FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[Bill Godshall]

I encourage objective and thoughtful discussion about potential FDA regulations for e-cigarettes to continue occurring in this thread, as its impossible to have a useful discussion in the new thread created by Smokey Joe this morning in the General E-Cigarette Discussion (as the vast majority of the rapidly growing number of comments have been posted by well intentioned folks who know little or nothing about the FSPTCA, the 2009 FDA e-cig ban, the "deeming" regulation or other issues involving FDA regulation).

 

[ElectricalSocket]

Wow, and of course they can't just be reasonable. Maybe some of these idiots actually do think they are 'saving the children'. Surely they could just tax us and get it over with instead of banning stuff. So my first thought was, 'this is 2013, is there really no way to verify age online or at least make it a pain in the ... for a kid to order online'? Came across THIS about Blu. Interesting. Then I saw THIS and realized they understand age verification software wouldn't cut it. Hence the banning.

Here's the thing about that though. Say little Johnny grabs mommys CC and orders the devils e-cig. Where the hell are the parents? It is his parents responsibility to not only know what he's up to, but keep track of their CC, actually LOOK at their CC statement every month, and maybe keep up with what mail they get. This is over-reaching and NOT the governments responsibility to raise OUR children and dictate that a legal product is not allowed to be ordered on-line and mailed to our house. These nazis are unbelievable. It's almost more sickening to me that it isn't just about the money wirh some of these people. They actually think they're doing a public service by trying to control OUR lives.

Secondly, they aren't banning shiz. Look up Silk Road. Looks like we're gunna need to download TOR. They will NOT stop is from staying off cigarettes and helping others do the same. They can't ban heating coils. As ignorant as they are, they must know this. The question is, where are we going to get black market nicotine? See this is the same BS they do to other substances. Certain chemical compounds of abuse are illegal and the ingredients to make them are harder and harder to obtain (I honestly don't know this from personal experience). So what happens? Do they save all the children? No, they indirectly KILL children/young adults because even more deadly chemicals are replaced for the proper chemical that is harder to obtain. When the hell are these fools going to learn?

How many people have to DIE because some jackass thought he was saving the children? Well that's great for their egos and everything, but it literally kills innocent people in the process. People who may or may not have permanently damaged their health by consuming something unhealthy for a short amount of time. So wrong on so many levels.

Honestly they aren't as stupid as I wish they were. They're going to try and make it impossible to get nicotine ourselves. Obviously they can't stop us, but again, the black market nicotine may be dangerous. What are we going to do? I have a feeling they aren't going to flake out AGAIN.

I know one thing I'm going to do: Make/sell Protank kits with a PT-2+PT-2 Mini+1300mah Spinner+650mah Spinner+Charger and basically give them away for as cheap as I can. We need numbers. Anyone with a smoking habit can afford $50-60.

Sorry for being over-dramatic, but they're probably going to follow through this time. I hope not. WL needs to get a few more employees. Am I over reacting? Either way we need to figure out what we're going to do when they do screw us.

 

[ElectricalSocket]

They ALL need to at least put SOMETHING on their websites. It would be stupid not to. What are these vendors thinking? Someone may find one of the vendors websites but know nothing about what's going on. We need every single voice possible.

 

[ElectricalSocket]

Hope my post doesn't add to the ignorance Bill, I sorta know what I'm talking about. Not really though

 

[Bill Godshall]

The FDA sent out the following e-mail today.

This Week in CTP - Updates from the Center for Tobacco Products

The FDA wants to correct inaccuracies in an August 22, 2013 article in the Wall Street Journal, titled “FDA Discusses Banning Online Sales of E-Cigarettes.”

The FDA frequently meets with members of the tobacco industry, as well as with public health groups and other stakeholders, to better understand any concerns or questions they may have. As part of this effort, “listening sessions” with e-cigarette companies have been held at their request and have given the FDA an opportunity to listen to their concerns or views.

