The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

GG Customers Comments

Discussion in 'The GG' started by Kendra, May 18, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. Kendra

    Kendra Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 21, 2009
    Nashville
    I love love love this. Thank you thank you. I had a hard time opening it because I was trying to open the wrong side, lol. But, then I finally opened the right side, stuck in my battery and started vaping-- it's just excellent. I love it. Thank you.

    I have one question. .. how do you adjust the button and why does anyone want to? It's really great as it is!
     
  2. imeothanasis

    imeothanasis Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 13, 2009
    Athens, Hellas
    Hi Kendra, I am very glad you like the GG sweety. Thanks for your comments:)

    You can ajust the button like this:

    1) open the front cup

    2) at the botton of the button there is a little nut. You can screw or unscrew it and you will see the button's head goes up and down, so you ajust the path, the hardness and the button's head height. I have make the best ajustment to my opinion, so let it as it is.

    Thanks again honey, I am sure that you will love this little but powerful baby:)


    I will change the name of this thread to: "customers comments". We can talk here about the results from the GG use, your comments and how happy or unhappy you are from the machine
     
  3. truelove

    truelove PV Casanova ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 2, 2009
    Bronx, NY
    Imeo,
    I dont know where to begin.
    looks = to kill, smaller in my hand then in your videos,GREAT!
    Vapor = (I dont know how you or tim can take 5 sec drags) MONSTER !
    Construction = solid and light.
    It is a 300.00 dollar unit.
    Batt life = still on the first set and my head is in cloud 9.
    I found my true love thanks to you, tim and iken.
    Thank you, Really thank you very much.
     
  4. Kendra

    Kendra Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 21, 2009
    Nashville
    I wanted to add how great this is now that I've been vaping it (at 6v) for the past several hours. Also, I didn't mention how solid it feels. It definitely feels like something from a past era. It's just SOLID. Yet it's still sleek-- it's really excellent. I don't know how you can take five second drags, either. It's just perfect.

    I do have a question, though. I am not using the 801 or the adapter-- I'm using the 901 with 6v. And, I've had 1 atomizer burn out immediately and I tested that one with a circuit tester-- it's really dead. I've used two others that aren't dead according to the circuit tester, but they aren't working now. . . they would work, then all of a sudden, just stop and stay cold. And, I've had great luck with atomizers since I've been vaping, so I don't know if that's how they stop working or not, since none of mine have really just stopped mid-drag like that.

    This fourth atomizer I'm using now is doing fine. I'll try to revive the other two non-dead ones, because they SHOULD work.

    What do you think's going on with the atomizers? These are regular 901s, which I have great luck with, normally.

    EDITED: Okay, my fourth atomizer just stopped working. Any ideas? Thanks.
     
  5. truelove

    truelove PV Casanova ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 2, 2009
    Bronx, NY
    Did you keep them wet?
    As in did you drip 2,3 drop of ejuice every 10 drags(it eats alot of juice)
    and then let it cool down(it gets super hot).
    I have not had a problem all day(my atomizer is one month old and never vaped so good).
     
  6. Kendra

    Kendra Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 21, 2009
    Nashville
    Yes, and they aren't flooded. I blew on them to make sure, and a couple drops of liquid came out (of both that should be working) and they still aren't working.

    Number four IS working. . . I jumped the gun on that one. It's fine so far.
     
  7. truelove

    truelove PV Casanova ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 2, 2009
    Bronx, NY
    How old is your atomizer?
     
  8. Kendra

    Kendra Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 21, 2009
    Nashville
    2 were not brand new, but two were.

    This fourth one isn't working now either. I have lots of mods-- I do drip and keep my atomizers wet. I now switched to 3.7 since I don't know what to do. It's okay with 3.7, but I want to use the 6v.
     
  9. truelove

    truelove PV Casanova ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 2, 2009
    Bronx, NY
    Im so sorry.
    I havnt tried 3.7 yet(6v is to sweet right now to stop)
    Maybe imeo, tim or iken can help since i dont have a clue.
    sorry.
     
  10. NicoTico

    NicoTico Full Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Hi guys,
    I apologize throwing a cold shower on this enthusiast community, but there's something I believe should be known. Sorry Imeo, but I'm sure you'll agree that it's better to be safe than sorry.

    I'm punching myself on the head for not having thought of this earlier, but so it happened. What awoke me was Tim's video, it made me smile because he makes a wishful guess that the autonomy of the GG would be big. This started a chain of thoughts that led me to notice some worrying facts. Let me share it:

    The GG should run at least twice as long since it uses not one but two batteries, right? Wrong!!! Since it uses two batteries it will last only half of the time.

