DIY Flavoring Thread - Part 2

[Shilo]

The flavor concentrates list Ingredients: Water, Organic Gum Acacia, Organic Flavors.
The extracts list ingredients: Water,Organic Ethyl Alcohol, Natural and Organic Plant and Vegetable Extracts
The flavoring for coffee beans Ingredients : Organic Flavors, Vegetable Glycerin, and Organic Ethyl Alcohol.

Which type was bought?

On another note, I noticed that some of the flavors say contains sugar in the extra info area.

 

[stashbldr]

Wow Kurt ... thank you SO much for looking into this and for your posting. And thank you so much to Salemgold. The label on my Butterscotch3X bottle says the ingredients are "organic ethyl alcohol, vegetable glycerin and natural flavoring". Even though the ingredients do not say gum arabic the way you described what could happen is exactly what did happen to the plastic measuring cup.

I won't be vaping it. Thank you!!!

 

[Rlafontaine1971]

Ry4 double 7%
Vanilla Bourbon 2%
HC caramel 1%
Malt extract 1.5%
3 drops of AP

is

Wicked Good...

 

[stashbldr]

also ... I ordered from NF's "coffee and tea flavoring", which it also says on my bottle.

 

[Jimi D.]

There are no chemical residues because there are no chemical solvents used. Many of the organic flavoring ingredients are derived this way first before being incorporated in to water based or oil based organic flavor concentrate. To make the organic flavor concentrates water soluble you must emulsify the oils that were derived and separated from the extraction process or steam distilling and that usually involves using an organic gum or starch and under high pressure and shearing. This process forces the oils and gum's to be broken into very small particles and cling to one another with out reforming into there basic building blocks again. The entire process is safe and effective for producing the finest organic flavor oils, flavor concentrates, and flavor extracts. Natures Flavours has pioneered many of these methods for producing these organic products. We are proud of our flavorings, spices, coffees, and all our organic products. We hope they bring you much enjoyment and satisfaction.


This is from Nature flavors site. It looks like they use a gum to extract the flavors

 

[salemgold]

Wow Kurt ... thank you SO much for looking into this and for your posting. And thank you so much to Salemgold. The label on my Butterscotch3X bottle says the ingredients are "organic ethyl alcohol, vegetable glycerin and natural flavoring". Even though the ingredients do not say gum arabic the way you described what could happen is exactly what did happen to the plastic measuring cup.

I won't be vaping it. Thank you!!!

Me too. If Kurt would not vape it, that is good enough for me. Obviously there must have been something in the flavor for coffee beans that made that happen.

 

[stashbldr]

Maybe this is why NF has said that their flavorings are not for inhalation?

 

[stashbldr]

Me too. If Kurt would not vape it, that is good enough for me.

Yep, that is how I feel too Salem, I have followed many of Kurt's posts for a long time, I consider him an expert and if he says it then that ends it for me.

 

[Rlafontaine1971]

Still think we should get some clarification from NF, I don't believe that Gum Arabic is in all of their flavors. They have multiple extraction processes and it would depend on the flavor and the carrier (water, oil, alchohol).

I also think it has to be on the label. I wonder if theres a way to test for it? Starting to think maybe some of Capellas flavors might need to be tested.

 

[Shilo]

At least one very popular vendor I won't name uses these almost exclusively. As far as flavorings go everyone should make their own decision as to what they feel comfortable vaping and what they don't. As far as I know none of the other flavors we use have been deemed safe for inhalation either. The gum listed in the ingredients, I think, is different than the gum Kurt mentioned---not sure if that matters or changes
anything.

Edit: Same gum goes by different names

 

[Jimi D.]

My understanding is that they extract oils and make them water soluble with the organic gum. The coffee bean line has the alcohol to speed up the penetration process. So does all the flavor extracts have the gum?

 

[Gloria]

Hey Gloria, I has the CDS and it's ok, but Capella's flavors all have this undertone that I don't like in my juices. It must be the PG they use or something because it comes thru in every flavor of theirs that I've tried. I do love it in my morning coffee sometimes tho. I've also tried TPA's Cinnamon Sugar Cookie but not fond of it either. Thanks for your insight!

