Hitting Rock Bottom?

[Jman8]

Have a few points I want to cover in this post, that is up for discussion, but the really short version of what I'm looking to say is:

As addicting as vaping nicotine may be, it is one that is very challenging to know when an addict may have hit rock bottom. If you feel this is not true, then please discuss in this thread.

The longer version starts with me wanting to address points in the threads that bring up "nicotine is highly addictive" and/or looks to take plausible addiction that many of us here share and present it as a significant problem.

There's no other addiction, that I know of, to compare to nicotine addiction. Sugar comes the closest, but I think falls just short. IMO, the closes activity would be breathing, but this of course is assuming the nicotine user is inhaling the substance. The amount of times that a user is likely to imbibe throughout the day I think is unmatched in all other substances I'm familiar with. Then, couple that with the lack of effect once used (from say each puff) and it is literally in a category by itself. With sugar, you get your fix and know when you've had enough, which may carry you over for days or for sure hours.

With some other addictions, alcoholism being primary example, the user may make a monumental change after they hit rock bottom. This entails the user having some physical/emotion experience where they feel they reached a low point from using and they no longer want to use for fear of going back to that low place. Hitting rock bottom is for many people a turning point to where they make significant decision to stop using and end the addiction.

With smoking (nicotine), I think hitting rock bottom is actually very easy. I've known many smokers, myself included, who hit that low point. You get to point where you know you are addicted/very heavy user, and are routinely in situations with non-users that amounts to your craving being put ahead of whatever else is occurring in the situation. But that doesn't make for rock bottom. That's more just a sign of dependence. The addiction/rock bottom part comes when despite the acute realization that you area heavy user who constantly craves, you will continue using regardless of visual detrimental health conditions. And thing with 'rock bottom' is that it is all subjective. For some, it could be as simple as starting each day wheezing and coughing, and that's rock bottom (time to change things for good). For others it may be news from doctor that you have lung cancer. And yet, for some, neither of those two mean it has gotten to point where the user for sure needs to stop or reconsider their condition.

With vaping (nicotine), I think hitting rock bottom is between impossible to know and very challenging. Other than news from a doctor that the doctor attributes solely to vaping (which I haven't heard of yet), I can't think of what that condition would be. Obviously, as 'rock bottom' is subjective, then it could be anything that most vapers I know wouldn't even consider thinking twice about, i.e. vaper's tongue.

Then there's the "if you can't wait the 15 minutes you are in a grocery store without taking a puff, you probably have a problem." I'm thinking with some vapers, that would be a sign of 'hitting rock bottom.' Which is one of those key points I wanted to address in this rant of a post. I find the "if you can't wait" position to be lacking in compassion and understanding. As one who's gone cold turkey, it's tempting to respond with, "if you can't wait 2 years between puffs, then perhaps you have a problem" as that makes about as much sense to me. Fact is, one could wait 15 minutes or two years, if one really really wanted to (or had to). But as long as one is user of nicotine, and nicotine has any aspect of 'dependance' then chances are good the user is very used to puffing every 30 seconds to no more than 10 minutes. Those vapers or nic users who may have one session a day are great and all, but are in my estimation extremely rare. Plus the reality of no perceived harm to bystanders unless they are allergic and happen to be less than 3 feet from you makes for reasons why vaping everywhere, with respect, regardless of time between puffs is the sensible position. Yet, I'm still thinking that for some vapers, hitting rock bottom would be as simple as *I* caught myself having a craving when I was out in public and I ended up taking a puff.

The other version of rock bottom that comes to mind would be going through one's budget and having no money left to spend on other things in life. Yet, I don't see that as a result of nicotine use. There's a correlation for sure, but not a causation. One could vape zero-nic and still over spend.

So, as I've dispelled the two items that come to my mind, I am curious what other vapers see as plausibly hitting rock bottom? I feel with other substances that I'm familiar with, that is known among its users. For alcoholics, it is known even while it is subjective. Laying passed out in public would be one of those known situations for alcohol. For sugar, it could be when teeth are rotted and/or come from significant weight gain. But with vaping, it is hard to pin point what rock bottom would even look like. I think it would have to be something from a doctor and have to be so sound medically that 2nd, third and fourth opinions would all concur that this can only be due to excessive vaping of nicotine.

