E2 Cartomizer Technical Discussion

[v1John]

Upper thing
...

My suggestion now is to therefore use a permanent, METALLIC, factory pressure-fitted, 'Middle Ring',
that permanently holds the carto components in place, including the silicone inner cap which also insulates.
...

Permanent, metallic, middle ring:
We appear to have suggested ceramic, and I heard something like 'it's used in atomizers', so I see no excuse NOT to use a permanent metallic middle ring. Those are ALSO used in atomizers. I once bought one or two atomizers, and on those they appear to be called 'washers'. That's what the XL needs to permanently hold the silicone insulating stabilizer in place. The only thing is that this XL washer, or ring, would have two small holes lined up with the silicone cap's holes.

 

[v1John]

here it is with wick on and with wick cut off. i think the leak is at the botttom, this clearly shows the inner plug is doing what we want it to do.

How are the wire holes on the ceramics, about the same as the plastics?

I did leave one XL that I refilled capped on both ends laying flat a few hours today. Then I put it on the battery, and noticed liquid in the air stem, so I blew the liquid back up and out through the cup and rings, so apparently a small amount did leak, I just don't know if it's because the inner ring had been disturbed too much or not. This was not the first fill-up, so it's very possible that the inner ring had already been disturbed too much. Still testing.

The silicone ring may still be too close to the wick, right there wher the wick makes a sharp 90 degree turn to go into the slots, the wick has too many materials so close to it, you have the metal carto, the ceramic slots, and the silicone cap, all so close and I'm not sure how it could affect the wick, some material and at various temps. could have hydophobic effects or maybe not, I'm just guessing, but it's important to get all this right before a permanent washer-ring is put on top.

Maybe they should go ahead and start using 1mm wider carto shells now.

 

[br5495]

And that causes so many things to appear to spin or move when threading a bettery to the carto sometimes?

Yep. Look at this image. It is from an old E2, but the XL is the same thing except longer:

The large part you see at the bottom is the post with the "screwdriver" slot in it. The smaller part of the tube just above it is where the grommet goes. This little flexible grommet it the only thing that supports this end of the entire assembly. Its job now is to also to keep the juice in the cartridge.

Edit: The old E2 did not need this grommet to hold the juice. It had a sealer above it to do that. This sealer also held the assembly firmly in place.

 

[v1John]

Yep. Look at this image. It is from an old E2, but the XL is the same thing except longer:
...
The large part you see at the bottom is the post with the "screwdriver" slot in it. The smaller part of the tube just above it is where the grommet goes. This little flexible grommet it the only thing that supports this end of the entire assembly. Its job now is to also to keep the juice in the cartridge.

Edit: The old E2 did not need this grommet to hold the juice. It had a sealer above it to do that.

If the sealer is non toxic and strictly allowed to cure, and minimimally used, I wouldn't be so against it. Even with some sealant, a silicone or metal ring down at the bottom as well could also be used, and the main liquid supply would not even have to know that there was sealant underneath the sealant-liquid barrier ring, which would contain the sealant much like an oreo cookie. One cookie separates the white filler (sealant) from the liquid supply. It would still have to cure first though, before they cap and package, or prefill, the cartos.

Meabwhile...There are other ideas that will sprout with the 1 mm wider carto. The long post appears to be important because it's the air stem. If you can get air from 2 small tubes that go from the cup to the carto shell, then you wouldn't even need the long air stem. Maybe when they make the carto 1mm wider in diamter, they could make it a double walled carto(thicker metal), or the new cartos which are 1mm wider could also be made with a silicone sleeve, instead of the thin vinyl color labels...And e-liquid could also sell drip tips. So many ideas should sprout.

 

[Scottbee]

Remember.. you can't use a rigid member that is attached to the outer shell and the tube/cup for support. Since it (the tube/cup) is part of the center pole for the battery contact, it must be able to move vertically (axially) as the battery is screwed on. Even the Rev2 units with the plastic washer had the capability to "deform" axially when the center pole made contact with the battery.

 

[Scottbee]

There is also room in the XL to go ahead and suggest a filler port, which is a hole on the side of the carto, bigger than a 901 hole, that the little hobby oiler bottles can be used so that syringes are not required.

Scottbee made one like that, I think, but I haven't seen pics, are they on ECF Scottbee? Is there a design you would think could work on the XL cartos?

There are some pics associated with the Dream PV's thread which shows the basics for one way that it could be done. But frankly, for these style cartomizers.. there are simpler and less expensive methods/mechanisms that will yield the same result.

