Got a response from my state rep and it's not good

[bombastinator]

...I think what Don is saying is that we all CHOSE to smoke.

A cigarette sitting in a pack is doing no harm.

Which is why there is so much issue with the teen thing I think. Kids aren’t good at making choices, and a parent attempts to influence the choices they make.
Addiction affects the ability to make choices though. Hence my statement about addiction medicine.


e-cigarettes allow people to have a choice to stop smoking though. According to the states logic

 

[classwife]

BINGO! We all have choices and you can't blame the tool. It's the operator of the tool that must take responsibility for the consequences, good or bad.
In Kalifornia atleast the idea of raising taxes on cigarettes was to make it unaffordable or expensive to smoke so people will quit. They were using the tax money for many different programs. It worked and people quit smoking. Some used vaping and some used other methods. Then they were complaining that these programs were not feasible because they were losing the funding. Something had to be done to replace the lost taxes. I can imagine Kalifornia isn't the only state where this happened.

WE DON'T WANT YOU TO SMOKE !! IT'S BAD FOR YOU !! IT'S DISGUSTING !! QUIT !!!
Oh ! Wait !
We aren't getting all that tax money now - oh nooooo !
Smoke, SMOKE, SMOKE !

 

[bombastinator]

BINGO! We all have choices and you can't blame the tool. It's the operator of the tool that must take responsibility for the consequences, good or bad.
In Kalifornia atleast the idea of raising taxes on cigarettes was to make it unaffordable or expensive to smoke so people will quit. They were using the tax money for many different programs. It worked and people quit smoking. Some used vaping and some used other methods. Then they were complaining that these programs were not feasible because they were losing the funding. Something had to be done to replace the lost taxes. I can imagine Kalifornia isn't the only state where this happened.

The word responsibility is its own definition: ability to respond. If one no longer has the ability to respond responsibility becomes difficult.

So back to the political dog whistling I see. “Kalifornia” huh?

 

[bombastinator]

WE DON'T WANT YOU TO SMOKE !! IT'S BAD FOR YOU !! IT'S DISGUSTING !! QUIT !!!
Oh ! Wait !
We aren't getting all that tax money now - oh nooooo !
Smoke, SMOKE, SMOKE !

it does look like that is what may have been happening. Possibly was happening for at least some. though from the sudden truncating and blocking of legislation it might also be that the causality connection wasn’t widely made until smoking rates started to go up again. Still may not be widely made. Despite multiple warnings. “Sin taxes” are often a lousy way to make revenue. A decent enough way to control a practice but it has dangers. The big big mistake I think was becoming dependent on that revenue to support other things. It makes those other things dependent on the continuance of a different problem, as we are seeing. In any case it’s water under the bridge now. The revenue has been spent and the issues are connected. A solution needs to be found. A tax on e-cigarettes is stupid, pointless, and would suck. The banning of e-cigarettes would also suck and it seems to be on the table. Least bad choice time.

 

[stratus.vaping]

I was told on another forum that cbd is a terpene just as THC is.

Figuring that out whether that is true has not been easy for me. There are numerous web pages titled things like “the difference between CBD and terpenes” but they don’t seem to actually define a difference, instead talking about the many helpful terpenes in hemp extracts. The wiki for terpene gives examples but does not seem to me specifically define what a terpene is. It does say that terpenoids and terpenes are often called by each other’s names which further confuses things. The CBD wiki also does not seem to say what it is or is not. All I can figure out is that terpenes and terpenoids at least tend to have benzine rings in them, but lots of hydrocarbons do.
IF CBD is a terpene (or terpenoid?) having no terpenes would mean having no CBD.

As for “most commonly” I’m not sure about that. May depend on in what instance. It CAN be done that way. It’s more expensive though.

electrodave put it well a bit lower down. In the EU at least, 90% of "vape shop" shelf CBD liquids are made from isolate, there is no oil in that isolate. All they do is buy the isolate and mix it up, well the wholesaler does, much of it is CO2 extracted. Some of that isolate is made in China.. in a shed maybe, using oil, alcohol, methane, spiders web who knows... I don't touch isolate or vapeshop CBD.