 

[supertrunker]

I have not seen any sound medical advice or evidence that suggests vaping is anything other than at least 100 times safer than smoking cigarettes. There may not be a rock-bottom; in fact a lot of vapers go on to gradually reduce the amount of nicotine they use as they use better equipment.

Since nicotine is quite often in these forums equated with caffeine, it's fair to ask what rock-bottom is for a caffeine addict and there just isn't the evidence that it destroys lives in the same way as other addictions can.

T

 

[alisa1970]

I agree w/Supertrunker. I don't think there really could be a "rock bottom" moment for a vaper, since there is no real damage that can affect your life. Maybe more like someone who chooses to or has to give up coffee due to the stimulant effect. But even then, one could vape 0 nic and avoid all that.

 

[HecticEnergy]

I agree with the caffeine parallel. Nicotine is a stimulant similar to caffeine. Nicotine gets associated to cancer because the primary delivery system for nicotine is inhaling burnt mater from a cigarette, and all smoke has carcinogenic properties as I understand it.
When we look at those dependent on caffeine we look at them differently... Granted with caffeine withdrawal symptoms usually take 24 hours or so to present themselves, where nicotine withdrawal can start in as little as a few hours.
I've become addicticted to alcohol before I think, when partying to hard and to regularly in my early 20s... It was like a week long hangover and I vowed to never do that again. I guess that was my rock bottom with that.

IMO every one is addicted to something, but some things are healthier than others... My wife is addicted to working out, it's not all consuming like some addictions, but her behavior and mood turns for the worse when she doesn't get her daily workout in. This addiction doesn't have bad connotation, but I still view it as an addiction none the less.

As far as rock bottom with vaping.... I think your assertion that it would take news from a doctor is correct.
I chain vape all day... 3 mg on a mech with a dripper built at around .7 ohms. I taper back when going on vacation, bump up to 6mg on a kayfun built around 1.4 at breakfast lunch and dinner... Am I addicted? I think so, but mostly to the hand to mouth, I snack more when I taper back the vaping... Candy, sunflower seeds, and mints...

 

[Jman8]

So far, we're all in agreement.

Again, my point being that vaping nicotine doesn't have a readily identifiable low point that equates to hitting rock bottom.

 

[keepsmiling]

When you spend WAY TOO MUCH MONEY..like I have..{yelling at myself}

 

[HecticEnergy]

When you spend WAY TOO MUCH MONEY..like I have..{yelling at myself}

Lol, I spent 300 on vaping so far this month.... I binge spend.... Most of that was buying juice... It's called budgeting, everyone should do it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[realsis]

That's a very interesting post.because I'm certain I've hit rock bottom in my cigarette smoking I actually feel like vaping is climbing out of that rock bottom place. If you don't know what a cigarette smoking rock bottom looks like, let me explain, .....spending 12 dollars a day on cigarettes and digging for change because you can't really afford it, or... looking on the ground or in the ashtray for a .... to smoke when you have ran out. Picking the best used crushed dirty but you can find until you can get to the store. Falling asleep with a cigarette , or burning holes in your clothing, car, or jacket..that's not a pretty site but that's the harsh reality of a smokers rock bottom. Perhaps you should have asked that question. Because for many of us now., we are climbing up from that rock bottom with vaping.. so no I don't see vaping as any rock bottom, but as a way to climb out of the smokers rock bottom... yes nicotine is a stimulant, but so is caffine. And vaping is a way to crawl up and out of that rock bottom of smoking!!

 

[crxess]

I Have come to a conclusion that an ADDICTION is more than the Element one is Addicted to.
i.e.:
Sugar has no addictive bond for some people. In fact many people hate sweets.
Caffeine - Same. Some just have to have our sodas and/or COFFEE. I drink 10+ cups a day(loaded with sugar)

Nicotine - Same. Some people are and have for years been Casual smokers - like having an occasional Beer. While others have reached a chain smoking stage and burn through 2-3 packs a day.