    What? Is Tico crazy? LOL, no I'm not. I have been doing electronics as a hobby for some decades. Ask anyone who knows just the basics of electronics (Ohm's Law and what Watts are) and he/she will confirm that all what follows is right.

    There are two ways of joining two batteries: in parallel or in series.
    If you put them in parallel the voltage will remain the same. (What is voltage? It's a bit like the equivalent of what pressure is in hydraulics. Just for the sake of understanding, it's like the strength with which the electricity inside the battery is pushing.) At the same time the ability to produce current doubles. You can have twice the current for the same time or the same current for twice the time (What is current? It's a measure of how much electricity flows from the positive pole to the negative. The equivalent in hydraulics could be how many gallons per minute flow inside a pipe.)

    If instead you connect the two batteries in series (as they are inside the GG) the voltage doubles and the capacity to produce current remains the same.
    But if you double the voltage that you apply to the atomizer, also the current that flows through it will double. This is what Ohm's law says: I = V/R or, in plain English: the current that flows is equal to the voltage applied divided by the resistance. (What is resistance? The word itself says is: it's the resistance that any object opposes to an electrical current trying to flow through it). The resistance of the atomizer has not changed, it's the very same atomizer, but with two batteries in series the voltage is doubled and as a consequence also the current that flows through the atomizer doubles.

    As we saw earlier, the capacity to sustain an electrical current of two batteries in series is the same as that of a single battery. So, since the current has doubled and the capacity is still the same the batteries will last only half of the time.

    Quite unexpected, isn't it? I guess that most or maybe everyone, just as Tim, would have thought: With two batteries it will last twice longer. The surprise is that it will only last half the time instead.

    And now the real trouble starts.....

    Let's talk about power. What is power? In physics it's the capacity to produce work. And in electricity power is measured in Watts. Everyone met them, but what are they exactly? Power, in Watts, is the product of the voltage by the current. But if the voltage has doubled, and also the current has doubled the power, the Watts we are feeding into the atomizer, has quadrupled! Yes, 2 times the voltage by 2 times the current makes 4 times the power (the Watts).

    Once again quite unexpected, isn't it? I believe that Imeo, and many with him, believed the GG was running at twice the normal rate. Two batteries = twice the power, simple isn't it? No, it's wrong, the GG with 2 batteries runs at 4 times the power!!! Where does that power go? That power goes inside the atomizer where it is converted into heat. 4 times furiously more heat! Scary!

    You look at it this way: We doubled the batteries but they last only half, it means we are using the electricity four times faster.

    Allow me to add another physics phenomenon that is useful. No worry, it's very simple: what happens when we put a pan of water on the fire? The fire heats the water up to 100 degrees celsius (You imperial people know for sure how much that is in fahrenheit. Forgive me, I don't) then the water starts to boil and more and more water turn into steam (water vapor if you prefer the term). And what about the temperature? While there's still water the temperature remains at a 100 degrees and does not rise above that. Why not? Because at standard pressure water cannot exist in liquid form at temperatures above 100. And all of the heat that we supply does not raise the temperature but instead causes more water to evaporate. Only when there is no more water left the heat can make the temperature raise above 100.

    Back to our atomizer: inside it too there is some liquid that is heated and turns into vapor. But there's a big difference: in the pan the water is all there from the start. In the atomizer, the liquid is fed by some very porous material that uses capillarity to move it. What is capillarity? When a liquid encounters a small passage, there's a force that develops and tends to attract the water to fill the passage. That effect is called capillarity, and the tinier the passage, the stronger the force pushing the liquid through it. An example: hold some piece of fabric above a container full of water and lower it to touch the water. Water will soak the fabric and move upwards, even if that movement is against the force of gravity. How does that happen? It's the capillary force that develops in the tiny spaces between the very fibers of the fabric itself that pulls the water up.

    Inside the atomizer there are pieces of sintered metal and fiberglass fibers that do the same, and through capillarity feed the juice from the cartridge to the heating coil. What is sintered metal? Get some metal in small particles, can be anything from small spheres down to fine powder. Heat it close to (but still below) its melting point and press it hard together. The skin of the particles will fuse together, but only the skin. All the spaces between the particles will remain and form a web of tiny passages, like an ultra-fine metal sponge. Those passages will have a very strong capillary effect and will drain and move liquids, exactly like the fabric dipped in water does.
    That is what the arc shaped piece you can see inside the atomizers does. The surface looks quite grainy, doesn't it? That's because it's sintered metal, small metal grains pressed together into a metal sponge.


