You can sue over anything.
And you just made my case for FULL ingredient labeling.
thanks.
Diketone thread #411
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And you just made my case for FULL ingredient labeling.
thanks.
I did? Where.
I do wish to be clear that for recreational products, I do not favor mandatory disclosure. While I would for sure appreciate them, I would not want to live in a world where it was mandatory unless I had the right to remain cynical and vocally undermining such a mandate.
PG/VG, nicotine with a warning
Artificial flavoring, are these not the ingredients of ejuice ?
# 16 Guidance for Industry: A Food Labeling Guide (6. Ingredient Lists)
It is clear that the industry will not do it on it's own.
I agree in an ideal world mandatory would not be needed but our world is far from ideal.
I know of vendors in industry that do (what I think of as) full disclosure on ingredients. So industry does do it.
If you think it needs to be industry wide, then I would reason that you also think it must be a mandate.
And that is where I see it falling apart or going into direction of "we are far from ideal world." Cause the ones currently doing disclosure might not be doing it up to a standard that FDA approves of. And even that is debatable. Like they could be surpassing it, but because FDA may require testing on a whole bunch of other items, perhaps they lower their disclosure standards so they have money left over for all the other things that require money/resources to fulfill regulator's demands. This being a worse case scenario type thing, but I think not entirely off base. More likely is that say Vuse sets the standard and all companies have to match their level of disclosure on all facets of what FDA deems necessary to disclose to them before product could (possibly) be approved. And let's say Dr. F. sees that standard as not being exact enough or in error in some fashion in determining (precise) levels of diketones? Or some other scientific type pokes holes in the tests. Then what? IMO, the then what is then there is more fine tuning and more justification for even higher entry fee into the market.
I also think there is enough evidence (some on this thread) that shows it possible that while FDA may get full disclosure, the consumer may not. Disclosure to consumer could be "this product may contain diketones." That's disclosure to the consumer. Might not be perfect amount of disclosure, but remember we are far from an ideal world. So, that may be all you get with regulations. You can now make 'informed' decision to not vape that product that may (or may not) contain diketones. I'm thinking overwhelming majority will vape it and trust FDA has it at a safe limit. If lawsuits occur (suggesting it is still too much), then FDA just lowers the limit, and proceeds along.
Anyway, bottom line is that full disclosure does exist in the industry right now and the version of full disclosure via highly mandatory regulations won't necessarily make that beneficial to consumers. Ya know, cause we aren't in a perfect world.
Perhaps you could, but when juice contains nicotine, that fact is not usually hidden.
I would find vaping to be rather pointless without the nicotine, and I'm rather confident it would not have been an adequate substitute for my 2PAD habit without it. I still reach for the nicotine gum when I'm stuck somewhere I can't vape (rare, but it happens).
Would you find vaping pointless without diketones? Would you find some other means to get your diketone fix if you were stuck somewhere you couldn't vape?
I don't know for a fact that diketones cause harm in vaping. I simply find it unconscionable for vendors to sell liquids that contain high levels of this stuff without disclosure when they're suspected of causing the kinds of problems that have been alleged. It also puzzles me what could possibly motivate anyone to defend such practices.
I think you know me well enough by now to understand that I'm vehemently opposed government prohibitions, mandates, or regulations of any kind. But they're coming anyway, and the fact that the industry didn't clean up its act with respect to these compounds is just one more point they can use to justify them.
No, because the industry did clean up its act with respect to that. When was the last time a vapor product tested positive for diethylene glycol?
The industry didn't clean up its act with respect to these compounds ?
Cigarette Ingredients | R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company
Yeah, let's compare the vapor industry to the traditional, combustible cigarette industry. That'll help.
And your so sought after DX / diketone free replacement of choice Butryic Acid Food Additives, Artificial and Natural flavors and Preservatives http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/n-butyric_acid.htm
Yeah, let's compare the vapor industry to the traditional, combustible cigarette industry. That'll help.
Were is the ecig industry being categorized with the FDA, food, smoking cessation, NRT or tobacco ?
I see it as a subcategory of Tobacco. While not accepted as such, it is THR. I agree that it isn't helpful to the vaping cause to lump it in so completely with tobacco, but it's not food, cessation, or NRT (with its implication of drug, device, or combo product) either.
Has the FDA defined the THR category at all, or are they hoping they can perpetually ignore it?
Thanks, but I don't need a replacement. I'm addicted to nicotine, not to buttery flavors.
Diketone is a distraction, easily avoidable by users, this distraction takes minds away from the core matter. This rhetoric is a classic, taking the mass away from the reality, leading to conflicts between people who otherwise would be in peace and mutual respect, while the instigating minority is collecting the majority of material profits at the cost of people's life and misery.
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Honestly, I don't think that's the big problem compared to how the states are taxing ejuice ............................
I could neutralize a dab of that acid easily with my PG with a ph of 10, might be Tasty!
Don't get distracted... Butyric Acid is also avoidable!
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