There is indeed so much rubbish and misinformation around about the CBD topic it is indeed very difficult to find the scientific facts, on any forum that's even more unlikely. Ask a chemist with first hand experience, not me, I did 8)

As you can read in my posts in the CBD section ( where this conversation is best undertaken tbh) I use a large UK company that does it's own supercritical CO2 extraction from raw hemp. Then they add a few hemp derived terpenes back in for the so called "entourage effect". I have seen and checked out their lab reports, as everyone should. I have spoken to the owner who, as a chemist, is very knowledgeable.

If I consume something I want to know, as far as possible, what is in it. We grow organic veg, have food animals etc etc.

 

[bombastinator]

electrodave put it well a bit lower down. In the EU at least, 90% of "vape shop" shelf CBD liquids are made from isolate, there is no oil in that isolate. All they do is buy the isolate and mix it up, well the wholesaler does, much of it is CO2 extracted. Some of that isolate is made in China.. in a shed maybe, using oil, alcohol, methane, spiders web who knows... I don't touch isolate or vapeshop CBD.

There is indeed so much rubbish and misinformation around about the CBD topic it is indeed very difficult to find the scientific facts, on any forum that's even more unlikely. Ask a chemist with first hand experience, not me, I did 8)

As you can read in my posts in the CBD section ( where this conversation is best undertaken tbh) I use a large UK company that does it's own supercritical CO2 extraction from raw hemp. Then they add a few hemp derived terpenes back in for the so called "entourage effect". I have seen and checked out their lab reports, as everyone should. I have spoken to the owner who, as a chemist, is very knowledgeable.

If I consume something I want to know, as far as possible, what is in it. We grow organic veg, have food animals etc etc.

The EU would reasonably have a very different chain of production and system of controls than the US.

 

[stols001]

That's comparing apples to oranges.

OF COURSE IT IS. I am comparing ONE thing, to ANOTHER.

To compare apples to apples, I would have to compare a TAX to an exact SAME tax.

I'm sorry but I think that saying is totally ridiculous. I am perfectly allowed to compare something to another thing and have them be TWO totally dissimilar things.

I could compare BLACK to WHITE for example, and also point out that the people shrieking "NO TAXATION of ecigs!" are being very BLACK and WHITE about the situation.

I get it. I do. I'm stocked up and I won't be taxed on anything but that is MY choice.

I don't think taxation (apple) is great AS I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID but I still think it is better than a black market for ALMOST everyone, it's just everyone's not use to having sin taxes.

If it come to sin taxes, I don't enjoy them I think they suck I think a lot of things about them.

The worst case solution (which is what I think we are going to get, actually) is shoddy, big tobacco vapes that are closed systems and taxed to the skies.

However, saying "apples to oranges' means NOTHING to me.

If I were to compare apples to oranges, I might point out, fore example it can be a pain in the .... to peel them compared to apples that need no peeling. I would say I love the segment -y juiciness of oranges compared to apples. I might say apples are a pain for ME, as I must cut them, due to my dentures, but some are tart and delicious.

Ooh look a comparison of something... to something else and they are BOTH in the category of FRUITS even.

Jeez. I cannot believe I had to do that.

Every single comparison we make has differences .Even if they were both apples, and like, one might be smaller, or have a brown patch, or they might like, be different varietals.

I was a philosophy major and I got an A plus in my Logic class (we used Spinoza's proof of God and found all the errors. Very much fun, but I run circles around most people when it comes to logic. Please stop. If you'd like to post a comparison of how the black market is better than taxation, do so.

If not, stop it with the DAMN FRUIT.

Ana

 

[DarrenMG]

Personally, if it came down to this FDA deeming regulations thing (oranges), or paying a tax on vaping products and an open market (apples), second choice please. The lesser of two not ideal choices.

 

[Don29palms]

OF COURSE IT IS. I am comparing ONE thing, to ANOTHER.

To compare apples to apples, I would have to compare a TAX to an exact SAME tax.

I'm sorry but I think that saying is totally ridiculous. I am perfectly allowed to compare something to another thing and have them be TWO totally dissimilar things.

I could compare BLACK to WHITE for example, and also point out that the people shrieking "NO TAXATION of ecigs!" are being very BLACK and WHITE about the situation.

I get it. I do. I'm stocked up and I won't be taxed on anything but that is MY choice.

I don't think taxation (apple) is great AS I HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID but I still think it is better than a black market for ALMOST everyone, it's just everyone's not use to having sin taxes.

If it come to sin taxes, I don't enjoy them I think they suck I think a lot of things about them.

The worst case solution (which is what I think we are going to get, actually) is shoddy, big tobacco vapes that are closed systems and taxed to the skies.

