Factors on a RTA that decide over taste?

Status
Not open for further replies.

flexy123

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 29, 2009
203
191
I know this is a can of worms since what makes taste "great" is often subjective. But I'd like to get some opinions. This is mainly for MTL vaping...aka "great taste", but I think the principles should apply for any type of vaper or atty.

I notice that more-recent atties, now just randomly mention VandyVApe Berserker any many others, are way more compact than the oldschool types, like my beloved KF Lite V2 Plus, which *overall* is still the most satisfying MTL device for me.

* Height of the internal chamber.
You can see this when you compare, say a Kayfun to a more modern one. The Kayfun has a larger vape "chamber" which goes almost the entire length of the tank. New devices have a short chamber, like a dome/cap over the coils. Since recent so-called "best MTL" devices all have a short chamber, is it right to assume that this means "better taste"? (Eg. Svoemestro is advertizing their latest KF Lite 2019 as "having better taste since the vape is concentrated in a smaller chamber"...but of course this could just be marketing blahblah. (I was NEVER very happy with anything Svoemestro did after Kayfun Lite, for MTL, V5 is horrid and V3 was "meh". And to me it looks, the entire change in KF Lite 2019 is the super-small tank which now all atties need to have by law....doeesn't need it's necessarily "better"...

* Height of the chimney
See, what's its name, Coppervape Spica Pro. Where you can adjust the chimney height. (The chimney, of course, is the smaller tube leading up from the "chamber"). I can also experiment with my Kayfun parts here, and make one with the super-chort chimney from the Nano kit, with smaller tank. The question is, which is "better": No doubt, the vape is hotter with short chimney...but this doesn't mean it's "better".

In addition to that, I have confusing information about the Spica Pro, where some say that a longer (!!) chimney makes for a better throat hit. (My common sense tells me a shorter chimney would make better TH...but I can be wrong)

* Height of the coil above the air hole.
I have seen several people saying that MORE distance of the coil to the air hole below means better taste and throathit. Can someone confirm this? This also contradicts what I though. I thought coil closer to the hole means better throathit.

* Diameter of the air hole.
Yesterday I read somewhere that the diameter of the hole right under the coil is the most important for "good taste", much more so than the outside air intake hole on an atty. The person said that a smaller hole makes a lot of difference, but a smaller intake hole outside the atty regulates only airflow, but has no influence on taste whatsoever!

I think all these things are interesting, since it could help someone with the expected flavour of a device, just judging from specs and dimensions.

*
I own several Kayfun Lite V2 Plus clones ("Still King for MTL"), KF V3 Mini Plus ("ok"), V5 ("horrid for MTL"), Berserker ("leaking POS") and currently I have a Dvarw coming since everyone is so hyped about it. Most excited about the Dvarw.
 

Frenchfry1942

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 12, 2014
7,459
14,396
Small chamber that bell-curves to the chimney. Excess air (large chamber) just adds more air to the mix.

The bell-curve just assists the air flow going up to the chimney flue.

There are so many variables involved with the taste that nothing is deal-breaker by itself...even the size of the chamber.
 

AngeNZ

ShutterBug
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Contest Winner!
  • Mar 24, 2018
    10,756
    82,890
    New Zealand
    * Height of the coil above the air hole.
    I have seen several people saying that MORE distance of the coil to the air hole below means better taste and throathit. Can someone confirm this? This also contradicts what I though. I thought coil closer to the hole means better throathit.

    I mainly use the doggystyle RTA, hotcig centaur mini and the cthulhu hastur mtl RTAs. I've found that if you want more throat hit - raise your coil higher from the airflow hole. More flavour - keep it lower to the airflow
     

    muth

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    May 20, 2014
    1,911
    7,845
    Boston, MA, USA
    I know this is a can of worms since what makes taste "great" is often subjective. But I'd like to get some opinions. This is mainly for MTL vaping...aka "great taste", but I think the principles should apply for any type of vaper or atty.

    I notice that more-recent atties, now just randomly mention VandyVApe Berserker any many others, are way more compact than the oldschool types, like my beloved KF Lite V2 Plus, which *overall* is still the most satisfying MTL device for me.

    * Height of the internal chamber.
    You can see this when you compare, say a Kayfun to a more modern one. The Kayfun has a larger vape "chamber" which goes almost the entire length of the tank. New devices have a short chamber, like a dome/cap over the coils. Since recent so-called "best MTL" devices all have a short chamber, is it right to assume that this means "better taste"? (Eg. Svoemestro is advertizing their latest KF Lite 2019 as "having better taste since the vape is concentrated in a smaller chamber"...but of course this could just be marketing blahblah. (I was NEVER very happy with anything Svoemestro did after Kayfun Lite, for MTL, V5 is horrid and V3 was "meh". And to me it looks, the entire change in KF Lite 2019 is the super-small tank which now all atties need to have by law....doeesn't need it's necessarily "better"...

