"Fake" vapors rant

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chellemmm

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Elitism from vapers who rebuild or subohm or whatever against people who use eGos or ces or clearos or whatever also gets my goat. WHO CARES if you have found nirvana with your rba/rda stuff? If someone is happy with what they vape, who are we to tell them they have to go to the "next level?"

I am REALLY getting PO'd with some of this stuff. Be happy you vape. Be happy with what you vape and whatever you vape it with. Looking down on others because they don't use the same type of equipment you use is just as bad. IMHO.
 
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chellemmm

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...snip

You really do have to really want it. The egos and the kanger tanks, they're ok, if you started with cigalikes, which I did. But you don't really get into GREAT vaping until you've learned enough about this to get a rebuildable, and if they're just "chipping," they might not ever get to that point, but just eventually find the egos and kanger tanks rather inadequate, and just stop, thinking that all vaping is "just not good enough."

Andria


GRRRR/GRRR. I am sorry YOU think my vape isn't "great." For me, it is perfect. BTW, I used eGo types exclusively for one year. I NEVER WENT BACK to smoking, because it was MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH.
 

crxess

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Jman8 - 100% on the same page in understanding.
I never want a Smoker or an ex-smoker or an ANTZ to see me as ANTZ. I have never assumed I am better than another or Know what is best for them. I do not accept that anyone has that right.

I do offer even Die Hard steadfast smokers a tiny bit of advice. If not interested in switching/quitting consider RYO. I do believe that is the one key element that added my transition the most. Reduction in Planned Chemical addiction by BT.
From there it is simple support as needed/requested. 20+ converts later, I am happy with my way of coaching.
 

FatherTime

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probably 75% of smokers i talk to do not have any interest in quitting. they respond with "i dont care". "im going to die anyways" or "good then ill die faster". the others want to quit but are too lazy to go get a vape. very few people say yea i really want to quit ive tried this but didnt work but yea let m try e cigs how do i start. so i just say survival of the fittest. dont we have a population and pollution problem anyway?
 

Robino1

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I know we have a good deal of dual users on the forum. That's fine. It works for them. It IS all about harm reduction. Not nicotine addiction but HARM REDUCTION. I applaud those whether they quit cigs entirely or have managed to cut their usage back significantly. I know one gentleman that has his one cig a day, every morning. That's cool. I know of one lady that has her two to three cigs a day. That's cool too. Harm Reduction. They have been doing this for years. Yes, Years. It has not caused them to go back to smoking full time.

The ANTZ would have you believe that unless you cut the cigs out entirely, you Will go back to smoking full time. I call BS on this. Just knowing the many people that I do have dual usage, I don't see where vaping will lead to full out cig use.

And really, who am I to judge what others do with their life? Isn't that what we are trying to get away from? Seriously...... Think about it. I am fighting tooth and nail to stop others from deciding what I can and cannot do when it comes to ecigs. That translates to all areas, now that my eyes have been opened. It is time for everyone to start living your own lives and not worrying about what the other person does in theirs.

*steps off soap box yet again*
 

desertrider

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I really couldnt care less what other people do. For me, since theyre already vaping, albeit part time, theres a better chance of them getting off analogs than if they didnt vape at all. They may wake up one day and it'll "click"

And I dont see how part time vapers "ruin it for the rest of us". I really dont. Doesn't ruin anything for me, which is who I really only care about.

Just my .02.

edit: calling "part time vapers" fake is like saying those who smoke socially are fake and ruin it for the rest of smokers. Rubbish.
 
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Jman8

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The foul taste is one reason I don't understand how someone who ditched the smokes in an eyeblink could be seduced back to smoking, and why I don't understand the dual use thing at all -- I didn't quit because that was my intent when I came here and got started -- it wasn't! -- I quit because, after vaping for awhile, cigarettes tasted so NASTY, and, not incidentally, they cost SO MUCH, and since I had an excellent substitute that tasted better, cost less, and oh yeah, was far less likely to kill me or make me mortally ill, I figured, why not? All those reasons are what make it hard for me to understand why anyone who vapes regularly would even *want* to smoke -- there's just no payoff in it. You say you like the taste, so I guess I have to group that with my husband's fondness for liver -- just the smell of that makes me gag, so to each his own, I guess.