 

[v1John]

Remember.. you can't use a rigid member that is attached to the outer shell and the tube/cup for support. Since it (the tube/cup) is part of the center pole for the battery contact, it must be able to move vertically (axially) as the battery is screwed on. Even the Rev2 units with the plastic washer had the capability to "deform" axially when the center pole made contact with the battery.

Well doing away with the long vertical tube would allow you to move the centerpost without the cup and its own two lateral air intakes knowing about it.

 

[Sylvie]

wow got the ceramic 510 XL today and was suprise to see how long they were in person lol .. it's like two carto into one.. anyhows, being impatient and not doing any of the suggestions (removing primer/dry burn/etc) I filled it up and started using it on 3.7v mod and it works great.. finally getting a good taste, something nothing else would do on the mod. Lots of vapor, major TH with a favorite juice that really didn't have much of one beforehand, and the carto is not even getting hot at all.. Love it so far.. Only problem I had with it was after a couple puffs I get a slight burnt taste, perhaps the primer taste since I didn't follow directions lol. It goes away after I let it sit a couple minutes however, after a couple puffs again it comes back.. no biggy just means I gotta take breaks more often and maybe it will stop after using it for a bit and on the next one I will do as ya'll instructed Either way, glad I read the threads and decided not to wait on getting them.. thanks for all the suggestions and experiments ya'll have done, it has been greatly appreciate by many of us I'm sure!!

Oh I did wonder were the two holes were at first lol.. they looked like a speck of dust and you couldn't see them without getting a flash light out!! Also may be me but, seems like juice tastes better if I leave the clear and white plug off, with it on juice tastes slighty off..

Can't wait to try the Mseries ones now!! THANKS everyone for all the info.

 

[br5495]

Remember.. you can't use a rigid member that is attached to the outer shell and the tube/cup for support. Since it (the tube/cup) is part of the center pole for the battery contact, it must be able to move vertically (axially) as the battery is screwed on. Even the Rev2 units with the plastic washer had the capability to "deform" axially when the center pole made contact with the battery.

I've been aware of that situation all along. The older ones that I have are rigid. In my case, the battery contacts move in the way you describe and that single movement is enough to seat the cartridge on the base on my 510 batteries. My Hello battery has a gap. I suppose the assembly in the cartridge would move if I screwed it down tight enough, but it needs the gap for an air intake.

I assume the stuff in the bottom is a silicone of some type. It is solid, but not near as hard as epoxy. I used a bench grinder to remove enough of the fitting and sealer for a cross section. The sealer fills the base entirely, which includes one side of the insulating grommet. The grommet was destroyed while trying to separate it. This is some pretty tough stuff Scott, and it is not flexible.

 

[br5495]

Oh I did wonder were the two holes were at first lol.. they looked like a speck of dust and you couldn't see them without getting a flash light out!!

Welcome to the "In Crowd". Yeah, them little holes are tough to see, even under a magnifying lamp. Then too, I am blind in one eye, so don't have any depth perception. So, that little needle don't always go where I am looking, heheh.

 

[BanjoMan]

br, have you (or anyone else reading this) done a clean and burn on an XL?

I'm working on both a 510XL and 808DXL right now. It must be the extra wick because these things take forever to dry out. Takes forever to get the water out, then forever again before they stop spewing out white smoke. I'm leaving the filler ring in them and I know that doesn't help.

I need an alternate way of drying these, even if it takes longer. Maybe in the oven on low heat?

 

[badkolo]

br, have you (or anyone else reading this) done a clean and burn on an XL?

I'm working on both a 510XL and 808DXL right now. It must be the extra wick because these things take forever to dry out. Takes forever to get the water out, then forever again before they stop spewing out white smoke. I'm leaving the filler ring in them and I know that doesn't help.

I need an alternate way of drying these, even if it takes longer. Maybe in the oven on low heat?

i did a dry burn but it took a little longer on the xl but all i did was after the wASH was flick out the water over and over until i heard no more water splaterr in my sink, then immediately dry burned it. 10 second bursts and many of them

 

[BanjoMan]

i did a dry burn but it took a little longer on the xl but all i did was after the wASH was flick out the water over and over until i heard no more water splaterr in my sink, then immediately dry burned it. 10 second bursts and many of them

I rinsed mine well then shook and blew them out in the sink, but they still took forever to dry. The silicone filler cap on the 510 (2.5ohm) is badly discolored now. The 808D (2.8ohm) is discolored but not nearly as bad. I only burned them long enough to stop the sputtering and smoking, just like their shorter brothers. Since I have to rinse/burn/repeat with these, next time after the first rinse I'm going to let them air-dry overnight before I do the first dry burn and see if I can cut down on my "orange coil" time.

