strong language. Easy to find if anyone is interested.