For me, the taste is / always has been acquired. When I quit cold turkey for around 8 years and then had a smoke, yeah, it tasted kinda nasty. I kinda knew that day that I would likely have more than one, and I would say the 15 to 20 I had after that first one were not smoked for taste. The umpteen hundred after those were smoked partially because of the taste.

I recently had a cold beer when I was really thirsty. I currently drink about one beer every 4 months. The first 2 sips of that beer were golden. Tasted great. The 2nd half of that one beer had me remember, quite clearly, why I don't like the taste of beer. But in my past where I would drink say 6 beers in an evening, I can recall getting to a point (likely after 3) where taste was not even a little bit of an issue. Yet, if I compare soda to 98% of all beers I've ever tried, soda would win on taste hands down.

Vaping usually wins on taste / flavor over smoking for me today and since I started vaping. But not all the time. There are times where I get a taste for a combustible. Not an urge to smoke. Just the familiar taste. I would say less than half the time, I follow through on that desire to fulfill the taste cause I'm so used to reduced smoking. But there are times when that taste is so strong and when I have the smoke it hits the spot. Fulfills my desire, and only takes about 4 drags and I'm good to go for days. There are times when I have the smoke and I'm like, well that didn't taste so good. But I also get that from vaping at times.

If I listed all the pros I'm familiar with from smoking, I would concede that many of them are covered by vaping. And I'd have to concede at some point that the cons can outweigh the pros especially if one is engaged in abusive smoking. With moderate smoking, I'd be reluctant to concede as I don't believe 2 smokes a day (or less) for say 10 years is going to lead to premature death. I think it could in some cases, but also realize that some of the people currently 100 years or older are smoking or have previously smoked at that level. And if they pass away at 108 years of age, when they could've lived to 114, then um, yeah, that would be a premature death.
 

Xcighippy

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GRRRR/GRRR. I am sorry YOU think my vape isn't "great." For me, it is perfect. BTW, I used eGo types exclusively for one year. I NEVER WENT BACK to smoking, because it was MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH.

I can see how Andria's comments can offend those who use ego types that work great for them. I just think it was a poor choice of words. In her comment the word 'I' should have been used instead of "you." My own experience was just that. I started with a disposable e-cig. It just seemed like a cheap imitation of the real thing and left me wanting the real thing more! I then went to the ego type carto tank set up. It worked great. I knew then that this vaping thing was going to do the trick for me. No more cigarettes!
As time went on I realized I wanted something more. I knew it was out there so I kept experimenting with different builds and devices and it evolved into a great hobby.
I have several co-worker friends who went into this vaping journey with me and they have all gradually gone back to smoking. Why? Because they didn't want to be bothered with evolving into different setups to enhance their experience. They too found the ego's and carto tanks inadequate and gave in to "these just aren't good enough" thinking.
For NOW my two Provaries topped with Kayfun clone's and my cheap K100 with a dual micro coil on top are all I need. I say "for now" because I don't know what other possibly better for ME devices are in my future!
To each his own. Whatever works!
I know this is off topic but had to share.
edit to add: To bring it back on topic. Who gives a damn who vapes and smokes at the same time?
 
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GrandSam

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I think it's fine. Think of it this way, although they are dual using, they are replacing SOME cigarettes by vaping. So a pack-a-day smoker may actually go from 1 pack a day, to 1/2 a pack + vape. Eventually they realize they're getting some of their taste buds back, their endurance returns slightly, etc. Once they've benefited from these rewards, they'll want more. What did they change? They begin to notice that they're smoking less, which is what led to these rewards/benefits. So they may actually stop smoking altogether. It takes time.
 

TheColdHandedVG

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Not only do I not feel bad as a dual user, I feel pride and at peace.

Today I bought a pack of smokes. My 6th pack of 2014. Moderate smoking rocks. I wish it for many current smokers, as it rocks that much. If current smoker wishes to cease smoking, I respect that and honor that decision. But being made to feel like you have to quit or something is dreadfully wrong is microcosm of what we are up against. The shaming, guilting and control of adult choices to take the risk and enjoy the freedom, is so far overboard, it fills me with pride to not detach completely (and righteously) from those evil doers, er I mean, smokers.