Having been a Smoker from age 12 until almost 59, and failing miserably to stop many times, I truly believe Cigarettes(not Nicotine) are an engineered Advanced ADDICTIVE Product.

Nicotine & Vaping - Immediately we have cut out all the Control substances that Enhance Nicotine's effect on the Brain/body.(Yes people forget the physical effects) There is still the MENTAL Crutch that one has come to lean heavily upon, the Physical changes the Body must endure during the chemical purge and the overwhelming desire to Feel Good rather than be uncomfortable even for a short while.

Anyway, not to get preachy and end this response quick.
I was a Long Term heavy Smoker
I was a Total Quit Smoking Failure
I finally found out about Vaping to substitute/ease into a Healthier life.
I Instantly Stopped Smoking
I found I enjoy Vaping and can easily go many hours without even thinking about it.(while busy)
I have dropped to 3mg at my pace on a non-stressful schedule.

I have learned we all have our own demons we must battle in our own way.

Good luck Battling yours!

 

[Rat2chat2]

For me, the two addictions are different. With smoking I physically needed the nicotine. A good example is when I smoked, the first thing I did when I awakened was light up because my body needed it and anyone who got in the way of that need was going to get hurt. With vaping, I can do without if I have to and it doesn't bother me at all. I vape because I enjoy the taste and derive pleasure from blowing vapor. Yes I am sure I am addicted to nicotine. I don't know what would happen if I tried 0 nic. That's right up there with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. One of those things I will never know. Either way you look at it...........vaping is a safer and healthier alternative and I am thankful for what vaping has done for me and so many others.

 

[ismokeinbinary]

I was a two pack a day smoker and I didn't have any trouble starting at 18mg and immediately decreasing to 12mg after my first 8ml bottle of fluid. I'm now at 6mg, which I'd like to drop to 3mg when I finally run out of all this 6mg juice I've accumulated. Anyways, I don't think nicotine "addiction" is really very serious, like people have said it's similar to caffeine, you really really want it but you don't NEED it, i.e. I've been broke before, ran out of analogs and I would want one very much so, and I would try to bum, but there were days I went from two packs a day to zero for a few days, no 'withdrawals' or anything. But I do recall a 'withdrawal' from "the other plant" when I had to quit one time, but that's another story. Lol
But rock bottom? Uhh, I guess "rock bottom" in the vaping world would be, maybe, forgetting your vape or breaking it and taking spoon hits kuz you can't wait for a day or two to go get another vape, but others might not see it the same, I'm just thinking from another person's pov. Really good question because I can't really define the vaping rock-bottom, if there is one..

 

[ElectriSean]

I think rock bottom for me in terms of vaping, would be if I was unable to vape for a long period of time, and was forced to smoke a cigarette. Many addicts don't get to rock bottom unless they are forced by some means to go without their fix. Hard drug addicts are generally pretty happy when they're high, it's when they are out of stock, broke and desperate that rock bottom is found.

 

[AzPlumber]

The addiction to cigarettes goes far beyond the nicotine. There are a number of other alkaloids in tobacco smoke that are just as and maybe more addictive than the nicotine. This is why I believe electronic cigarettes are so successful at helping kick the smoking habit and eventually lower their nicotine level.

 

[Underwhelmed]

My rock bottom vaping was July 12th when I found myself a decent distance from home and realizing I hadn't filled the Kayfun before I left and I hadn't brought any juice along either. I was in a panic and contemplated turning around to head for home.

It was at this point that I reminded myself that as a smoker I would routinely work 8-10 hours without a cigarette, so the idea of running out of juice shouldn't be a big deal, especially since I had weaned myself down to 2mg and I had 1/3 of a tank, so I should be fine.

But when I realized I was low on juice and was a good distance from a bottle it cause me a real panic.

I didn't like that feeling, not one bit.

So the next day, July 13th I quit vaping and haven't had a single relapse with either cigarettes or vaping. I had no real negatives, no sleep issues, irritability, etc that I was afraid of and expecting.

I've had some very stressful personal and family issues since then and haven't even thought about having a smoke or a vape.

I do still have equipment and juice as well as DIY supplies should I need them, but honestly don't think I will need them.

