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FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

Discussion in 'Z Old Stickies' started by Bill Godshall, Dec 1, 2011.

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  1. sqirl1

    sqirl1 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 10, 2011
    St. Louis, MO
    I agree with some of those, but keep in mind if you do that, you would need to increase the salary of congresspeople/senators. Now before you go all "... R U TALKING ABOUT DONT THEY GET PAID ENOUGH AS IT IS?!?!" on me, here's why: To be in congress, you need to establish residency in the state you're in. By that, I mean you need to own a home. Why is this a big deal? because you also have to pay a large residency fee in the home they provide for you as a member of congress. In other words you have to pay for 2 houses at a time, something not many can afford to do. The fact is that it's very EXPENSIVE to be a member of congress, and we need to do something about that as well. Not to mention how expensive it is to run a campaign. Also, you'll want to have a narrower definition of a "career politician" because not all people who are members of congress for long periods of time are bad; Ron Paul could easily be considered a "career politician", and I can't think of anybody right now who would make a better president than he would. Here's what I think we need:

    *MAKE ALL ELECTION AND CAMPAIGN FUNDING PUBLIC AND ELIMINATE PRIVATE DONATIONS. This would mean that all candidates have an equal chance of getting their name out there, and would all but eliminate our 2 party system. Give each candidate a flat amount of money at the beginning, and if they feel they have a good reason that they need more, make them apply for it, and make all applications and decisions thereof public. Also, make it a minimum 10 year sentence for abuse of these funds, in addition to being barred from running for so much as a municipal office for life.

    * Offer Financial services for those running under meager backgrounds so that the housing wouldn't be an issue

    and

    * Make all discussions members of congress have with lobbyists or corporations public, and make any attempts to hide such discussions a federal offense.
     
  2. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2009
    GA by way of WV
    I just got done writing a letter to John Stossel of FOX News, asking for his continued help against the FDA's attempts to ban vaping.

    The next step is writing our legislators at both the federal and state levels of government. The more letters and emails that are sent to our representatives as well as media personalities like John Stossel and Rush Limbaugh, the better chance we have. And lets start encouraging our fellow vapers to join CASAA!!!!!
     
  3. pianoguy

    pianoguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 4, 2009
    Apple Valley, MN
    Looking over the "Non Face-To-Face...." questions, a good bit of it centered around things such as requiring adult signatures for delivery, etc. to keep the products out of the hands of minors. I don't have a huge problem with that - this is already required for internet sales of adult beverages. Inconvenient, sure, but not the end of the world. We all know that enterprising youngsters will always find a way, but if those types of regulations appeased the nannies, I could live with it.
     
  4. FreakyStylie

    FreakyStylie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 22, 2010
    The Internet
    I love the United States! But I have more anger for what our current governing bodies are doing to it! There are so many things wrong with all of this that there is no possible way to sum it all up. We need serious change, and I'm not just talking the FDA and electronic cigarettes.

    In all reality, there is absolutely zero issue with internet sales in my opinion. Credit cards used to only be issued to those 18 years or older. Require tobacco products to be purchased online with (or linked to) a credit card and you have your age verification. If junior sneaks mom's credit card, that is a domestic issue that has nothing to do with governmental regulations of internet sales.

    I don't know ... I'm not extremely political ... all I know is that I'm a 40 year old citizen who pays the wages of these idiots who are supposed to be working for me. They need to be fired.
     
  5. pianoguy

    pianoguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 4, 2009
    Apple Valley, MN
    I couldn't agree more. But somewhere along the line we seem to have quit holding parents accountable and turned that job over to the gubbermint and schools, and that is going to take a long time to fix.
     
  6. FreakyStylie

    FreakyStylie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 22, 2010
    The Internet
    Only semi-related to the topic at hand, but I recently sat down with my son and watched the PMRC Senate hearings. My son (12 years old) was appalled at what the senators were saying about how it is "too much to ask of parents" to listen to the music their children are listening to. Mind you, we watched the actual hearings, and he kept asking if it was a movie, LOL.

    As far as fixing it ... I've almost given up hope on that. Most of the American public has been convinced that they are too stupid to actually care for themselves.
     
  7. Stubby

    Stubby Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Madison, WI USA
    The whole face to face thing can get complicated. That's what happened with snus since the PACT act kicked in on June of 2010. I can still get snus but not by USPS as its illegal for USPS to deliver cigarettes or smokeless tobacco (but they do deliver pipe tobacco and cigars which are not part of the PACT act). That means UPS is the only option. An adult signature is required.