Growing up, with both parents being smokers, and in a world where smoking indoors was still permissible, and second hand smoke wasn't treated as leading to possible extinction of humanity, I had ZERO exposure to moderate smokers/smoking. It was all hard core users, people who were okay with abusing. IOW, the norm. Over the next 20 years or so, I saw a small handful of people who somehow, magically, were able to smoke periodically, while vast majority were abusive with their smoking habits, myself include. When that amount of abuse is allowed to exist and be deemed the norm, it is little wonder that we live in a world where 'smoking kills' is propped up as inherent problem with smoking. At same time, when I quit cold turkey and then returned to smoking, I wasn't in the dark, nor did I choose to ignore the pros that exist with a habit/full addiction to smoking. And it disgusts me that this is so far downplayed to the point where it is challenging or socially gauche, even today, to talk in that vein. "How dare you speak aloud of smoking as if there are merits to that dirty disgusting habit." IMO, as long as those pros are downplayed, there will be a societal problem with smoking and impact on public health due to this deception that is nearly as bad, though going in opposite direction, as what BT tried to do with (or to) the public.

Kids or young new smokers get to discover the pros on their own, while wading through the deception and finding a balance between the over hyped cons and suitable usage that does, in fact, work for them. Varies by individual, while the hook or addiction remains generally the same. The shaming and constant public pressure to quit remains about the exact same.

Enter vaping.

Where reduction is so easily obtained, and moderation so easy to abide by, that it undoes at least some of the cons, and sucks the wind out of the sails of shaming. It allows for many, though not all, of the same benefits that an ex-smoker enjoys. The better health. The increase in finances. The erasure of constant cravings. The peace of mind that comes from liberation of being hooked/addicted to smoking.

And yet the shaming persists. Especially from ex-smokers. For almost no reason other than, "I quit, so should you." So so glad I wasn't like this when I went cold turkey.

I take pride in still smoking a) because moderation really does rock and b) because I'd really rather not detach from camp smoker in such a callous or shallow way. I'd really rather not become the zealot that I loathed as an abusive smoker and that I disdained when I went cold turkey, and which now seems like it is so socially accepted that I pity those stuck in that way of thinking.

In my honest and reasoned opinion, the incessant call for smoking cessation as the only (good) path is spoiling the cause for vaping. It takes away from harm reduction and feeds the mentality that thinks prohibition has a place. While seemingly ignoring the idea that they will (or we will) one day seek the same from vapers. "Why don't you quit already?" "Do you not have any self control?" What's wrong with you that makes your feel your habit is not imposing on others?" The constant attempt to suck the wind out of the pros of vaping. The enjoyment. The liberation.

Dual users are no more in a transitional phase than the rest of society is with regards to vaping vs. smoking. Yet, dual users realize that vaping is an alternative. A wise alternative. A helpful alternative. And an enjoyable alternative.

How can you see it as an alternative when you've sworn off smoking and express contempt or shame for what the other alternative is, namely smoking? Cessation for some (vapers) often appears as an abandonment rather than alternative. And politically, it shows up as similar in message to precisely what ANTZ is aiming for, yet failing at for around year 57 now. You have to want to stay quit for cessation to truly work, yet when you want others to stay quit for cessation to be realized, it crosses a dangerous ethical and political line that looks a lot like propaganda and control.

Vaping, as a communal enterprise doesn't need this. Quit because your personal choice desires as much. Rejoice at your new found liberation. Share your story so others may follow in your footsteps as may be their desire. But advocate for cessation to those who haven't indicated that desire, and let me/us know how you rationalize away the fact that you appear to stand side by side with opposition?

Do I think you are ANTZ if you advocate cessation from smoking via vaping? Not really, though the sentiment can appear that way. Many vapers, who have quit smoking, do express honor and kinship with those who engage in reduction and thus appear to get harm reduction without needing to make it about abandonment.

Anyway, that's the short version of my counter rant that seems relevant to this thread.

