Got a response from my state rep and it's not good

[bombastinator]

juul is the sacrificial lamb, emplented by the enlightened politicriminals who hold stake in tobacco revenue since ages ago. They use the FDA veil as "for the sheeple". In reality, have you ever heard an elected official ask how you're feeling today? Where taxable revenue is greatest is where the politicians' attentions are.

Lot of different points there. That juul is going to wind up sacrificed is likely. I also think that politicians pay a lot of attention to taxable revenue. The other stuff packed between them has a bunch of very iffy stuff mixed into it though:
Making up new words to input pejoratives, pseudo rhetorical questions that mislead by encouraging only partial thought. I find use of the term “sheeple” to be watchword for falsehood incoming.

It starts reasonable and ends reasonable. The stuff in the middle seems off though. Like a sandwich made of bad meat.

 

[stratus.vaping]

...

Unfortunately, it looks like CBD can't be made into an oil free product....

As has been pointed out, you are digesting mis-information from somewhere and now repeating it 8( CBD is most often these days extracted from hemp by the use of CO2, Carbon Dioxide. In crystalline isolate of say 99% there is no oil or any terpenes and so on. Vapeable CBD commonly is made from this form of CBD, there is no oil in it as has been pointed out and evidenced on here a number of times, search for the info.

The confusion is compounded by numbskull marketeers who continue to use the expression "vape our CBD oil" etc.

 

[fourmedallions]

Seeing that Juul's CEO was toppled by Altria's CEO (Altria held a 35% stake in Juul all along) I foresee Juul eventually smoothing the feathers of this ecig debacle and becoming the number one profit maker in the "tobacco" industry. You have to understand that Big Tobacco was set off it's pins by ecigs and made sure it wasn't going to be left out of the profits. It moved in with it's stake on Juul. With Big T's death grip on our politicians it will eventually turn this whole thing around with them in the driver' seat. That's my farfetched prediction anyway. They did it in 1998 when they had to cough up X amount of millions to numerous states for health damages.
"And the beat goes on"......

I don;t think that's far-fetched at all. That is why I asked the question. I found the response from Juul during the height of the 'outbreak' or whatever you want to call it, really suspect. Sort of, "We'll just sit here and watch this entire industry blow up and when it's all over, we'll pick up the pieces, reclaim our very naughty addicts, and everything will be good again." - for big tobacco.

Who gives a flip about the cost in terms of lost jobs, business closures, people turning to the black market, or all the millions of people who will never even have the chance to make that switch, or make the switch to a substandard product produced by companies who are very well known for concocting poison - and selling it.

 

[bombastinator]

As has been pointed out, you are digesting mis-information from somewhere and now repeating it 8( CBD is most often these days extracted from hemp by the use of CO2, Carbon Dioxide. In crystalline isolate of say 99% there is no oil or any terpenes and so on. Vapeable CBD commonly is made from this form of CBD, there is no oil in it as has been pointed out and evidenced on here a number of times, search for the info.

The confusion is compounded by numbskull marketeers who continue to use the expression "vape our CBD oil" etc.

I was told on another forum that CBD is a terpene just as THC is.

Figuring that out whether that is true has not been easy for me. There are numerous web pages titled things like “the difference between CBD and terpenes” but they don’t seem to actually define a difference, instead talking about the many helpful terpenes in hemp extracts. The wiki for terpene gives examples but does not seem to me specifically define what a terpene is. It does say that terpenoids and terpenes are often called by each other’s names which further confuses things. The CBD wiki also does not seem to say what it is or is not. All I can figure out is that terpenes and terpenoids at least tend to have benzine rings in them, but lots of hydrocarbons do.
IF CBD is a terpene (or terpenoid?) having no terpenes would mean having no CBD.

As for “most commonly” I’m not sure about that. May depend on in what instance. It CAN be done that way. It’s more expensive though.

 

[ppeeble]

Yes. Illness is not caused by cigarettes. Death and disease are not caused by cigarettes. Addiction is not caused by cigarettes.

Fixed the post. Yes there was 1 too many PAID.

That is a lot of statements that appear to contradict common wisdom. I'm not sure if i'm understanding correctly, are you stating that cigarettes do not cause disease and do not contribute to early death ?
My doctor's opinion (based on science) is that my heart disease was directly caused by my inhalation of cigarette smoke. Hence my switch to vaping.
Revenue from cigarette tax should ONLY be used for the treatment of illness related to cigarettes in my opinion. How else can anyone justify the tax in the first place ? Isn't the whole rationale behind cigarette 'sin' tax just that ???

 

[Don29palms]

That is a lot of statements that appear to contradict common wisdom. I'm not sure if i'm understanding correctly, are you stating that cigarettes do not cause disease and do not contribute to early death ?
My doctor's opinion (based on science) is that my heart disease was directly caused by my inhalation of cigarette smoke. Hence my switch to vaping.
Revenue from cigarette tax should ONLY be used for the treatment of illness related to cigarettes in my opinion. How else can anyone justify the tax in the first place ? Isn't the whole rationale behind cigarette 'sin' tax just that ???

So you are the one that caused your heart disease. Why should people have the government pay for their own stupidity?

 

[stols001]

Um.... I am not against taxation of vape products. I know that is an unpopular opinion because one of the nice things is, you save money.

I guess it depends on your perspective. I mean is it a harm reduction product, a recreational product, or a medical product?

Harm reduction products are not inexpensive. I had to run my Buponorphine and monthly doctors visits and whatnot through my health insurance. They were not cheap. If I had "indigent" health insurance, well the government would have been paying for it, period full stop. I am not sure if I would have wished to attend some of those programs but they exist.

So if it's harm reduction and you are poor, I guess you should get your vapes and eliquid through the government, like any other harm reduction item amirite? Only I guarantee your product will not be "good" and figuring out the whole MTL/DL etc would be insane. I don't think that model works. Nor, through one's insurance.

So then we look at medical items. I don't believe I pay a tax on my meds through my health insurance, but I do pay a copay,. It's sort of a tax.

That leaves recreational/sin products, and to imagine they would not be taxed is SUPER IDEALISTIC and I totally agree BUT, like, that hasn't happened since the dawn of time.

Colorado taxes its recreational marijuana but not the medical stuff. That makes TOTAL sense to me.

In any case, had ecigs been taxed from the start I do think it just would have been better in some ways. IDK. Before all this horrendous rhetoric about like, "Ecigs suck."

I 100% agree there should be no "medical cost" as there isn't much of one and I don't think hardware should be taxed anywhere NEAR where tobacco should be. Also, eliquid should have a reasonable tax, somewhat equivalent to cigarettes but less.

And yes, the government "allocates" money for healthcare for smoking, as well they SHOULD (I personally feel.) I mean, God knows where that money GOES really it's the government but it is a fact that the majority of tobacco related illnesses are acquired later in life when many folks are on Medicare. Not all, but some.

I personally feel there should be separate slush fund where all tobacco related illnesses sufferers can get treatment but that is never going to happen.

Taxation is a reality in our society and we ALL fight it, there are ways around it but I think a tax is SO MUCH better than what is happening now.

Oy.

Anna

 

[ScottP]

That is a lot of statements that appear to contradict common wisdom. I'm not sure if i'm understanding correctly, are you stating that cigarettes do not cause disease and do not contribute to early death ?
My doctor's opinion (based on science) is that my heart disease was directly caused by my inhalation of cigarette smoke. Hence my switch to vaping.
Revenue from cigarette tax should ONLY be used for the treatment of illness related to cigarettes in my opinion. How else can anyone justify the tax in the first place ? Isn't the whole rationale behind cigarette 'sin' tax just that ???

I >THINK< what he is saying is that, if you choose to stick a screwdriver in your eye that it is not the fault of the screwdriver. Hence cigarettes didn't cause the disease and death, the user did. I sort of see the logic there but it isn't quite the same. Sticking a screwdriver in your eye is an INCORRECT use of the product while smoking is a correct use of the product. Also no one gets addicted to sticking a screwdriver in their eye.

 

[BROKEN1981]

That is insane. By the way it was a rhetorical question obviously.

It's not insane.
what's insane is people who think it should not be taxed and then wonder why the states want to ban e-cigarettes.
Mayor de Blasio, told police that's the main priority is to arrest people selling illegal cigarettes. skip the people that are out in the open using marijuana.
And look what happened to Eric Gardner. So obviously MONEY is the issue here.

Edit, no it wasn't obviously a rhetorical question because if it was you did not do it correctly.

 

[Don29palms]

It's not insane.
what's insane is people who think it should not be taxed and then wonder why the states want to ban e-cigarettes.
Mayor de Blasio, told police that's the main priority is to arrest people selling illegal cigarettes. skip the people that are out in the open using marijuana.
And look what happened to Eric Gardner. So obviously MONEY is the issue here.

Edit, no it wasn't obviously a rhetorical question because if it was you did not do it correctly.

It's insane to want more taxes. It's insane that the government keeps sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. It's insane that people are okay with it and encourage it. Gardner's got what he deserved. What happened to him was his own fault. He was a criminal that resisted arrest when he was caught breaking the law.

 

[muth]

Some MA numbers came in. At the NH borders (where every MA resident flocks to buy cheap cigs and other non-state taxed items), vape sales have quadrupled and cigarette sales in MA have risen for the first time in a long time.

The judge shortened the ban from 4 months to 3. Still, it's a mess.

In 1998 when states received their money from Big T (TMS -Tobacco Master Settlement) for the purpose of funding health damages and smoking cessation, MA received X amount and spent a tiny fraction of it. Sorry, I'll get the exact numbers later. There's plenty on this from various sources....

15 Years Later, Where Did All The Cigarette Money Go?

Whether our government gets money from a settlement or from us paying taxes I have no confidence at all in how they finally spend it. So what did MA do with the rest of it I'd like to know. Governor Baker gets kudos for supporting the opioid crisis by funding detox but it was a doctor friend of mine who told me the real skinny. He refuses to pay for the real costs of recovering from addiction, amputations from multiple injections, mental health support, etc. Sure, people bring this on themselves but what gets me is that one politician is claiming to be a good guy savior and it's just a "photo op" in many ways.

 

[stols001]

It is not insane to look at taxation COMPARED to the black market, and to choose taxation. That is a comparative assessment, by me, regarding my knowledge of black markets and what they are like. It would not be so bad at the start until the government figured it out, but it would begin to be very dangerous.

I don't WANT more taxes. I don't WANT a black market..

It is not insane to make a comparative assessment and consider taxation as the lesser of the two evils.

By the way I do think too many things are taxed and NO ONE wants more taxes. That is so obvious a fact it does not need to be state.

However, it is reasonable to make a comparative assessment and desire a REASONABLE tax.

I think neither will happen but I am not insane (or stupid) to want what I want.

Anan

 

[Don29palms]

It is not insane to look at taxation COMPARED to the black market, and to choose taxation. That is a comparative assessment, by me, regarding my knowledge of black markets and what they are like. It would not be so bad at the start until the government figured it out, but it would begin to be very dangerous.

I don't WANT more taxes. I don't WANT a black market..

It is not insane to make a comparative assessment and consider taxation as the lesser of the two evils.

By the way I do think too many things are taxed and NO ONE wants more taxes. That is so obvious a fact it does not need to be state.

However, it is reasonable to make a comparative assessment and desire a REASONABLE tax.

I think neither will happen but I am not insane (or stupid) to want what I want.

Anan

That's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Electrodave]

CBD and terpenes are different things. There are a number of different alkaloids in cannabis. They are called cannabinoids, and CBD is one of them. I don't know how you separate CBD from the other cannabinoids. There is a company here in Denver that makes a product called "The Pure", which is a CO2 distillate. It ranges from 92%-96% THC. The rest is other cannabinoids, including CBD.

Terpenes are impurities that are removed from the plant resin in this process. CBD or THC "oil" is actually a plant resin, similar to say, the tar in tobacco. Terpenes are chemicals that, among other things, give plant resins their colors, flavors, and scents. The makers of The Pure add a small amount of terpenes back into their finished product so it tastes a bit more like hemp.

 

[bombastinator]

It's insane to want more taxes. It's insane that the government keeps sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. It's insane that people are okay with it and encourage it. Gardner's got what he deserved. What happened to him was his own fault. He was a criminal that resisted arrest when he was caught breaking the law.

The above is an “outside” statement. wrote a couple paragraphs explaining why I thought this political screed was wrongheaded, but I erased it. It was just as political and non topical as the post I was replying to. Neither Your opinion on the sanity of the concept of taxes in general nor my opinion of the sanity exhibited by the statement are Germaine to vaping.

 

[BROKEN1981]

It's insane to want more taxes. It's insane that the government keeps sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. It's insane that people are okay with it and encourage it. Gardner's got what he deserved. What happened to him was his own fault. He was a criminal that resisted arrest when he was caught breaking the law.

You don't like taxes, you don't want gov involved...yet I'm more then sure you like driving on nice roads with no potholes.
FYI, no one deserves to die over cigs. Also ironically, taxes is what funds the police department. Your thought process needs a little bit of a tune-up.

 

[DaveP]

I have seen a CBD display in my Kroger by the pharmacy as well, but there were no vape or inhalation products at all. It was all soap, lotion, cream and other topical products that I saw.



That is completely untrue. You can get CBD is a pure powder or crystalline form which could then be dissolved into PG or VG or combination of both for a 100% oil free product. Unfortunately I have seen even PG/VG based nic products referred to as "oil" even when it isn't. So it does become a bit problematic trying to determine if there is any actual "oil" in a product or not.

That's good to know.

 

[jamie]

What breaks my heart about all this is that ecigs were born out of good ole American ingenuity. How sad this all is.

China son ingenuity ---> Hon Lik - the man who invented the e-cig

 

[Don29palms]

You don't like taxes, you don't want gov involved...yet I'm more then sure you like driving on nice roads with no potholes.
FYI, no one deserves to die over cigs. Also ironically, taxes is what funds the police department. Your thought process needs a little bit of a tuneup.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Fixing infrastructure is the government's job and yes that's where taxes are supposed to be spent. Gardener didn't die over cigarettes. He died because he was a criminal breaking the law and the resisted arrest. It was Gardner's own fault he died. If he wouldn't have been breaking the law, and it wasn't the first time, and if he wouldn't have resisted arrest he might still be alive today. You're the one that needs to check yourself and maybe have someone explain the facts to you.

 

[ppeeble]

What an extraordinary concept you have towards cigarette taxes. The tax is levied because the product causes harm. That tax is (supposedly) a way for the government to pay for the harm caused by the state sanctioned product. If the money is not spent on the consequences of smoking then there is no justification for the tax......
Got to go now, it's time for my evening eye poking session (now where did i put my screwdriver).