    * Height of the chimney
    See, what's its name, Coppervape Spica Pro. Where you can adjust the chimney height. (The chimney, of course, is the smaller tube leading up from the "chamber"). I can also experiment with my Kayfun parts here, and make one with the super-chort chimney from the Nano kit, with smaller tank. The question is, which is "better": No doubt, the vape is hotter with short chimney...but this doesn't mean it's "better".

    In addition to that, I have confusing information about the Spica Pro, where some say that a longer (!!) chimney makes for a better throat hit. (My common sense tells me a shorter chimney would make better TH...but I can be wrong)

    * Height of the coil above the air hole.
    I have seen several people saying that MORE distance of the coil to the air hole below means better taste and throathit. Can someone confirm this? This also contradicts what I though. I thought coil closer to the hole means better throathit.

    * Diameter of the air hole.
    Yesterday I read somewhere that the diameter of the hole right under the coil is the most important for "good taste", much more so than the outside air intake hole on an atty. The person said that a smaller hole makes a lot of difference, but a smaller intake hole outside the atty regulates only airflow, but has no influence on taste whatsoever!

    I think all these things are interesting, since it could help someone with the expected flavour of a device, just judging from specs and dimensions.

    *
    I own several Kayfun Lite V2 Plus clones ("Still King for MTL"), KF V3 Mini Plus ("ok"), V5 ("horrid for MTL"), Berserker ("leaking POS") and currently I have a Dvarw coming since everyone is so hyped about it. Most excited about the Dvarw.
    I, for one, am so glad you started this conversation because I was thinking of doing the same thing. Every variable you mentioned.....How about the coil closer to your mouth gives better flavor? Will an engineer trained in air velocity please explain this "fact" to me? If that's the case, why do my long chimney, KFLs give me intense flavor like no other shortie does? Now, if we're discussing RDAs, that's a different animal but this is an RTA thread. I could go on but flexy already covered it. I'm tired of the BS that some reviewers feed their audience. Some even contradict themselves from video to video. I have heard one reviewer explain that the longer, thinner chimney concentrates the flavor making it more intense. Then turn around while reviewing a different RTA and say that because the coil is close to your mouth the flavor is better. You can't have it both ways. There are more variables involved and I'd like to hear reviewers explain them correctly. Maybe we can use this thread to get into those variables and put this baby to bed.
     

    Fredman1

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Mar 27, 2017
    4,052
    22,788
    66
    New Zealand
    I find the closer the coil is to my mouth the better the flavor...no doubt. The first two years I vaped nothing but MTL. Didn't want nothing to do with DL.
    All along I had this problem that I don't get proper flavor from my RTAs...and I have boxes full of them.
    Long story short, one day I dared to try a DL (derringer) and a whole new world opened up. I went back and tried almost all the flavors I didn't like. They all tasted different to the extend that I had way to many I then liked.
    No doubt in my mind...the longer the chimney, the less the flavor.
     

    flexy123

    Senior Member
    ECF Veteran
    Mar 29, 2009
    203
    191
    It was just yesterday I dug out my old KF5 and compared it to my even older KFL+. I mean both atties are...BIG. (Ok, holding them side-by-side now, the KF5 has definitely a longer chimney, about 0.7cm or so, chamber size might be about the same.

    At 13-14W for MTL, the KF5 has significantly less flavour even than the old KFL+.

    And then of course we have these people who raved up the Berserker as one of the best MTL devices with "the best flavour" (the Berserker's leaking is a whole different story...) - but then with these shorter atties, vape can get unpleasantly hot at anything above 12W. This is why I am still using my KFL2+ (with the large acrylic tank) since I like that the vape is cooler/smoother and I don't notice a large general flavour difference otherwise.
     

    muth

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    May 20, 2014
    1,911
    7,845
    Boston, MA, USA
    It was just yesterday I dug out my old KF5 and compared it to my even older KFL+. I mean both atties are...BIG. (Ok, holding them side-by-side now, the KF5 has definitely a longer chimney, about 0.7cm or so, chamber size might be about the same.

    At 13-14W for MTL, the KF5 has significantly less flavour even than the old KFL+.

    And then of course we have these people who raved up the Berserker as one of the best MTL devices with "the best flavour" (the Berserker's leaking is a whole different story...) - but then with these shorter atties, vape can get unpleasantly hot at anything above 12W. This is why I am still using my KFL2+ (with the large acrylic tank) since I like that the vape is cooler/smoother and I don't notice a large general flavour difference otherwise.
    Yes, and don't forget that the KF5 chimney has a wider girth than the lites. Oops, you already said that.
     

    muth

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    May 20, 2014
    1,911
    7,845
    Boston, MA, USA
    I find the closer the coil is to my mouth the better the flavor...no doubt. The first two years I vaped nothing but MTL. Didn't want nothing to do with DL.
    All along I had this problem that I don't get proper flavor from my RTAs...and I have boxes full of them.
    Long story short, one day I dared to try a DL (derringer) and a whole new world opened up. I went back and tried almost all the flavors I didn't like. They all tasted different to the extend that I had way to many I then liked.
    No doubt in my mind...the longer the chimney, the less the flavor.
    Just to be clear, are you referring to RDAs because this thread is a discussion on RTAs? I'm only aware of the Derringer RDA. If there is an RTA I stand corrected.

