FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[grandmato5]

Here is an angle that we had not even thought about. What if the FDA colludes with other government Agencies to make things as difficult as possible?



E-Cigarettes Coming of Age : Convenience Store Decisions

This is a very good reason why we would prefer that e-cigarettes are NOT considered a tobacco product.

There are so many rules and regulations that could potentially effect our ecigs if that deeming order offically making them a tobacco product ever goes into effect that its mind boggling sometimes.

Individuals may import tobacco products for their own personal use without having a licence BUT as we've seen in the past, that doesnt mean that customs easily follows the rules

How many are familiar with the postal regulations reguarding the mailing of tobacco products ? That's another area that would become a nightmare for us because the majority of the business is done through mail order. Besides that, IF we are honest about whats in our packages it would get mighty expensive for individuals to PIF to each Not to mention inconvenient seeing as one would have to go to the PO to mail any tobacco product package.

Of coarse the biggest question remains exactly what parts of our ecigs would be regulated by the FDA and subject to tobacco rules and regulations. I personally have no doubt in my own mind that the FDA will attempt to use the broadest definition they can get away with. In the long run, might not be all so bad as the wider they attempt to make that definition of what parts of our ecigs they can control the more chance it could be taken to court and successively challenged

 

[Agorizer]

<snip>

Sin taxes are the easiest way to get the poorest people to voluntarily pay more taxes. It's not a secret that only one political party knows. In fact it is Global (although not Universal) and Governments have become more addicted to the taxes from tobacco than we ever were to the tobacco! Lol

I agree, except for the "voluntarily" part. Any tax, by definition, is not voluntary. (clue=any law is a threat of force)

Don't worry he'll keep his word! His word to Big Business, for that is truly who and what he represents. I will post no further on this subject or any other political discussions on the forum. Just remember those few words. If he wins the big companies will take over and drive all the little guys out.

Surprise--politicians (the "public face" of the state monopoly of force) pay back their supporters. Whoda' thunk?!?

If you find an underground source keep it secure!

If YOU find an underground source, PM me!!

Here is an angle that we had not even thought about. What if the FDA colludes with other government Agencies to make things as difficult as possible?

IF?

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

Here is an angle that we had not even thought about. What if the FDA colludes with other government Agencies to make things as difficult as possible?



E-Cigarettes Coming of Age : Convenience Store Decisions

This is a very good reason why we would prefer that e-cigarettes are NOT considered a tobacco product.

Thank you for the article.

It mentions, "Only Minnesota has an OTP (other tobacco product) tax on it right now, but there’s no question in my mind that you will see states putting restrictions on them."

Could someone enlighten me to what the taxes in Minnesota are applied to and the rate? I would appreciate it.

I don't wish to give ammunition to the enemy, however I am sure they have considered many more scenarios than I am capable of imagining. A restriction on mailing batteries, juice, nicotine, etc would make life very hard for vapers in other than large cities. Vendors in large centers would have the population base to support a walk-in business.

Like they have stopped the flow of drugs, their misguided efforts to stop vaping (or tax it excessively) may force it underground and we all know who we would be dealing (literally, Lol) with. The idea of completely stopping the sale of anything is ridiculous. Hence the approach of excessive taxation.

Luckily, so far, their idea of vaping is small batts and pre-filled carts. Naturally that is also the retail dream to have a non-rechargeable battery and non-refillable carto that would have to be purchased much like cigarettes. One thing they may not have considered is that vaping may lead to smoking cessation, and nicotine, by itself, in e-cigs may be easier to quit than from other sources. In other words, vaping may not be a life long addiction. The number of vapers may not continue to grow exponentially.

I really would like more info from Minnesota.

 

[xanderxman]

And the FDA wants to regulate my vape?!?!? 106 Years After

As far as I can see the FDA is a useless bunch of money grubbers looking out for themselves.

 

[Bash123]

Hang on a second. I read the report and there is not even one mention of e-Cigs or Electronic Cig, etc... I don't get your point about dems if the report does not back up your argument!!

 

[Charlie C]

I just sent Rush Limbaugh an e-mail

hopefully he'll help us get the message out!

I know Rush has cig like PVs, wonder if he has a Cigar PV?
Love him or hate him he'd be a great advocate for the industry!!!!
Think I'll go shoot him a message too.

 

[Charlie C]

And the FDA wants to regulate my vape?!?!? 106 Years After

As far as I can see the FDA is a useless bunch of money grubbers looking out for themselves.