    --- Let's make a pause here: all what I described up to here is sure, 100% physics, 100% facts. What follows is only possibility, some of it might happen, or maybe it doesn't, I don't know for sure. I know some electronics but too little chemistry. Maybe some other member knows and can tell us more about it (please).


    What happens when we supply 4 times more power to our atomizer? More liquid will vaporize, that's the desired effect, and is everyone's experience with the GG. But can the device supply liquid to the heating coil 4 times faster? I don't know for sure but would bet it can't. Systems usually are built with some margin, but I don't think that margin here could be "4 times higher than the expected". It would be anti-economical, bigger i.e. no longer "cigarette-size", and there would be no reason to overdo it that much.

    So what happens if the heat generated is more than what's needed to vaporize the highest flow the feeding system can deliver? In other words: what if, after vaping all of the liquid that is reaching the heater at the max possible flow, there's still some extra heat left? Please remember that the passages the liquid moves through are very small: while that grants a strong capillarity, it also impedes great speeds and big flows. As we saw earlier with the pan once all the water is gone, that extra heat would raise the temperature beyond boiling point. Does it happen in the atomizer too? I don't know for sure but my strong opinion is that it does. And if that actually happens, what are the effects, what are the consequences? Again I don't know for sure, maybe someone more expert in chemistry does know and can tell us. But what I fear might happen is that once they are subject to temperatures higher than the expected one, some materials like plastic or wires insulations might start releasing some undesired and easily unhealthy fumes. And is it possible that some of the components of the juice when subjected to higher temperatures could react together or break down, producing some other unexpected compound? Could some of these be dangerous? I don't know, anyone here does?

    But it scares me a bit... One of the prides of e-cigs over analogs is that by not burning, not using a flame, they do not produce any additional unhealthy compound. Are we sure we're not raising the temperature high enough to start doing some of that in e-gigs too? I don't know, but it would really be a sad step-back if we did.

    One thing I know: I quickly get rather hot vapors that also burn my throat. Not the kick we expect and love, rather an acid etching unpleasant sensation. Sorry guys, but that is my experience and I don't like it. I don't like it because it doesn't feel pleasant and it doesn't feel healthy.


    One final due note: because the double batteries that are used have a voltage that is a bit lower than than the standard single one, the actual power increase is not exactly 4 times, but rather around 3 times. Still looks too much and a bit scary to me. I believe that some sure validation would still be wise, before accepting that as OK and safe.

    Rather, to have it run at just twice the power, total voltage should be raised from 3.6 only to 5.1 volts. Two 2.5 volts batteries would do that, if they can be found.


    So help and info from a chemist is much needed here to have some final answers and hopefully some reassurance. Thanks.

    -----

    I'm not mother-language and I don't have a degree in science: there might be mistakes in the text above. If there's any, I apologize. Just point them out, please, and I'll correct them. Thank you.
     
  11. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    All I know is that one single approximately AAA sized e-cig battery lasts me for a couple of hours and my mod with 4 AA batteries in series lasts for nearly two days of vaping. So the GG is just as likely to last a long time as well.
     
  12. Gofo2

    Gofo2 Full Member

    Mar 19, 2009
    St. Louis, Missouri
    NicoTico, wish you had been my physics teacher! I had to take a year of physics and 2 years of chemistry, I was in my 30's so I remember enough that what you are saying makes total since. I was wondering if you have the time if you could give us the equations on some of the more popular models. I know my SD gets much hotter on the 901 (actually the RN4075) than my TW 901 e-cig. It isn't burning out atomizers though, it seems to make them run longer, possibly enough heat to keep the atomizer from clogging up but not so much as to burn it either (if you do't let it dry out). It feels that way, but I'd like for someone to work out the optimal power to give the best performance and length of life to an atomizer, 901 preferably. I know this isn't the topic of the thread though, but I wanted you to see it. Please feel free to move my post if need be.
     
  13. NicoTico

    NicoTico Full Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    At the best of my knowledge what you said doesn't add up.

    If you raise the voltage to a device (that has no internal current limiting circuit) four times you get 4 times more current, 4 times less duration and 16 times more supplied power.

    AA batteries have more capacity than AAA, not sure how much more though. But even if they had 4 times more, you would still get the same duration. I can't see any way you can extend it that much.