So sorry Bov!! I somehow missed this post of yours.

Well...now you've dashed my hopes for TPA's Cinnamon Sugar Cookie. LOL So is this a hot cinnamon flavor too? I really was expecting this one to be a sweet bakery type flavor.

 

[Jimi D.]

Now I'm thinking about what's in my Wife's Capella's Cinnamon Danish Swirl. I tell her it tastes like plastic.

 

[Rlafontaine1971]

Also thinking thinking theres a big difference using Gum Arabic in an extraction process and the way it's used comercially as a food additive. It can be added to a flavor oil (theres a benefit in that, but not in alchohol). It's actually added to alot of soft drinks, food, dairy products. It has to be on the label, just read that. It would either be listed as Gum Arabic or E414. Wish I could talk my kids into researching all this crap.

 

[stashbldr]

All I know is it etched itself into the plastic of my measuring cup .. it didnt just coat the cup, it etched itself INTO it. And it did it in less that the 10 seconds that it was in, and out, of that cup. Anything that can do that is scarey IMO. Here's a picture of it again:

 

[Rlafontaine1971]

So sorry Bov!! I somehow missed this post of yours.

Well...now you've dashed my hopes for TPA's Cinnamon Sugar Cookie. LOL So is this a hot cinnamon flavor too? I really was expecting this one to be a sweet bakery type flavor.

I have TPA's cinnamon sugar cookie, it's pretty good. I forgot I had it until I read your post.

 

[Kurt]

I was under the impression that the flavor in question was Nature's Flavors butterscotch (not butterscotch 3x). The ingredients clearly stated that it contains gum arabic. I did not look into coffee or tea flavors.

Butterscotch Flavor Concentrate

Gum arabic has been considered component non grata for a long time in ECF, although the last I saw it being discussed was a couple years ago. While I am not 100% sure that this is what happened chemically in this case, it sure looks like it was to me.

I also avoid vaping flavors that have natural sugars or other plant compounds in them. Whole food extracts are great in drinks or baking, but not as inhalants. Of course a "these are not for inhalation" statement is a CYA for the company. But in this case, with a gum present, it is true. Not all their flavors will have gums, but some do. Avoid those entirely, I say, and use the others with caution and very conservatively. Flavors are a great sea of unknown chemistry, in terms of physiological effects of vaping. Less, or none at all, is safest, both for you and your gear.

If, on the other hand, this indeed happened with a flavor that did not contain a gum, then this is truly puzzling, and something I cannot at this point explain at all.

Thanks for the kind words of support! Glad to offer whatever guidance I can.

 

[Rlafontaine1971]

Just looking at your picture again and thinking (hurts when I do that). I dont see how it could be gum to cover that much of that cup. I'm not saying it isn't, just seems that there would have to be a ton of it in there to get that much coverage and cant see how there would be that much in it even if it were added to bottle, you would taste the gum. Maybe you could send that picture to NF, tell them what you did and ask them if they can provide an explanation for it. I wouldn't mention vaping, I would just say I was doing a reduction to try and make it stronger.

All I know is it etched itself into the plastic of my measuring cup .. it didnt just coat the cup, it etched itself INTO it. And it did it in less that the 10 seconds that it was in, and out, of that cup. Anything that can do that is scarey IMO. Here's a picture of it again:

View attachment 169419

 

[Gloria]

Went to Nature's Flavors website and loaded up a cart with the 4 flavors (below) that I would really like to try from them. 1 oz each would cost $42.88 shipped. Ouch!!!

Banana Foster, Cinnamon, Chocolate Malt & Malt

I'm going to wait to get a reply from another vendor who carries NF flavors to see if he'll add them.

 

[Kurt]

Yep, that is how I feel too Salem, I have followed many of Kurt's posts for a long time, I consider him an expert and if he says it then that ends it for me.

Well thanks for that, both of you! But the best science is peer-reviewed. Better: if Kurt says it, look into it as well, and verify it! I have been wrong on these things before, and my time to fully dig into many things here is limited. But this one, with the gum, seems straight up.