I might change my mind later on, but right now I'm inclined to say the XL's might not be worth the extra hassle. They hold more liquid, but the way my juice gums up any carto I'm not really getting any more use out of them between cleanings. My older shorter non-ceramic CE2's clean up a lot faster, and taste just as good.

 

[badkolo]

I rinsed mine well then shook and blew them out in the sink, but they still took forever to dry. The silicone filler cap on the 510 (2.5ohm) is badly discolored now. The 808D (2.8ohm) is discolored but not nearly as bad. I only burned them long enough to stop the sputtering and smoking, just like their shorter brothers. Since I have to rinse/burn/repeat with these, next time after the first rinse I'm going to let them air-dry overnight before I do the first dry burn and see if I can cut down on my "orange coil" time.

I might change my mind later on, but right now I'm inclined to say the XL's might not be worth the extra hassle. They hold more liquid, but the way my juice gums up any carto I'm not really getting any more use out of them between cleanings. My older shorter non-ceramic CE2's clean up a lot faster, and taste just as good.

banjo i did tests on 12 cut in half, added juice the lower half and even bent the stem with the juice in the lower half and did not get any leaking from the bottom, the leak seems to occur where the cup meets the stem, it seems juice is seeping upwards, also some have juice dripping form the coil area becuase they wick to well when not in use.

They are doing testing on this issue and say they have solved it the stem and cup issue , also the wick will be steamed form now on and there wont be primer.

these will be shipped this week for testing, if the correct these little things Ill be satisfied as these are suppose to disposable and with the new ohm option im happy with that as well.

 

[zelda]

Is anyone else getting that burnt or metallic taste? I had some first editions-I couldn't get that metallic taste out of a few no matter what I did.

 

[BanjoMan]

banjo i did tests on 12 cut in half, added juice the lower half and even bent the stem with the juice in the lower half and did not get any leaking from the bottom, the leak seems to occur where the cup meets the stem, it seems juice is seeping upwards, also some have juice dripping form the coil area becuase they wick to well when not in use.

They are doing testing on this issue and say they have solved it the stem and cup issue , also the wick will be steamed form now on and there wont be primer.

these will be shipped this week for testing, if the correct these little things Ill be satisfied as these are suppose to disposable and with the new ohm option im happy with that as well.

I'm not having any major problems with leakage. I'm just making a general statement that the XL's seem to more of a hassle to clean properly. If they start making the short 510's with an ohm option I might try some more.

I still have about 100 of the non-ceramic 510's here and haven't hit a bad one yet, so they'll probably last a while.

 

[BanjoMan]

Is anyone else getting that burnt or metallic taste? I had some first editions-I couldn't get that metallic taste out of a few no matter what I did.

If it's a "burnt" taste it probably has more to do with the voltage you're running them at. Even at 3.7v the early ones taste a little burnt if I don't let it rest in-between hits. I can't say I've ever had a "metallic" taste with any of them.

 

[zelda]

If it's a "burnt" taste it probably has more to do with the voltage you're running them at. Even at 3.7v the early ones taste a little burnt if I don't let it rest in-between hits. I can't say I've ever had a "metallic" taste with any of them.

I'm gettting some 2nd editons soon and I'm hoping they don't have that taste. It was defiinitely metallic.

 

[badkolo]

I'm gettting some 2nd editons soon and I'm hoping they don't have that taste. It was defiinitely metallic.

sorry to hear that zelda and yes i did experience that on some older ones.

I have not had any like that with any funny taste on the newest ones other then some having primer which i burn or wash off.

the build is a drastic change on the inside when comparing the ceramics to the old plastic cup ones, everything on the inside seems to be much improved.

and i think banjo hit the nail on the head, matching the e2 to the perfect voltage gets such good results its insane.

 

[br5495]

br, have you (or anyone else reading this) done a clean and burn on an XL?

I'm working on both a 510XL and 808DXL right now. It must be the extra wick because these things take forever to dry out. Takes forever to get the water out, then forever again before they stop spewing out white smoke. I'm leaving the filler ring in them and I know that doesn't help.

I need an alternate way of drying these, even if it takes longer. Maybe in the oven on low heat?

I haven't been washing mine. Just been running it dry, then burn. I think there is more wick than the older ones, so maybe it takes longer.

If you need to dry water after a wash, a low oven should do. If you set it too hot, what is there to burn other than the label? Part of my mess under the table is a heat gun and I have used it for drying. A hair dryer should work okay.