I hope my comment didn't come off wrong. What I really meant to say was there is absolutely nothing wrong with dual using, that's basically it. Smoke and vape? No problem. Strictly vape? Great. Still a smoker? That's your choice and I will never look down on year nor will I ever push my views on you or insist you start vaping (either strictly or dual using)

Live and let live :toast:
 

chellemmm

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I know a LOT of vapers who only use eGo types and are extremely happy with them. Just because YOU needed more and are happy with your Prothingies, you don't have to make sweeping statements that most people who use eGo type batteries will go back to smoking. I can say the same thing about people who own Provaris. I know two vapers who went back to smoking after successfully using Provaris. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't tell me how to feel, because I know what elitism is.

BTW, I have "advanced" to other types of batteries and toppers, but it wasn't because I wanted to go back to smoking. I wanted more control and battery life. The point is, we NEED TO STOP this elitism. If you use eGo type batteries and whatever toppers, you are not "less" of a vaper than if you use a Provari and whatever magical RBA/RDA topper. Similarly, if you smoke and vape, you are not "less" of a vaper, or a "part time" vaper. You people sound like idiots sometimes. Really.

"I have several co-worker friends who went into this vaping journey with me and they have all gradually gone back to smoking. Why? Because they didn't want to be bothered with evolving into different setups to enhance their experience. They too found the ego's and carto tanks inadequate and gave in to "these just aren't good enough" thinking."

Maybe they went back to smoking because some ..... told them they needed to "evolve" and that the eGo and carto tanks were "inadequate." THEY AREN'T. For the majority of users, they are extremely adequate. If YOU want this to be your hobby, go for it. Some of us just want to vape and not hear about how our flavor is muted and we need to take the "next step." If it works, it works.
 
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chellemmm

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I NEVER thought about smoking when I was smoking. I went and bought a pack and smoked it. Some people don't want or don't need to make it a hobby or science. Sometimes a good vape is just a good vape. I know a lot of people come to ECF to brag about their hobby, but we don't need anybody getting turned off and returning to smoking because of these elitist statements. IF IT GETS YOU TO REFRAIN FROM SMOKING, IT IS GOOD ENOUGH.
 

alisa1970

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I know a LOT of vapers who only use eGo types and are extremely happy with them. Just because YOU needed more and are happy with your Prothingies, you don't have to make sweeping statements that most people who use eGo type batteries will go back to smoking. I can say the same thing about people who own Provaris. I know two vapers who went back to smoking after successfully using Provaris. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Don't tell me how to feel, because I know what elitism is.

BTW, I have "advanced" to other types of batteries and toppers, but it wasn't because I wanted to go back to smoking. I wanted more control and battery life. The point is, we NEED TO STOP this elitism. If you use eGo type batteries and whatever toppers, you are not "less" of a vaper than if you use a Provari and whatever magical RBA/RDA topper. Similarly, if you smoke and vape, you are not "less" of a vaper, or a "part time" vaper. You people sound like idiots sometimes. Really.

While I'm not as chapped as chelle is with this thread, I have to agree with her post. I have a Zen2 Cartotank Hybrid (most would consider this a high-end mod). I also use a Kayfun on it. I build my own coils. I do not sub-ohm, nor am I very interested in trying. I'm happy with this setup at 1.5-1.8 ohm.

BUT - 95% of the time, I use my Innokin VV V3 (x2) with an Aro II head and Evod heads and a couple of Tumblers (which I also rebuild, because I find it enjoyable). Why do I use a "starter" setup after over a year of vaping? Because it's easy, convenient, and I can fill 'er up and go. I am perfectly happy with my clearos. The coils are cheap to replace if I wanted to buy them, they taste great, and they provide as much vapor as my Kayfun, which is more than sufficient to keep me from smoking.

My significant other smokes. I don't like the smell, and sometimes right after he's had one I have to lean back a little because the smell is so strong. He's tried vaping, and doesn't like it - it doesn't take away his desire to smoke, in fact he says it makes him want a cigarette more. I do not judge him, I am a little sad because his health is being affected but he's still a PERSON, one that I love, who happens to have a habit which is extremely difficult to break.
 