Whilst I agree with what you said to some extent they do have a place.
They just forget who and where they are at times and politics, well, it damn well everywhere!!

 

[Lisa Belle]

Big ineffective Government!

 

[jlew]

Big ineffective Government!

I second that!

This gov in the USA is nothing short of a "Control Happy Dictatorship" that would like nothing less than to
have say over how much air you can breathe.

We are Adults (at least those of us who are), and it should be OUR decision what WE do with OUR bodies.
And since WE want to quit all of the chemicals found in analog cigarettes, who gives YOU (the Gov) the right
to say we can't?

It is my opinion that the Gov must get some from of kickback from the sale of cigarettes, and while under a
guise of "Stomp Out Smoking"... they really don't want you to!
They don't want people to stop smoking Harmful cigarettes because it would stop the flow of tax dollars
from tobacco, it would stop the flow of money made in the medical field from those who suffer from the
effects of cigarettes, it would put thousands out of work if cigarette and tobacco companies were to
go under... And you know the FDA is in their back pockets... why else would they allow so many Truly Harmful
things out on the market without first making 100% absolutely sure it is safe?
MONEY! - "We must make the money... and if it kills anyone, well, we will cross that bridge when we get to it."
That appears to be how it is - why else would we have all these lawsuits out there over "FDA Approved" drugs
and medical items so many years later. And I still truly believe that most of the Autism and birth defects that
have popped up over the past few years is due to all the BS Over Vaccinating and Prenatal "Must Haves" that
are basically forced on us by all the propaganda and laws we have saying we "Have to or else...".

Sure they want to ban or tax it out of reach... they make money off of what they say they want us
to stop using.

The USA is so control happy that they are out there trying to tell the rest of the world how they should
be living... but we can't even get it right here at home!

Think of it this way... the USA Gov = Mom and Dad, and the population of it = the children...
Parents should never contradict themselves to their children by saying they are not allowed to do something
without being good role models and setting good examples for their children to live by FIRST!

Is it no wonder we are laughed at by almost every other country out there?

The only thing that will make it all change is - The People.
The people of the USA have to stop living in a delusional idea that our gov is our provider and protector...
because when it all hits the fan, they will proclaim Martial Law and the only ones they will provide for and
protect will be themselves.

I Love the USA but I fear my Government and I fear for the future of our children who will have to live in
this mess.


I love famous quotes but I have to say that THIS is my all time favorite of all:
The reason I love it so much is because this Nation left England for the very same reasons they are re-creating now.

From the movie "The Patriot"

Mr. Howard: We ARE citizens of an American nation! And our rights are being threatened by a tyrant three thousand
miles away!
Benjamin Martin: Would you tell me please, Mr. Howard, why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for
three thousand tyrants one mile away? An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as a king can.


And our "Elected Legislature" is doing just that.

 

[Lisa Belle]

Way True (jlew) way true!

 

[Lisa Belle]

Commentary: The Old Tobacco Industry Playbook and A Game That Two Can Play | The Partnership at Drugfree.org

spinning webs of deceit, whilst lining their pockets

then to top it off blame it on nicotine addicts this time smokers... too sick for words:
http://nannyingtyrants.blogspot.com/2012/10/superstorm-sandy.html

Special thanks to Bill Godshall's tireless unearthing of the opposition's spins!!! Thanks Bill Godshall... to be continued

 

[Drael]

Most likely will be a terrible law. Most likely cause harm. In objectivity, while the industry could use some regulation (manufacturing standards, ingredient labelling etc, testing on the composition of tobacco extracts), not all that much is needed. It is after all a replacement for something that shortens 50% of users lives. It is also a replacement for something that does not currently have to list its ingredients, or have manufacturing standards!

I just think that regulation should offer some basic consumer protection, and then stay the heck out of our personal lives. I doubt thats how this will turn out.

 

[KatlandKat]

This whole thread seems to be dealing with just the US and the FDA. Is there a spot on the forum for Canadians?
Sorry know off topic sorta but I have no info on what is happening in Canada

 

[sonicdsl]

This whole thread seems to be dealing with just the US and the FDA. Is there a spot on the forum for Canadians?
Sorry know off topic sorta but I have no info on what is happening in Canada

There's a whole sub-forum for Canada: Canada Forum

I hope this helps!

 

[jlew]

Most likely will be a terrible law. Most likely cause harm. In objectivity, while the industry could use some regulation (manufacturing standards, ingredient labelling etc, testing on the composition of tobacco extracts), not all that much is needed. It is after all a replacement for something that shortens 50% of users lives. It is also a replacement for something that does not currently have to list its ingredients, or have manufacturing standards!