“The FDA did not raise or weigh in on potential regulatory options—including any potential restrictions on e-cigarettes or any other particular product category—during these listening sessions,” said Mitch Zeller, director of the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products. “Any details about the agency’s intent to regulate additional categories of tobacco products will be made publicly available to all interested parties at the same time, through the issuance of a proposed rule.”

The FDA currently regulates cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco and smokeless tobacco. The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (TCA) permits the FDA to deem other “tobacco products” to be subject to the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act by regulation. The agency has announced its intent to issue a proposed rule deeming products meeting the definition of a “tobacco product” to be subject to FDA regulation.

 

[ElectricalSocket]

and this is where I'm 100% ignorant and would love if someone knew (Bill?). What about ordering direct from manufacters? Private e-mails/phone calls/etc? I'm assuming they would have to actually ban nicotine sales altogether to prevent that? Is that something they can easily do or do you know the process that would have to happen? Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[sbdivemaster]

Wow, and of course they can't just be reasonable. Maybe some of these idiots actually do think they are 'saving the children'. Surely they could just tax us and get it over with instead of banning stuff. ...

They actually think they're doing a public service by trying to control OUR lives.

The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. --C. S. Lewis

And, of course there's my old sig line:

Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. --Robert A. Heinlein

 

[spacekitty]

Here is an important update from CASAA!!

CASAA: Wall Street Journal clarifies report of FDA "online sales ban"


And they also ask this of everyone:

"CASAA members, please do not overwhelm FDA with emails today. Due to rumors about ecig internet ban, there have been calls to blitz them with emails and posting of their addresses. There is a time for such mass messaging, but it is most definitely not now. CASAA is talking to FDA Monday. A random deluge of messages now will make us look like a rabble, which we most definitely are not! Please save that for when it is useful."


Keep Calm and Vape!!

 

[Lisa Belle]

Wherever we stand, thanks to CASAA if we choose and I do to be in that number with leaders I trust .... I appreciate the heads up!

 

[Lisa Belle]

It felt good to have hope and a false sense of security. This week is about the most eye/ear opening equaling disturbing! The ANTZ are out in full force they look forward to a landslide victory against E-cigarettes and other non combustible forms of nicotine use. It is not a coincidence that the FDA and EU will rule against the free availability of a safe alternative to smoking, in order to reap the dividends it greedily feeds on. They are organized, and have been since the middle of the last century, to confuse, to shame and make victims of people who like nicotine in any form! In bed with the major news medias, to BLITZ US back into our SHAME ON YOU! if you stop nagging I pay these enflated taxes Modus operandi..the same as usual, reaping huge revenues via TAXES and sales of CIGARETTES, NRT, and controlling a huge portion of worldwide societies.

Never thought I would be a WAR REPORTER and it's not a complete list, but here is a short one:

ANTZ ... GAINS
Our view: Obvious danger requires fair and responsible rules | Duluth News Tribune | Duluth, Minnesota

Video Landing Page - Chicago News and Weather | FOX 32 News

"THE PEOPLE" GAINS
Ground-breaking study supports e-cigarettes' superiority over nicotine patches | American Council on Science and Health (ACSH)
E-Cigarettes - Freedom of Choice - YouTube

A very bad week and I am not using my crystal ball but this was a losing battle from the start, the ANTZ have had all the money all the power since the middle of the last century. They control every aspect of our freedom from how you raise your children, eat and to what toilet paper you buy!

 

[Lisa Belle]

What do I back this up with.... CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT ENCROACHMENT CITOYENS ANTI GOUVERNEMENT ENVAHISSANT: BELIEFS, MANIPULATION AND LIES IN THE TOBACCO ISSUE - Robert Molimard

CITIZENS AGAINST GOVERNMENT ENCROACHMENT CITOYENS ANTI GOUVERNEMENT ENVAHISSANT: INSIDE THE TOBACCO CONTROL INDUSTRY AND THEIR DECEITFUL TACTICS

 

[Koman]

Thanks for linking. Interesting stuff.