    The bigger problem comes in when it comes to taxes. All taxes have to be payed at the point of sale. That means the vender has to collect the taxes and pay each state their due. Of course every state has different tax rates on Smokeless tobacco so it can get very complicated for the vender. There are also several states that do not allow any tobacco product to be sold via the internet. When the PACT act kicked in several smaller snus venders went out of business. At the moment there is only one snus vender with a warehouse in the USA.

    The situation is a bit different with e-liquid because as of yet there are no state or Fed taxes, but that will surely change in the future.
    There are many directions this could take and much of it depends on how hard the FDA is going to come down on the electronic cigarette industry. If they want to play hard ball this could get very bad.
     
  8. rothenbj

    rothenbj Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 23, 2009
    Green Lane, Pa
    The big issue with that is they prohibit the postal service and right now UPS is the only option. I can only speak about deliveries from Sweden, their cost is $30 an order up to a specific weight. This would force you into large orders as opposed to small ones to make it economical. As many have said, hardware shouldn't be an issue, as long as it bdoesn't include nicquid.
     
  9. jazzbo

    jazzbo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 23, 2011
    Orlando, Fl
    The problem is, the Nanny statists can't tolerate the fact that grown men and women should feel compelled to make their own minds up about the products they use and enjoy. The Wealth redistributionists are ticked off that we're bypassing the unjustified taxation that tobacco users shoulder and they can't fund their pet projects on the backs of smokers who choose to vape.

    Time to route every last one of these ignorant ......s out of office ASAP.
     
  10. sqirl1

    sqirl1 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 10, 2011
    St. Louis, MO
    I've ordered some random ST products from Lil Brown before and UPS shipping was only $8, if it's from within the US shipping won't be that bad. My concern is that Nicquid will be banned under the substantial equivalence clause because of what Bill was saying earlier.
     
  11. mostlyclassics

    mostlyclassics Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Clearly it's time to learn to DIY and stock up on nicquid before the real ugliness starts.

    I've got enough concentrated (100 mg./ml.) nicquid in my freezer to last until 2026.

    I'll stop acquiring when I have enough to last until 2043, in which year I'll be 95. :D
     
  12. Luisa

    Luisa Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2010
    harlingen,texas
    It is time to get political. Check the roster of the Senators and Reps that are fighting us. That should give you a clue about which direction to work politically. Check your Senators and your Reps position on ecigs. Lautenburg and Sherrod Brown are surely on our enemy list!
     
  13. Vapoor eyes er

    Vapoor eyes er ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2011
    Toronto, Ont.
    Thank you Bill. It's so frustrating when we've all seen the positive impact Ecigs have had on our health. Simply put Ecigs have saved my life and I support CASAA in their efforts to oppose this action.
     
  14. radamist

    radamist Full Member

    Pardon me for my noobish question.
    Are they trying to completely destroy ecig business or only nicotine containing products? What about zero nic juices?
     
  15. CES

    CES optimistic cynic Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2010
    Birmingham, Al
    Thanks for this thread Bill!


    It reminded me to get my donation into CASAA, and I'll see if i can't get a coherent comment in before the Dec 8 deadline Regulations.gov

    (and thanks for posting the link to the thread washvap- i don't stop by this forum enough lately)

    (radamist, my guess is that they'd prefer to completely destroy the e-cig business- but if they can only go after nic-liquids that's what they'll do)
     
  16. sqirl1

    sqirl1 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 10, 2011
    St. Louis, MO
    Read what bill said earlier. Basically, there's no WAY they could go after 0 nic e-juice and the hardware itself. they can try, but it would NEVER hold up in court.
     
  17. mn shutterbug

    mn shutterbug Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    Marshall, MN - USA
  18. FreakyStylie

    FreakyStylie Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 22, 2010
    The Internet
    I'm not the most coherent of public speakers, and go from idle to ludacris speed in the blink of an eye. My tendancy to rant would be more of a detriment to our cause, LOL. It entertains people when I go on rants, but doesn't offer a legitimate arguement to the government.

    As for who (doesn't) represent me ... I live in Oregon ... nobody represents me ... the baby-sit us here. We are one of the few states where you can't even order snus by UPS.

    Most I can do to be political is to help motivate others, and I am spreading the word through multiple mediums at the moment. I have a feeling, though, that I have a big rant building up right now, LOL.

    Accidentally sent when I sat on my phone.
     
  19. cracker75

    cracker75 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 18, 2010
    Washington State
    Would it be possible for vendors to try and label their nic products as "only for (electronic) pipes and cigars", thereby excluding their products from the new laws?
     
  20. JustaGuy

    JustaGuy Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 19, 2011
    Beyond The Sea
    You're right. This is quite a nanny state. We can't even fill up our cars, can't touch the gas pump. :glare:


    But OT, it sounds like they just want their cut by getting vendors to pay FDA to play? It means things get more expensive for us, of course. Argh...:grr:
     
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