As another positive, I unloaded a bunch of vaping stuff on the classifieds here and made around $200 one weekend, which was nice.

 

[eyerhere]

Rock bottom doesnt exist I think the term rock bottom comes from addictions that fup your life. I have a cousin who is so drugged out he has no job no money and has been jailed and institutionalized several times. Still does drugs any chance he gets people who say "they will only do somthing about their problem when they hit rock bottom" have never spent time around or been close to a true drug addict. Rock bottom is a fictional place created by the Dr. Phil Dr.Oz psycobabblers. For somone addicted to somthing there is only the place where they realize what they have lost and have the courage to say enough. And when they do it is said they hit rock bottom. I say nay ther is always a darker worse place up untill death. So haw can nicotine addiction ever have a rock bottom?
Rather than prattle on about thi endlessly I am going to go do somthing consfructive. I am gonna refill my genisis an fog the place!

 

[imsoenthused]

I'm picturing somebody's rock bottom caffeine moment, turning tricks in the bathroom at the local coffee house for just one more cup... Seriously, doesn't it have to be something that can ruin your life or kill you for there to be a "rock bottom"?

 

[Rickajho]

Addicted smoking rock bottom: Ripping someone a new one when you are down to your last cigarette.

Addicted vaping rock bottom: Spending more than two days in a hospital - twice - bringing my gear, and not using it anyway.

Not sure what the point is you are getting at.

 

[2naphish]

i hit rock bottom a year ago as a smoker. 40 years smoking. 20 years ago i had lung surgery for an "abscess" which caused a severe pneumonia that i have since decided had to be cancer. my mother died of lung cancer in 2006 within a week of being diagnosed from pneumonia. my sister died in 2010 from lung cancer within a week of diagnosis from pneumonia. turns out i was the one who got a second chance and still didn't stop smoking. i had to get to the point where i didn't want to go on .i had no hope of my life getting any less painful. now THATS an addiction for you.

some co-workers of mine started vaping and were telling me how much better they felt. i decided i better get busy living or get busy dying cause i couldn't stand it anymore. bought a starter kit, told myself this is going to work and started vaping and learning about it.haven't touched a cig since. that was exactly 1 year ago today. i can't even express how it feels to enjoy life with the hope that tomorrow will be a good day.

a rock bottom in vaping? that's just hard to imagine.

 

[rbrylawski]

I know I hit "rock bottom" ofen when I was still smoking cigarettes. I'd cough up awful stuff in the morning. I'd cough all day, every day. Yet I still smoked and told myself, I'd quit before my 30th birthday. Then my 40th birthday. Then my 50th birthday. Of course I'd try to quit, but never for more than a few days or weeks. With vaping, I'm not sure there is a "rock bottom" scenario that frightens me. So far, no one has been able to prove vaping is harmful to my health. And so far, my health has improved significantly. Two years and a month after my last cigarette, I don't cough up black gunk. I don't cough. I don't get short winded. My blood pressure is normal. My cholesterol has dropped a lot (I'm not sure there's a correlation between smoking and cholesterol or not?). I sleep better. I have more energy. Food tastes great (maybe too great as I have gained a few pounds). But overall, I'm in a so much better place that I'm very happy to vape when I want and not suffer awful life threatening issues.

As to not being able to wait. I was on a two hour flight this week. I had no issue whatsoever not taking a vape. Maybe for me vaping is a mental as well as physical addiction, but it's an addiction I'm quite happy to have because it keeps me away from cigarettes, without any desire for one in the least.

 

[Zealous]

I think the term "rock bottom" is somewhat subjective. My rock bottom is not someone else's & theirs isn't mine.

If/when we start to see the affects of FDA's rulings on vaping we might have more feedback about this. The thing is, when people begin to be faced with choices that confront their morals (ie buying eliquid illegally, etc.) then there might be a "rock bottom" in vaping. As it stands right now we're somewhat in the honeymoon phase of vaping so it's hard to say.

The way Underwelmed described the situation that caused him to quit is how I envision it will be for me if such a time comes. When I get to the point where I'm doing, or considering doing, something I would normally consider unacceptable in order to accommodate vaping that would be a sign to me that I have a problem.