 

[Lisa Belle]

I agree ".........very interesting........but.....shtupid" lol

 

[hlk]

IMHO I believe they will create tough rules and expensive "licensing" fees that will make it impossible for 99% of the vape shops to keep their dooors open. The tobacco companies would be the only players with enough cash to monopolize the industry. I'm pretty sure they are going to kill internet sales totally. There is nothing worse than waiting for a decision that could close your business overnight. I wish these clowns would hurry up so we can move on..

 

[Lisa Belle]

@hlk I can't say your wrong. There is a distinctive, underhanded power mongering force called MO MONEY at work against free enterprise.
I still am busy as a bee, using my membership with casaa.org as a springboard for how to make our presence unforgettable and the DIYers like myself are going to do what we must. There are people growing their own who seriously have suspected this de-railment far in advance. I hear you and feel a disgust too. We'd love to be wrong here, it's just that the lies and who is promoting them is so well entrenched that the truth we know would take major revolution to over take the conglomera of organized contol over tobacco.
I WON'T SHAMED, BLAMED and TAXED TO DEATH!

 

[Bill Godshall]

Yesterday, Henry Waxman and other House Democrats repeated CDC's and FDA's false and misleading fear mongering claims about e-cigarettes in letters to FDA’s Margaret Hamburg and to House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairs, urging the latter to hold hearings and support FDA regulations.
Leading Democrats Call for Regulations, Hearings on E-Cigarettes and Other Tobacco Products | Congressman Henry Waxman
http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...g-Adolescent-Use-of-E-Cigarette-2013-9-16.pdf
http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...tts-E-Cigarette-Adoloescent-Use-2013-9-16.pdf

House Dems call for cigar, e-cigarette regulations over 'kid-friendly' products - The Hill's RegWatch

 

[State Of Zen]

IMHO I believe they will create tough rules and expensive "licensing" fees that will make it impossible for 99% of the vape shops to keep their dooors open. The tobacco companies would be the only players with enough cash to monopolize the industry. I'm pretty sure they are going to kill internet sales totally. There is nothing worse than waiting for a decision that could close your business overnight. I wish these clowns would hurry up so we can move on..

US based internet site sales, it is a possibility. Overseas sites I would think nearly impossible (the closest they could come to achieving this is banning imports of said items). For instance how could they kill/ban sales from Fast Tech and other vendors in China??? I may be overlooking something, but I don't see how they could. Anywho, time will tell. Peace.

 

[State Of Zen]

Yesterday, Henry Waxman and other House Democrats repeated CDC's and FDA's false and misleading fear mongering claims about e-cigarettes in letters to FDA’s Margaret Hamburg and to House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairs, urging the latter to hold hearings and support FDA regulations.
Leading Democrats Call for Regulations, Hearings on E-Cigarettes and Other Tobacco Products | Congressman Henry Waxman
http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...g-Adolescent-Use-of-E-Cigarette-2013-9-16.pdf
http://democrats.energycommerce.hou...tts-E-Cigarette-Adoloescent-Use-2013-9-16.pdf

House Dems call for cigar, e-cigarette regulations over 'kid-friendly' products - The Hill's RegWatch

Is there a list that breaks down (by state) which representatives/senators are pushing this anti-vaping legislation? I ask because I want to be aware if any of them are from my state, so I know who NOT to vote for in upcoming elections. Thanks!

 

[Lisa Belle]

While France and Germany are possibly taking a hands off any medicinal classification. This is such undemocracy it's pathetic!

 

[Bill Godshall]

The Bottom Line inquired

Is there a list that breaks down (by state) which representatives/senators are pushing this anti-vaping legislation? I ask because I want to be aware if any of them are from my state, so I know who NOT to vote for in upcoming elections.

The only members of Congress who have urged FDA to impose the "deeming" regulation (which would ban e-cigs once again unless FDA specifically exempts the products from several Chapter IX regulations) and other unwarranted regulations for e-cigs are several liberal Senate and House Democrats. These Senate Dems have also introduced legislation to tax e-cigs at the same rate as cigarettes.

But before the next election, we need to urge members of Congress to prevent the FDA from once again banning e-cigs, and from imposing other regulations on e-cigs that would ban nearly all of the products and eliminate nearly all e-cig companies.