However, saying "apples to oranges' means NOTHING to me.

If I were to compare apples to oranges, I might point out, fore example it can be a pain in the .... to peel them compared to apples that need no peeling. I would say I love the segment -y juiciness of oranges compared to apples. I might say apples are a pain for ME, as I must cut them, due to my dentures, but some are tart and delicious.

Ooh look a comparison of something... to something else and they are BOTH in the category of FRUITS even.

Jeez. I cannot believe I had to do that.

Every single comparison we make has differences .Even if they were both apples, and like, one might be smaller, or have a brown patch, or they might like, be different varietals.

I was a philosophy major and I got an A plus in my Logic class (we used Spinoza's proof of God and found all the errors. Very much fun, but I run circles around most people when it comes to logic. Please stop. If you'd like to post a comparison of how the black market is better than taxation, do so.

If not, stop it with the DAMN FRUIT.

Ana

Unfortunately high taxes and bans are what cause and drive a black market. Black markets will always exist. Take for example states with legal drugs. The black markets are still there because it's less expensive when you cut our the middle man. You know that probably better than anyone. Black markets are an unintended consequence of bad policy.

 

[muth]

China son ingenuity ---> Hon Lik - the man who invented the e-cig

Hon may have invented the first commercial ecig (cig 'a' likes) but it was an American who modified a small flashlight into the first mechanical tube mod.

"When was vaping introduced?
The first who came up with the idea of an e-cigarette is Joseph Robinson in 1927. However, it was in 1963 when Herbert Gilbert and his “smokeless non-tobacco cigarette” made vaping popular. The Chinese firm Hon Lik made the first modern e-cig in the mid-2000s.Feb 23, 2017"

Vaping - A Journey Through its History - Vaping Daily

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Hon may have invented the first commercial ecig (cig 'a' likes) but it was an American who modified a small flashlight into the first mechanical tube mod.

"When was vaping introduced?
The first who came up with the idea of an e-cigarette is Joseph Robinson in 1927. However, it was in 1963 when Herbert Gilbert and his “smokeless non-tobacco cigarette” made vaping popular. The Chinese firm Hon Lik made the first modern e-cig in the mid-2000s.Feb 23, 2017"

Vaping - A Journey Through its History - Vaping Daily

No denying a lot of trends and early innovations came out of the US. But the 1927 “Vaporizer” from Joseph Robinson was developed for administrating medicine, not nicotine.

The 1963 invention from Herbert Gilbert also did not involve nicotine, was just flavoured air - the product did receive a patent but was never commercialized.

Hon Lik was a pharmacist and inventor – not a company. Developed in 2001 what could be considered the modern e-cigarette, first entered the Chinese market in 2003(ish) under Golden Dragon Holdings (which later changed to Ruyan, the name behind the original RY4 flavouring). Products entered the European and US markets around 2006(ish) and the rest is history.

 

[muth]

Hon Lik was a pharmacist and inventor – not a company.

Agree, I read that as a possible typo or pure mistake/misunderstanding on Vaping Daily's blog site. But there are some great resources on the subject. Casaa has a good article:

Historical Timeline of Electronic Cigarettes - CASAA

And here's another by blu: (just some interesting facts)

Hon Lik: The Man Who Invented Vaping | blu

 

[CMD-Ky]

...Products entered the European and US markets around 2006(ish) and the rest is history.

And soon, history is all that the "rest" will be. The goal will be achieved and vaping will become virtually non-existent. Those of us who have "prepped" will die off and the governmental cash cow, tobacco, will once more fill the coffers of a rapacious government.
As I think about it, the coffers will not be filled because government has an insatiable need for more and more money. Government can never be big enough nor confiscate enough money.

 

[muth]

And soon, history is all that the "rest" will be. The goal will be achieved and vaping will become virtually non-existent. Those of us who have "prepped" will die off and the governmental cash cow, tobacco, will once more fill the coffers of a rapacious government.
As I think about it, the coffers will not be filled because government has an insatiable need for more and more money. Government can never be big enough nor have enough money.

And America has crystallized this notion by voting in an iconic billionaire as it's president. Then he captivated his audience promising them wealth like a real estate mogul at a seminar.

I don't want to argue politics because I'm not a party die hard but I grew up in NY and we knew Donald Trump like most folks know their neighbors. Now he plans to leave NY because he says no one there treats him nicely. Governor Cuomo said, "Good riddance, you never paid your taxes anyway." Adding, "Good luck, Florida!"

It's an awful thought about the future of vaping but I'm trying to stay hopeful.

 

[CMD-Ky]

And America has crystallized this notion by voting in an iconic billionaire as it's president. Then he captivated his audience promising them wealth like a real estate mogul at a seminar.

I don't want to argue politics because I'm not a party die hard but I grew up in NY and we knew Donald Trump like most folks know their neighbors. Now he plans to leave NY because he says no one there treats him nicely. Governor Cuomo said, "Good riddance, you never paid your taxes anyway." Adding, "Good luck, Florida!"

It's an awful thought about the future of vaping but I'm trying to stay hopeful.

I am not sure where Trump fits into the ravenous insatiable need of government to both grow and tax. I thought that began some time in advance of 2016 but I could be wrong. I suppose that the phenomenon of exponential governmental growth and taxation could be a creature of this new century and this particular president.

 

[Don29palms]

And America has crystallized this notion by voting in an iconic billionaire as it's president. Then he captivated his audience promising them wealth like a real estate mogul at a seminar.

I don't want to argue politics because I'm not a party die hard but I grew up in NY and we knew Donald Trump like most folks know their neighbors. Now he plans to leave NY because he says no one there treats him nicely. Governor Cuomo said, "Good riddance, you never paid your taxes anyway." Adding, "Good luck, Florida!"

It's an awful thought about the future of vaping but I'm trying to stay hopeful.

Reported

 

[stols001]

If cigarettes will remain around, I think vaping will "be." What it will be may be kind of interesting for a while, and while the US market is huge, Britain citizens will be proud vapers, inadvertently passing along its bad habit to the children of Britain and etc. This is how it works.

Eventually (I hope) the USA will give UP. I hope we develop some super crime lord Mafia people who just-- kick the government's .....

It's going to be harder. I was reading about prohibition and it was actually WORKING in the sense that less people were drinking alcohol, but the crime lords were doing so well for themselves, well, the government repealed it, because they were getting SCARED of what might happen.

So, crime it up everyone.

Like I said, for the gun amendment to be fair, we need smart bombs. It's like GUNS SUCK now. They do. They really are not worth much when it comes to "rise up." Etc. BUT, if a criminal vape lord gets their hands on a few smart bombs (which would totally be MY goal along with selling everyone vapes) well they'd' listen THEN.

I'm not good at the actual actions. I mean, probably I would be, but I am great at master planning. LOL. So if there are any crime lords on ECF, well, they are probably "Outside" so someone would need to fetch them?

There is some utterly terrifying and insane dude there who tried to engage me in "dialogue" when I thread I was on went outside. I was like "WHAT ON EARTH" also "LEAVE me alone," and everyone assured me he was way nicer to me than a normal visitor. I could see him and I making a good partnership..... He could provider the daring, and I could provide the PLANNING. LOL. If I can every understand what he is saying, but that's good you don't fold under police questioning..

TO THE GOVENMENT. THIS IS ALL TONGUE IN CHEEK. Well except for the smart bomb thing I really wished I owned one. However I could never use it even on YOU because you usually have innocent people in the building like cleaners and tours or whatever. I am (personally) not a fan of the phrase "unintended casualties." So. You are safe. even if I have a smart bomb. Also, you have investigated me and you know I DON'T have one. My kid had a drone for a while, but it was not armed and he sold it to build a super gaming computer.

Anna

 

[classwife]

Again - PLEASE KEEP THE POLITICS STUFFS OUT OF HERE
We have the Outside Forum for that, please take it there.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forums/outside.49/

 

[muth]

I am not sure where Trump fits into the ravenous insatiable need of government to both grow and tax. I thought that began some time in advance of 2016 but I could be wrong. I suppose that the phenomenon of exponential governmental growth and taxation could be a creature of this new century and this particular president.

No, but he fits the idea of insatiable greed you mention. Btw, he raised taxes in NY. And the fact that he's streamlined our government has nothing to do with saving money for the American people.

 

[muth]

Again - PLEASE KEEP THE POLITICS STUFFS OUT OF HERE
We have the Outside Forum for that, please take it there.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forums/outside.49/

Thanks classy, but I think I'll steer clear. It's hard when all these threads are popping up about state regulations and such which are outside the politics forum. They all involve politics on some level unfortunately.