I just think that regulation should offer some basic consumer protection, and then stay the heck out of our personal lives. I doubt thats how this will turn out.

I can agree with that... if there is any form of law created to "Administrate" or "Govern", I too am quite
sure it will be a harmful one in some way.

I do agree however that this "industry" (if you will) could use some form of minor regulation such as labeling
because as it stands now, no one can be absolutely sure what ingredients are in some liquids... although
most who make and sell them are aware of the nicotine content and its dangers if too high... but...
Even though most of us know PG/VG/Flavoring/Nicotine/and Water are in the majority of them, who can
say for 100% that what they get from one company hold true at another?
With all the happenings going on with Pet Foods and Baby Foods in recent years, what is stopping
someone from doing major damage to a large number of people before anyone catches the glitch?

That is why I ask all prospective sellers that I am considering buying from, can they guarantee the
nic content and how can they do that, what ratio is their mix set at, what are the ingredients of
the liquid as a whole and in the flavorings used... etc.

It is a Trust Based system right now and we all know how easy it could be to deal a serious blow
in large numbers in such a small way -- A very good example would be the Hoax that went around
about so-called plans at terrorist attacks on Coke products back in 2002 through 2008.
If infecting millions of people could be as easy as tampering with a shipment of Coca Cola -- Who
knows what could really happen and ANY unprotected and unregulated product that is consumed
by humans could be a target.

This is a danger we face in just about everything now days... we even have to be concerned about
what we buy off the grocery store shelf... so yeah, I can see where some regulation might come in
handy.

The only problem I see is... if regulated, will that mean no one can make it and sell it without a specific
type of training or license, will it be made only by a lab environment, and how much will it cost for the
finished product due to all the inspections and people it would take to "regulate" and produce it under
such regulation.

Very Touchy Item it is.

 

[damthisisfun]

Nothing can ever be 100% guaranteed - look at what happened with the recent Pharma fiasco and them supposedly knowingly distributing mold tainted steroid shots......ppl died - ppl are sick and more may die - all for money.........now that sure pisses me off......ppl make mistakes - machines make mistakes - like they say - only 2 things are guaranteed - death n taxes...........

 

[tc1]

The FDA is a joke. Their opinions are based on politics and not science. Always laugh when they mention "our studies". Their "studies" are agenda-based ... period.

Having said that. Forcing vendors to label and lab test IS a good idea imho. We should have a right to know what's in our juices especially.

 

[Lisa Belle]

I want to make my own juices as I have been for over 1.5 years. I buy nic from vendors that guarantee, it has been tested. Flavorings, food grade, |'m pretty sure are safe, and kosher glycerin and propylene glycol from Tractor Supply for horses. Regulating the juice ingredients is potentially going to make vaping UNaffordable. That's what a lot of us don't want. I don't sell my juices, I use them. It's the DIY vaping community that stands to be controlled if not obliterated. Then they will be regulating the electronic parts, the list could become all inclusive and make vaping as we have it today a moment in time, like the summer of love in the sixties, only those of us who were there and enjoyed this freedom, will be able to tell their grandchildren about it. Or be slick enough to stock up on nic, and lots of rebuildables. Then there is the idea, why not quit nic? Gradually reduce the nic in the juice till cravings have been alleviated. Hm I am not ready LOL to quit nic, though I can go long periods without vaping, so I am sure, my nicotine use is already less than when I smoked. If big tobacco Lorilard has Blu E-cig commercials, and they do, during the TWC (weather channel's Super Storm Sandy primetime newscasts), it seems, clear that big tobacco can afford to deal with the cost of regulation, and the taxes of course will be sin taxes as per usual paid by the end users. Litigation could be lengthy and the supreme court could finally deal with tobacco. There is much at stake, only if the big tobacco stops making real cigs and only produces safe e-cigs, is that a fantasy or what? I haven't had my coffee yet, this may all be foggy ideas.... still the dialog should continue.

 

[KatlandKat]

There's a whole sub-forum for Canada: Canada Forum

I hope this helps!

Thank you so much for the link to the Canadian Forum.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

Thank you so much for the link to the Canadian Forum.

I sent you a PM with some pertinent Canadian shopping info.

This thread is worth watching since the FDA decisions are referenced by many other countries as "proof" of the good or evil of items. Even HC 's references to smoking quote FDA findings!

Relax, Enjoy!