    I'm quite sure that the laws I mentioned are correct: V = I x R and P = V x I
    The first is Ohm's law and can also be written as: I = V / R
    Put those together and you get: P = V2 / R (V2 is V squared)

    Google around and you'll see that's correct.

    4 batteries in series give you 4 times more voltage and 4 times more "total usable power" (not best expression, but for the sake of ease of understanding...)

    If V is 4 times, V squared is 16 times. From last equation, you're feeding your device 16 times more power. But if you have 4 times "total usable power" and you're using it 16 times faster, how can your batteries last longer?

    Unless there is a circuit inside that limits the current flow. In that case it would behave exactly as if you had put your batteries in parallel.

    And that's what you should do for duration, because parallel does only and exactly that.
    It does not change the voltage nor the current but only multiplies the duration by the number of batteries, in your case 4 times. Add that you are using higher capacity batteries (AA instead of AAA) and you might get closer to your figure. But only if they are in parallel or your circuit has a current limiter inside.
     
  14. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    I understand your electrical reasoning but I think it could be that the batteries themselves provide the resistance that reduces the current despite the higher voltage. Therefore providing much longer life. I am not an electrical wizz but I think there are also things like voltage drop to take into account.
     
  15. NicoTico

    NicoTico Full Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Gofo,
    I don't think that can be found out other than by experimentation.

    Let me try and explain: two different atomizers with the same resistance. Connected to the same voltage they allow the same current to run through, and absorb (convert to heat) the same power. From the outside you can tell no difference, all values are the same. If you measure their resistance you get identical values.

    But one uses a thin short wire as heating coil. The other uses a wire that has twice the section and is twice as long. First one is much cheaper because it uses a lot less copper. But because its section is smaller it can withstand much less current.

    Have you ever seen the fuses for audio amplifiers or similar electronic devices? They are a thin short wire inside a protective glass tube. A thin short wire like our first atomizer. That's how cheaper stuff is usually made: less material, very thin safety margins.

    The second atomizer costs more to produce but can cope with much higher currents without damage.

    From the outside you cannot tell one from the other, they measure the same. But inside they are built very different.

    Only way to find out is connect each to a variable power supply and a meter, then raise the voltage until it burns and note down when it happens. Then you know. But your atomizer is dead. Sorry.

    Then you mention optimal power to get best performance and life. Best performance is a very personal concept: for two different people the ideal could be quite a different thing.
    Also, if best performance means more vapor, that's against life. If one goes up the other goes down and vice versa. Can you explain in simple words where the ideal balance between the two is?

    I'm a ....... to ask such a question, I know. But I did it on purpose to show that If you yourself cannot say, how could I do it for you and calculate or measure what voltage is needed to get there?


    Sorry for failing your request.
     
  16. NicoTico

    NicoTico Full Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Pete, there is and it's called Internal Resistance.

    But that is very little and negligible, or else batteries would see their voltage drop too much once they are connected and put to work.

    I read that for Lithium batteries is around 0.32 ohms. I measured the resistance of atomizers, and that is around 3.4 ohms. So the energy that is lost inside the battery is less than one tenth the energy fed to the atomizer. Doesn't make any significant difference.
     
  17. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    I expect one of the electrical gurus will have an explanation ....have you taken into account the electrical resistance of the wiring and the switch as well ? ..There is certainly something that is messing up all your calculations.
     
  18. NicoTico

    NicoTico Full Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Pete, all those resistances do exist but they should have been made small enough not to interfere.

    You should remember that a resistance converts the energy it dissipates into heat. If the resistance of a wire was too high it would produce too much heat. There are tables and laws too that state what is the minimum wire section for every current.
    At best you'd be wasting too much energy in the wires for nothing. At worst the progressive heat buildup can start a fire.

    What you mention does exist but is taken into account, calculated and all is sized so as to keep it very small.

    How can your "whatever your e-cig is" sustain a voltage FOUR times higher than the one it was built for. I've never heard of any electrical device that could do that. Also your greatly extended duration goes against it.

    Are you sure your batteries are in series? What you describe sounds (almost.... totally?) like a miracle. Forgiver me, but it can't be, there must be something else.
     
  19. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Four 1.2 volt rechargeable batteries in series actually total about 5.6 volts fully charged so that isn't that much more than an atty was designed for and they give me nearly two whole days of very heavy vaping before needing a recharge. ....I am sure the GG will have a very similar length of vaping time without needing a recharge.
     
  20. NicoTico

    NicoTico Full Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    I would have nothing new to add.
    Unless some more info can be recovered, or some test be performed we risk running in circles, only repeating the same things we already said.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice