Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

Again "technically took effect on April 26th."

So 'technically' the post office is illegally shipping vape supplies - NO complaints from me !

But when the 'dick heads' who passed this bought and paid for legislation will take the USPS to court, like they did with the FDA, is anyone's guess ?

No. Nothing "technically" took effect on April 26th.

Look... Here's how it works.

Congress can pass a piece of Legislation amending the Jenkins Act to include "e-Cigarettes" or an "e-liquid" under some Statutory Definition of what an "e-Cigarette/e-liquid" is. Congress has the Power to do this.

And Congress can Instruct the USPS to Promulgate a Rule to Ban the shipment of "e-Cigarettes" and "e-Liquids". They can even put a Deadline, like 120 Days from the Passage of the Legislation, on to when the USPS is supposed to have the Rule Finalized and then Published in the Federal Registry. They have that Power Also.

But until the USPS comes up with a Rule, and the Rule goes thru the Rulemaking Process, and then the Rule is Published in the Federal Registry, nothing has changed shipping-wise for the USPS.

Now Congress can Stamp their Feet and Hold their Breath till they turn Blue. But that's neither Here nor There. The Long and the Short of it is that Everything is how it was until the USPS Publishes something in the Federal Registry. That is the Power that the USPS has.

All those Dates like April 26th came from the 120 Day limit that the USPS was supposed to have a Rule Published by. And are Not Legally Binding.

 

[K9Luvr]

Too early for me to do any deep thinking. So, as an "individual", I can still get vape liquid delivered to my home in small quantities?

I’ve gotten 2 large juice deliveries in the last month.

 

[Katya]

But until the USPS comes up with a Rule, and the Rule goes thru the Rulemaking Process, and then the Rule is Published in the Federal Registry, nothing has changed shipping-wise for the USPS.

That's been my understanding too. So far, nothing has changed since Feb.19, 2021:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...1-03393/treatment-of-e-cigarettes-in-the-mail

 

[zoiDman]

That's been my understanding too. So far, nothing has changed since Feb.19, 2021:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...1-03393/treatment-of-e-cigarettes-in-the-mail

Yeah... And when the USPS used the Statutory Definition of what an "ENDS" as they were Instructed by Congress...

Definition of ENDS

The proposed rule uses the definition of ENDS contained in 15 U.S.C. 375(7), as amended by section 602(a)(1)(C) of the Act. Under this definition, an ENDS is any electronic device that, through an aerosolized solution, delivers nicotine, flavor, or any other substance to the user inhaling from the device. Examples include e-cigarettes, e-hookahs, e-cigars, vape pens, advanced refillable personal vaporizers, and electronic pipes. Provisions relating to ENDS also extend to any component, liquid, part, or accessory of an ENDS, regardless of whether sold separately from the device. Despite the name, an item can qualify as an ENDS without regard to whether it contains or is intended to be used to deliver nicotine; liquids that do not actually contain nicotine can still qualify as ENDS, as can devices, parts, components, and accessories capable of or intended for use with non-nicotine-containing liquids.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...1-03393/treatment-of-e-cigarettes-in-the-mail

... that is when a Huge Problem was seen by people who are Not involved with a Nicotine Market.

Wording like "or any other substance to the user inhaling from the device" and "an item can qualify as an ENDS without regard to whether it contains or is intended to be used to deliver nicotine; liquids that do not actually contain nicotine can still qualify as ENDS, as can devices, parts, components, and accessories capable of or intended for use with non-nicotine-containing liquids." may sound Cute to an Anti-THR Lawyer or a CA Senator in late stage Mental Decline.

But it also just threw a Net over another Market. And that Market Didn't like having their Baby thrown out with Someone Else's bathwater. So they Pushed Back.

And that is the Major Reason why the USPS Hasn't Published a Final Rule. Because they are now trying to Figure Out what Exactly is to be Banned. And what Exactly Isn't.

 

[thanswr1]

And that is the Major Reason why the USPS Hasn't Published a Final Rule. Because they are now trying to Figure Out what Exactly is to be Banned. And what Exactly Isn't.

Surely, you're not suggesting Congress didn't know what the hell they were voting for?

Pardon me ...........

I'm breaking myself up today.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Oh what a tangled web we weave…

Good luck.

 

[zoiDman]

Oh what a tangled web we weave…

Good luck.

Yeah... All to make it Harder for People to Quit Smoking. And to Stop Kids from Doing what they are Going to Do Anyway.

 

[SlowTalker]

ENDS are like a series of tubes....

 

[WorksForMe]

Surely, you're not suggesting Congress didn't know what the hell they were voting for?

Pardon me ...........

I'm breaking myself up today.

They had to vote for the bill so they could find out what was in it.

.

 

[Territoo]

They had to vote for the bill so they could find out what was in it.

.

You dont think they actually read those 5000 pages, do you?

 

[Vapeon4Life]

You dont think they actually read those 5000 pages, do you?

I bet on this:
1. They have one or more people who are paid to read it.
2. These people who are paid to read 'may' or 'may not' be giving their boss the full facts
3. The consequences of voting one way or the other on the piece of legislation is probably not fully or accurately understood by the congressman who is voting on it.

 

[CMD-Ky]

You dont think they actually read those 5000 pages, do you?

The jerks we have most likely didn't bother to read the Executive Summary. Just keep the money flowing, who cares who is hurt, just so long as the ruling class gets the cash.

 

[WorksForMe]

You dont think they actually read those 5000 pages, do you?

This is politics. They don't just read a bill, decide if they like it, and then vote yes or no. There's lots of reasons why they vote how they do. Sometimes their party leadership tells them how to vote. Sometimes lobbyists are padding their pockets. Sometime they vote for bills just because the other party is against it. There's always deals to be made that are more important than what's best for the country.


.

 

[zoiDman]

This is politics. They don't just read a bill, decide if they like it, and then vote yes or no. There's lots of reasons why they vote how they do. Sometimes their party leadership tells them how to vote. Sometimes lobbyists are padding their pockets. Sometime they vote for bills just because the other party is against it. There's always deals to be made that are more important than what's best for the country.


.

And sometimes things like this PACT Act/USPS Ban get tacked onto something that Has to Pass.

Like an Appropriations Bill.

 

[WorksForMe]

And sometimes things like this PACT Act/USPS Ban get tacked onto something that Has to Pass.

Like an Appropriations Bill.

Yeah, that's how things get passed that could never pass in a stand alone bill.

.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, that's how things get passed that could never pass in a stand alone bill.

.

Or when a Member of Congress/Party doesn't want to take the Singular Heat over something.

Can't tell you How Many People have told me that Trump was the one who Banned USPS Shipping. So I guess the Above Tech works.

 

[Territoo]

The nicotine tax bill, which they couldn't pass on its its own last year, is attached to the infrastructure bill. Now if that had been a real infrastructure bill, not a 3.5T slush fund, Congress would have taken all kinds of flak for not passing it. As it is, I believe, that even if they find a compromise, (a big IF), the nicotine tax will still be a part of it.

 

[WorksForMe]

Wow. We've gotten really off topic.

.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Wow. We've gotten really off topic.
.

Its a wide ranging topic - So to refresh what it was about - and where we've gone.........

The Deeming Rule: A Brief History of FDA Vaping Regulations

"The first version was a long document—499 double-spaced pages—and as readers made their way through it, what had been rumored became reality: the FDA would impose a hard stop on the independent vaping industry two years after the rule took effect on Aug. 8, 2016. The agency would require submission of complex and expensive applications to prove that existing products were “appropriate for the protection of public health.” And there was no assurance that those applications would be approved."

"The FDA admitted that the regulations would cause more than 99 percent of vaping manufacturers to “exit the market,” and that the cost of a Premarket Tobacco Application (PMTA) would be higher than all except a few companies (almost exclusively Big Tobacco companies) would be able to afford.

In this article, we’ll examine the origins of the FDA’s vaping regulations, especially the forces that shaped the Deeming Rule and its implementation..........."


Sottera vs. FDA: NJOY saves the vaping industry

"In April of 2009, e-cig manufacturer Smoking Everywhere filed a lawsuit against the FDA, and soon after Sottera (later known as NJOY) joined the suit. The companies claimed the FDA had no jurisdiction over the products because they were tobacco products, not drug delivery devices."

"Eleven months later, the federal appeals court upheld Judge Leon’s decision, ruling that unless therapeutic claims were being made, the FDA could only regulate e-cigarettes as tobacco products. The FDA did not appeal further, and in April 2011 announced it would regulate e-cigs as tobacco products."

The vaping future remains cloudy

"Whether the FDA admits its error in attempting to prohibit and restrict products that could save millions of lives, or instead continues to push back against tobacco harm reduction, the vaping genie is out of the bottle. It will be impossible to put it back. To save its own credibility and authority, the FDA will at some point in the near future have to acknowledge vaping as a low-risk alternative to smoking, or wind up presiding over an ineffective prohibition and a robust black market."

See whole article here:
The Deeming Rule: A Brief History of FDA Vaping Regulations

 

[CMD-Ky]

Can't tell you How Many People have told me that Trump was the one who Banned USPS Shipping. So I guess the Above Tech works.

Did you believe them?