Myrany

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90% of the time I am running one of my 2 REO grands with RM2s on them set up with a 1.2-1.5 ohm microcoil (cotton wicked) or my Provari with either a Russian or an IGO-L on it.

Know what I use the other 10% of the time? A Volt cigalike with a carto. Yep a plain old fashioned 808-D cigalike. It just works better for driving for me.

Being successful with vaping has nothing to do with what gear than it does with what gear is RIGHT FOR YOU.
 

desertrider

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90% of the time I am running one of my 2 REO grands with RM2s on them set up with a 1.2-1.5 ohm microcoil (cotton wicked) or my Provari with either a Russian or an IGO-L on it.

Know what I use the other 10% of the time? A Volt cigalike with a carto. Yep a plain old fashioned 808-D cigalike. It just works better for driving for me.

Being successful with vaping has nothing to do with what gear than it does with what gear is RIGHT FOR YOU.

QFT. Elitism really has no place here.
 

Iffy

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This thread kinda turned into a tragic and somewhat systemic portrait of our non-goobermental vaping issues; some folk demonstrating elitism, others jumping through hoops to justify their vaping/dualism and a generally self defeating self-centered offensive/defensive attitude. <how's dat fer a run-on sentence>

Folk, we are better than this!
 

ChurchMouse

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Elitism from vapers who rebuild or subohm or whatever against people who use eGos or ces or clearos or whatever also gets my goat. WHO CARES if you have found nirvana with your RBA/RDA stuff? If someone is happy with what they vape, who are we to tell them they have to go to the "next level?"

I am REALLY getting PO'd with some of this stuff. Be happy you vape. Be happy with what you vape and whatever you vape it with. Looking down on others because they don't use the same type of equipment you use is just as bad. IMHO.

From a person vaping 7 months and still regularly using my evod starter kit (and why not? Those things have survived more abuse than my last two cell phones and work like the day I got them) THANK YOU.

It also took me 3 months of dual use to fully quit. I had the goal of quitting from the start but it took a while to get there. C'est la vie.

People should worry about doing what's right for them and not worry about everyone else so much, IMO.
 

AndriaD

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Elitism from vapers who rebuild or subohm or whatever against people who use eGos or ces or clearos or whatever also gets my goat. WHO CARES if you have found nirvana with your RBA/RDA stuff? If someone is happy with what they vape, who are we to tell them they have to go to the "next level?"

I am REALLY getting PO'd with some of this stuff. Be happy you vape. Be happy with what you vape and whatever you vape it with. Looking down on others because they don't use the same type of equipment you use is just as bad. IMHO.

Totally agree. I was perfectly happy with my kanger tanks for several months; I only started the rebuilding because the constant replacing gets expensive, and I figured I needed more control over this thing that's keeping me off cigarettes; once I did learn it, then naturally I wanted to buy a "real" rebuildable, because I had heard they were great, and they are, but I'd be the first to understand that not everyone wants or needs to go there. It''s really not that hard, but it sure is intimidating when you know nothing about it; it scared the bejeebers out of me, and I'm still clumsy as all get out at doing it.

But, if someone was using the smaller tanks and expressed dissatisfaction with them, then I don't think it's really out of line to *suggest* a rebuildable, or a carto/cartotank, or whatever the person felt most comfortable trying out. There's a lot of good options, and it really just depends on the vaper's a) budget, and b) level of comfort with whatever it is.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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GRRRR/GRRR. I am sorry YOU think my vape isn't "great." For me, it is perfect. BTW, I used eGo types exclusively for one year. I NEVER WENT BACK to smoking, because it was MORE THAN GOOD ENOUGH.

Ok. Geez, take a chill pill or something. I'm not concerned about those who stay with vaping. I'm concerned about those who grow dissatisfied with it, and quit, to go back to smoking, or stay smoking, and then become an enemy of vaping. They get to some level, whether it be cigalikes, egos, kanger tanks, cartotanks, *whatever*, and figure this is the best it's ever gonna be, so they just stop and tell everyone how useless it is -- you know, those people? With their limited experience and understanding of vaping, they tell everyone it's useless, and because they *have* vaped before, the people they tell believe them and tell others they heard it from their brother's girlfriend's sister. :facepalm:

Andria
 
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