    As I noted above, the RDA is a different animal. If you're referring to switching from your RTAs to an RDA then no doubt you experienced better flavor. If I compared all of my RDAs with RTAs, the RDAs would win over for flavor no doubt about it. With some exceptions for RDTAs like the Avocado or Aromamizer type decks.....but I digress. I believe @flexy123 meant this to be a discussion on the RTA and the factors that make it flavorful.
     

    muth

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    May 20, 2014
    1,911
    7,845
    Boston, MA, USA
    The impression I get is the “wetter” the vapor is the more flavor there is. What makes vapor thicker and more “wet” is amount of available juice,heat, air, and how they all mix together.
    True that is....I never did get good flavor off of those dry hits:p
     

    Fredman1

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Mar 27, 2017
    4,052
    22,788
    66
    New Zealand
    Just to be clear, are you referring to RDAs because this thread is a discussion on RTAs? I'm only aware of the Derringer RDA. If there is an RTA I stand corrected.

    As I noted above, the RDA is a different animal. If you're referring to switching from your RTAs to an RDA then no doubt you experienced better flavor. If I compared all of my RDAs with RTAs, the RDAs would win over for flavor no doubt about it. With some exceptions for RDTAs like the Avocado or Aromamizer type decks.....but I digress. I believe @flexy123 meant this to be a discussion on the RTA and the factors that make it flavorful.
    My apologies. I got carried away over flavor, and confused the issue...:cry:
     

    muth

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    May 20, 2014
    1,911
    7,845
    Boston, MA, USA
    The BSKR V1.5 I use is heads and tails above my old KFL's, no leaking here at all. I also still run a Rose V2 which was much better than the KFL IMHO.
    I'm so glad you said that. I won a Rose V2 in a contest recently and I'm psyched to get it built. I, too, have heard that it tops the KFLs. It's one big, heavy tank, though, lol.
     
    • Winner
    Reactions: Letitia

    muth

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    May 20, 2014
    1,911
    7,845
    Boston, MA, USA
    The BSKR V1.5 I use is heads and tails above my old KFL's, no leaking here at all. I also still run a Rose V2 which was much better than the KFL IMHO.
    Would you like to expound on the Berserker's attributes that make it heads over tails more flavorful than your KFLs? Or maybe other attributes you like, like wicking, filling, etc.?
     
    • Agree
    Reactions: tdman77

    TrollDragon

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Dec 3, 2014
    10,555
    57,646
    NS, Canada
    I'm so glad you said that. I won a Rose V2 in a contest recently and I'm psyched to get it built. I, too, have heard that it tops the KFLs. It's one big, heavy tank, though, lol.
    It's big, heavy and a PiTA to wick and maintain but well worth it IMHO. Only takes a few builds to get the hang of the correct coil leg length and wicking. The ceramic cup can get quite stained from juices and it's easy to clean in between builds with no coil installed. Carefully slide the cup straight up out of the base, put a metal rod through one of the holes and hit it with the butane torch. Once the ceramic starts to glow all the staining burns right off, let it cool and you'll find it is pristine white again.

    The Rose V2 comes with an awesome build stand (you need it to get the bottom off for full disassembly). I like the integrated drip tip/JFC, it could be a con to those that don't like a metal drip tip though. You have to remove the tank to fill it but it not a deal breaker. I hold the drip tip in place as I unscrew the base so it goes back on where it was before filling. If you push the drip tip to one side when filling it's easier to get juice in quicker.
     

    TrollDragon

    ECF Guru
    ECF Veteran
    Dec 3, 2014
    10,555
    57,646
    NS, Canada
    Would you like to expound on the Berserker's attributes that make it heads over tails more flavorful than your KFLs? Or maybe other attributes you like, like wicking, filling, etc.?
    I run mine with Salts and a simple 26ga N80 coil at 18W, it's easy to build and wick, top fill and has an awesome drip tip. ;) I use it with the metal tank on the OG Aegis for a rugged little MTL rig.

    As for flavor over the KFL, the BSKR has a slot below the coil to allow more airflow over a wider coil. I tried a similar build in the KFL and it paled in comparison.
     
    • Useful
    Reactions: Letitia

    mac-nutty

    Moved On
    Mar 2, 2019
    579
    1,080
    pub
    Small chamber that bell-curves to the chimney. Excess air (large chamber) just adds more air to the mix.

    The bell-curve just assists the air flow going up to the chimney flue.

    There are so many variables involved with the taste that nothing is deal-breaker by itself...even the size of the chamber.
    i would love to agree but for a slightly open mtl i have been using this one (and the manta,doggie,dvarw) for years it's 30 mm the chamber is huge and is amazing for tobacco and custards
    serveimage (37).jpg
     
    Last edited:
    • Useful
    Reactions: muth
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread