Good Morning Army. Mamaw is back to her old self, and tomorrow I am back to work !
Have a Safe and Blessed Sunday
Have a Safe and Blessed Sunday
WARNING: shop talk so if this bores you then don't waste your time reading it.
Hey BK, have you ever dealt with either a camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor? I think one or both of these are going on my 5.2L Mopar. Last night I'm driving along 50 mph and the engine suddenly cut out. No warnings, no alerts, nothing. Coasted it off to the side of the road. After two attempts to restart it, it fired up. A similar thing happened about a year ago. I was approaching a stop light and before I got to it the engine ran super rough. Barely stayed running for about 30 seconds before it just finally died. Tried restarting. It cranked but wouldn't fire up. After a couple minutes it fired up and ran no problems. Then a few months ago, I went to the store. Came back out 15 minutes later and the dang thing wouldn't start. Cranked n cranked but no start. Let it sit 15 minutes and tried again and it fired right up as if nothing was wrong.
I'm thinking this is either a camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor. I know the crankshaft sensor is a royal pain in the behind to get to. Need a special tool or two just to reach it after digging half the crap out of the engine compartment. Not sure but the camshaft sensor might be easier. It's located on the distributor which is easy enough but I haven't looked to see where the other end plugs into yet. Probably buried beyond belief with my luck.
Anyhow, my concern is this: I don't think either of these problems can be positively diagnosed because this is an intermittent problem. Happens a couple times a year (and will probably only get worse). So I take it in to be diagnosed and their scanner (or whatever they use to diagnose it with) shows everything is fine and I just wasted my time and $$ to find out nothing. It's almost as if I have to wait to break down in the middle of nowhere before I know what the problem is. Another option is to just replace both of these. Neither repair is especially easy or cheap and I probably can't (or perhaps don't want to) do the crankshaft sensor anyway. The last option is to simply wait for the thing to blow up somewhere and call triple A to haul it to the shop.
Don't like any of these options. I guess the best thing I could ask for is to have someone positively diagnose the problem now. But as I say, this is an intermittent problem. Do you think it would still show up on a diagnostic even though this is intermittent? Is there any test that would show either of these sensors are going bad or do those tests just diagnose whether it is working or not working?
Hey BK, have you ever dealt with either a camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor? I think one or both of these are going on my 5.2L Mopar. Last night I'm driving along 50 mph and the engine suddenly cut out. No warnings, no alerts, nothing. Coasted it off to the side of the road. After two attempts to restart it, it fired up. A similar thing happened about a year ago. I was approaching a stop light and before I got to it the engine ran super rough. Barely stayed running for about 30 seconds before it just finally died. Tried restarting. It cranked but wouldn't fire up. After a couple minutes it fired up and ran no problems. Then a few months ago, I went to the store. Came back out 15 minutes later and the dang thing wouldn't start. Cranked n cranked but no start. Let it sit 15 minutes and tried again and it fired right up as if nothing was wrong.
I'm thinking this is either a camshaft position sensor or crankshaft position sensor. I know the crankshaft sensor is a royal pain in the behind to get to. Need a special tool or two just to reach it after digging half the crap out of the engine compartment. Not sure but the camshaft sensor might be easier. It's located on the distributor which is easy enough but I haven't looked to see where the other end plugs into yet. Probably buried beyond belief with my luck.
Anyhow, my concern is this: I don't think either of these problems can be positively diagnosed because this is an intermittent problem. Happens a couple times a year (and will probably only get worse). So I take it in to be diagnosed and their scanner (or whatever they use to diagnose it with) shows everything is fine and I just wasted my time and $$ to find out nothing. It's almost as if I have to wait to break down in the middle of nowhere before I know what the problem is. Another option is to just replace both of these. Neither repair is especially easy or cheap and I probably can't (or perhaps don't want to) do the crankshaft sensor anyway. The last option is to simply wait for the thing to blow up somewhere and call triple A to haul it to the shop.
Don't like any of these options. I guess the best thing I could ask for is to have someone positively diagnose the problem now. But as I say, this is an intermittent problem. Do you think it would still show up on a diagnostic even though this is intermittent? Is there any test that would show either of these sensors are going bad or do those tests just diagnose whether it is working or not working?
@Bronze I have an 89 Dodge Daytona with the 2.5L engine (OBD1) and had similar issues with the mysterious sudden death issues. I replaced most of the electric sensors, fuel pump, and all of the other stuff a normal repair shop would shotgun replace at dealer prices. I figured it was easier for me to DIY the parts for less than an hour of dealer shop time. I was getting codes, but as you know, codes are not answers.
I finally broke down and called the local Dodge dealer and asked if they had the original MOPAR 2000 diagnostics computer and someone old enough to have used it when my car was new. I got lucky and booked an appointment with that shop and that guy. He finally found a bad wire in the system and spliced in a good wire to solve the problem. From what I had learned in my research, the dealer's special computer can do more analytics than even the good ones the other shops have. It might be worth checking with a dealership if you are still running into problems, assuming you can find a mechanic that knows his stuff.
I finally broke down and called the local Dodge dealer and asked if they had the original MOPAR 2000 diagnostics computer and someone old enough to have used it when my car was new. I got lucky and booked an appointment with that shop and that guy. He finally found a bad wire in the system and spliced in a good wire to solve the problem. From what I had learned in my research, the dealer's special computer can do more analytics than even the good ones the other shops have. It might be worth checking with a dealership if you are still running into problems, assuming you can find a mechanic that knows his stuff.
1) Bronze would rather suffer through than ask for help.
2) He is also too cheap to spend money like that.
2) He is also too cheap to spend money like that.
hmmmm... sudden death syndrome could be several things.. ( playfully called the Jesus syndrome... it dies and comes back to life)
ignition modules, timing sensors, fuel pump, ( if its got a distributor) hall sensor in the rotor area, and as Cat mentioned... loose or corroded connection
being that it restarts after so many minutes, it could be a heat issue in a sensor or puter... the bad connection normally is found with a diagnostic when it is misbehaving, other than that, it will show no issues since "it is working ( connection is good)"
what I find odd is the length of time between mishaps... several months between each break down. My only thought on this would be to purchase a module ( diagnostic) and keep it in the vehicle and use it when it does go wacko and see if a code pops up... who knows, it may be several more months before it does it again.
intermittent problems are the hardest to solve sometimes...
ignition modules, timing sensors, fuel pump, ( if its got a distributor) hall sensor in the rotor area, and as Cat mentioned... loose or corroded connection
being that it restarts after so many minutes, it could be a heat issue in a sensor or puter... the bad connection normally is found with a diagnostic when it is misbehaving, other than that, it will show no issues since "it is working ( connection is good)"
what I find odd is the length of time between mishaps... several months between each break down. My only thought on this would be to purchase a module ( diagnostic) and keep it in the vehicle and use it when it does go wacko and see if a code pops up... who knows, it may be several more months before it does it again.
intermittent problems are the hardest to solve sometimes...
Well that's what I get for not checking the weather. Look outside and everything is white. Calling for up to 3 inches of snow.. Sucks!!
Those diagnostic gizmos are pretty remarkable. I just wonder how they are at detecting something that is bad that is working. If you know what I mean.
Wrong on point 1). Correct on point 2)
Yes, it could be any number of sensors. I just happen to know that the camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor are fairly common problems on the Mopar V8s.
I tend to agree with Cats. The dealers are the best at electronic diagnostics. Not that they can always do it, but they are better than Stosh & Stosh Shadetree Auto Repair, Inc.. They have the equipment and the history of their products. I know the dealer I go to on rare occasion has a mechanic who owns the same year and model as my truck. He has been able to diagnose stuff just from my descriptions. Maybe he still works there. I'll call him tomorrow. I just see no reason to get something diagnosed if it can't be diagnosed. Dang thing might have to leave me stranded somewhere with smoke and springs flying all over the place to figure out what is bad. Gotta make sure I renew my AAA policy by the end of the month when it expires.
Say BK, is it possible for a relay to be intermittent? Like a fuel pump relay? Or do relays either work or not work. Do they ever funk out and work 99.9% of the time and then weird out once in a great while?
Those diagnostic gizmos are pretty remarkable. I just wonder how they are at detecting something that is bad that is working. If you know what I mean.
Wrong on point 1). Correct on point 2)
Yes, it could be any number of sensors. I just happen to know that the camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor are fairly common problems on the Mopar V8s.
I tend to agree with Cats. The dealers are the best at electronic diagnostics. Not that they can always do it, but they are better than Stosh & Stosh Shadetree Auto Repair, Inc.. They have the equipment and the history of their products. I know the dealer I go to on rare occasion has a mechanic who owns the same year and model as my truck. He has been able to diagnose stuff just from my descriptions. Maybe he still works there. I'll call him tomorrow. I just see no reason to get something diagnosed if it can't be diagnosed. Dang thing might have to leave me stranded somewhere with smoke and springs flying all over the place to figure out what is bad. Gotta make sure I renew my AAA policy by the end of the month when it expires.
I bought an Innova scan tool on Amazon because most of the young mechanics didn't have a tool that could read OBD1 cars. It would give me codes after I had a stall/failure, but even though I made the suggested repairs, I still had the intermittent problems. If you have an old truck that is OBD1, you might want to invest in a tool. If your truck uses OBD2, it wouldn't be as necessary since the mechanics are likely to have their own scanners.
The Dodge dealer equipment was supposed to have the ability to check the wires, switches, etc. on the car to look for faults. I don't know exactly how it worked, but I was willing to gamble a few hours of shop time at the dealer before I had to decide if I needed to take it to an auto electric place for them to check all of the little wires and bits at hourly rates. If you know a guy, I would try to call him and see what he thinks.
This website was very helpful for me: Stalling repair tips for all cars, especially Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth but in the end it didn't solve my problem. If you have an Advance Auto Parts nearby, they have an offer for a decent discount if you order on-line and pick up in the store. I replaced a lot of parts during my most excellent adventure, but still paid less by the time I was done than had I gone to the local dealer at the time who was just doing the same thing at dealer prices. Some of the parts were probably needed since they were elderly, original parts, so it wasn't a total waste of time, and I did rule out the easy stuff over time. Renew that AAA membership for sure, I had a few tow rides and jump starts before I was done.
I have an on-board OBD1 scanner on my truck. If my Check Engine light comes on I can run a diagnostic to get the code (tap the ignition three times and get a series of flashes and pauses to read). I only had this happen once when my alternator petered out. My Check Engine light has never come on except that one time. Just for grins I went out and ran the diagnostic again. Came up empty (no problems diagnosed). Didn't think it would because that Check Engine light never came on. I'm not sure what else the dealer has in the way of diagnostic equipment. Don't know if they have anything better than this on-board OBD1 or not. I'm guessing no, but it's a guess. These dealers tend to surprise me lots of times with their fancy gear knowledge.I bought an Innova scan tool on Amazon because most of the young mechanics didn't have a tool that could read OBD1 cars. It would give me codes after I had a stall/failure, but even though I made the suggested repairs, I still had the intermittent problems. If you have an old truck that is OBD1, you might want to invest in a tool. If your truck uses OBD2, it wouldn't be as necessary since the mechanics are likely to have their own scanners.
The Dodge dealer equipment was supposed to have the ability to check the wires, switches, etc. on the car to look for faults. I don't know exactly how it worked, but I was willing to gamble a few hours of shop time at the dealer before I had to decide if I needed to take it to an auto electric place for them to check all of the little wires and bits at hourly rates. If you know a guy, I would try to call him and see what he thinks.
This website was very helpful for me: Stalling repair tips for all cars, especially Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth but in the end it didn't solve my problem. If you have an Advance Auto Parts nearby, they have an offer for a decent discount if you order on-line and pick up in the store. I replaced a lot of parts during my most excellent adventure, but still paid less by the time I was done than had I gone to the local dealer at the time who was just doing the same thing at dealer prices. Some of the parts were probably needed since they were elderly, original parts, so it wasn't a total waste of time, and I did rule out the easy stuff over time. Renew that AAA membership for sure, I had a few tow rides and jump starts before I was done.
I got an annual AAA policy for the first time in late 2017. They gave me a couple free months to join and a "Gotta Do-It" price of $19.99. It runs out on Feb. 28. Renewal for both drivers is $79. I was thinking of letting it expire because I know they'll come back in a few weeks with a cheaper offer to re-sign. But with my luck, that's when my truck will crap out and need a tow. I got two tows this past period. One to tow me to a shop and another to tow me home (ended up doing the repair myself). Saved a ton of dough on tow charges...that's for sure. I recommend AAA especially for the ladies for safety purposes alone. You bust down and you get someone to show up fairly quick before some wacknut gets any ideas. Also for anyone who has older vehicles where breakdown odds are higher. I'd say a 25 year old truck has higher odds.
UPDATE: I'm laughing. I decided to look up the codes. The very first one is Code 11: "Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor." So if I had an intermittent problem with these sensors you'd think the Check Engine light would have gone on.
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I never got a check engine light. I think the car figured I would check it out when it wouldn't turn over.I have an on-board OBD1 scanner on my truck. If my Check Engine light comes on I can run a diagnostic to get the code (tap the ignition three times and get a series of flashes and pauses to read). I only had this happen once when my alternator petered out. My Check Engine light has never come on except that one time. Just for grins I went out and ran the diagnostic again. Came up empty (no problems diagnosed). Didn't think it would because that Check Engine light never came on. I'm not sure what else the dealer has in the way of diagnostic equipment. Don't know if they have anything better than this on-board OBD1 or not. I'm guessing no, but it's a guess. These dealers tend to surprise me lots of times with their fancy gear knowledge.
I got an annual AAA policy for the first time in late 2017. They gave me a couple free months to join and a "Gotta Do-It" price of $19.99. It runs out on Feb. 28. Renewal for both drivers is $79. I was thinking of letting it expire because I know they'll come back in a few weeks with a cheaper offer to re-sign. But with my luck, that's when my truck will crap out and need a tow. I got two tows this past period. One to tow me to a shop and another to tow me home (ended up doing the repair myself). Saved a ton of dough on tow charges...that's for sure. I recommend AAA especially for the ladies for safety purposes alone. You bust down and you get someone to show up fairly quick before some wacknut gets any ideas. Also for anyone who has older vehicles where breakdown odds are higher. I'd say a 25 year old truck has higher odds.
UPDATE: I'm laughing. I decided to look up the codes. The very first one is Code 11: "Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor." So if I had an intermittent problem with these sensors you'd think the Check Engine light would have gone on.
There is a footnote on my code list. One * says the Check Engine light will not illuminate when the code is stored. Two ** means the Check Engine light will illuminate when the code is stored. My code 11 is one that will illuminate the light. Maybe you had a similar footnote and your error would not illuminate. But then what is the purpose of it then?I never got a check engine light. I think the car figured I would check it out when it wouldn't turn over.
Amen on AAA, General. IMO, the whole value is in just having someone to call to say "Come get me." And that's especially true if it's my wife or son who is stranded.
General, I don't know about car engines, but on a small engine like a zero turn mower, a bad ignition coil can cause a mower to stall but then re-start after it cools down.
Relays are usually either good or bad, not bad intermittently. I did, however, have one in the ignition circuit of a motorcycle that was intermittently bad for a while before it totally puked. Sometimes, I would turn the ignition key and just hear a click. Other times, it would start fine. Finally, it crapped out completely. Expected a hefty repair bill, but wound up diagnosing it myself. One $7 relay later, it was starting and running fine.
Relays are usually either good or bad, not bad intermittently. I did, however, have one in the ignition circuit of a motorcycle that was intermittently bad for a while before it totally puked. Sometimes, I would turn the ignition key and just hear a click. Other times, it would start fine. Finally, it crapped out completely. Expected a hefty repair bill, but wound up diagnosing it myself. One $7 relay later, it was starting and running fine.
Not sure about car vs mowers. I was going to replace my plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and coil today but got lazy and didn’t do it. Thought I’d research the sensor angle first. But yes, a new coil is on my list. At 25 years you replace parts whether they’re working or not cuz if they are working it’s likely not going to be long that they aren’t.
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