Hitting Rock Bottom?

[freeatlast!]

I don't know if there really is such a thing as "rock bottom" with vaping, but I'd think that spending all your money on vaping to the extent that money for other essentials is gone, and spending so much time on vape-related activities that one is ignoring everything/everyone in one's life to the extent that friends/family leave and one gets in major trouble for neglecting essential aspects in one's life, would be it. Also, if vaping does cause one significant medical problems (now or it's shown in the future that it does) and continuing to vape anyway, would be another.

 

[Jman8]

That's a very interesting post.because I'm certain I've hit rock bottom in my cigarette smoking I actually feel like vaping is climbing out of that rock bottom place. If you don't know what a cigarette smoking rock bottom looks like, let me explain, .....spending 12 dollars a day on cigarettes and digging for change because you can't really afford it, or... looking on the ground or in the ashtray for a .... to smoke when you have ran out. Picking the best used crushed dirty but you can find until you can get to the store. Falling asleep with a cigarette , or burning holes in your clothing, car, or jacket..that's not a pretty site but that's the harsh reality of a smokers rock bottom. Perhaps you should have asked that question. Because for many of us now., we are climbing up from that rock bottom with vaping.. so no I don't see vaping as any rock bottom, but as a way to climb out of the smokers rock bottom... yes nicotine is a stimulant, but so is caffine. And vaping is a way to crawl up and out of that rock bottom of smoking!!

I've read all posts in this thread (thru top of p.3) and using this one for further comments.

I feel realisis captured rock bottom for smoking as well as anyone can. I've experienced some of this and when one of those occurs for a first time it can be a turning point. Or realization that 'now I am a smoking addict.'

Yet, this post also had me realizing that one of the things I was getting at in OP is that for the non-smoking vaper (the one who isn't an ex-smoker), there may not be the low point that is, IMO, common with cigarette smoking addiction. Hence, it might be better to have that type of vaper comment in this thread as the comparison would always be perceived by the ex-smoker as tame (smoking addiction being far worse).

Also wanted to collect some additional ideas for rock bottom for vaping that have come up in this thread:
1. Many have cited the 'spending too much money' idea as hitting rock bottom. I noted this in OP and still feel this isn't result of 'vaping nicotine' as much as it could be representative of 'spending addiction' or 'collecting addiction.' I've had periods in my life where collecting items was integral to who I was and became an addiction. I don't think with vaping (nicotine) there is an inherent desire to spend money, and I am not the type of vaper that has that issue even while I find it plentiful here on ECF.

2. Not having gear or liquid around and resorting back to smoking when one has expressed desire to quit smoking. IMO, this would be a viable rock bottom situation. I think it would be overcome soon (within a day or so) and would be unlikely to happen again, but it screams of the desperation that comes from low points of being a smoking addict.

3. Same as number 2, but minus having the cigarette. I actually had similar thing occur just yesterday as I was out for the day and realized I grabbed the wrong eCig for my outing. So, instead of being satisfied with what I had and going along my merry way, I made it a point to go back home and grab that correct eCig. Thing is, I am a dual user so wasn't really any desperation going on for me, and was more of a preference type of thing. But, if I were 'sworn ex-smoker' type I think I could've shown up a bit more desperate and emotionally bent out of shape for not having the nicotine that I planned on being 'just right for me' for the day.

4 - What life will be like post FDA final rule? This is a wait-and-see proposition, but one that I think could indicate 'rock bottom' for vaping nicotine better than what might be discussed at present. I imagine by time Final Rule comes about that there will be more stigmatizing ingrained in society and perhaps more known 'harms' than what is currently available. All of this I fully expect vapers (like myself) will dispute, but at same time, I think that stigmatizing will be in effect and will weigh on vapers to varying degrees. And as noted on this thread already, it could be as simple as "grandma went to the black market just to get her nic fix. Oh how sad, for her."

 

[Nick N]

1. Agree
2. To me it would depend on how long you had quit.
3. Seems like a mental thing to me, could apply to more than just ecigs.
4. Not familiar with the whole FDA situation, but wouldn't a ban make it worse than cigarettes? There are still patches and gum to fall back on I guess.

I have tried the Wife's nicotine laced gear and have no desire to go back to cigarettes (12 years running) nor do I feel the need or desire to vape nicotine juice.

I will mention that sadly I am the only vaper in the house at the moment. We bought all the gear and the juices (for the both of us) but she still prefers the "real" thing.

 

[AndriaD]

So, as I've dispelled the two items that come to my mind, I am curious what other vapers see as plausibly hitting rock bottom? I feel with other substances that I'm familiar with, that is known among its users. For alcoholics, it is known even while it is subjective. Laying passed out in public would be one of those known situations for alcohol. For sugar, it could be when teeth are rotted and/or come from significant weight gain. But with vaping, it is hard to pin point what rock bottom would even look like. I think it would have to be something from a doctor and have to be so sound medically that 2nd, third and fourth opinions would all concur that this can only be due to excessive vaping of nicotine.

For me it would be the same rock bottom that I hit with alcohol: where ANY use would lead to nausea and/or vomiting. I got to that point with alcohol which told me that my liver was in rough shape, and if I kept subjecting it to that treatment, it would very soon fail completely.

I need pretty little nicotine to feel comfortable; if I got to a point where even 3mg, 2mg, or 1mg nicotine, made me nauseous, I would stop its use immediately, because to me there is NOTHING worse than nausea/vomiting; it IS the "fate worse than death."

Anything short of that, and I would not even consider it a real problem, nevermind "rock bottom."

Andria

 

[bluecat]

Here is what I don't understand.

If nicotine is so addictive, why aren't the shelves always empty of nicotine gum and patches? I have tried them.....many many many many times..

Not enough nicotine in them, maybe? That would go against the point of it being "highly" addictive.

My guess is nicotine isn't addictive as first thought. It is most likely all psychological and the sensation of vapor (smoke) and the hand mouth deal.

Rock Bottom? Never been there. Never plan to be.

 

[bigaug]

Its absolutely more psychological than physical. Physical withdrawal is gone rather quickly when quitting nicotine. People don't relapse due to physical addiction. They relapse in times of stress or loss of inhibitions. If it were simply nicotine addiction, no one would ever smoke another cigarette after vaping or using other nicotine alternatives.

 

[Matilo]

Rock Bottom -

Running out of juice so you buy some chewing tobacco and steep it in olive oil.

Running out of batteries so you wire your mod to your cigarette lighter in your car.

Vaping at work when you know you can get fired. And then you get fired, lose you house, your wife, your car. But you still have your mod.

Ignoring your kids so you can rebuild your atty to get .1 ohm better.

Water proofing your gear so you can vape while snorkeling.

Pouring eliquid in a frying pan to get that ultimate cloud.

Dead battery? Just squirt some juice up your nose.

 

[Jman8]

Water proofing your gear so you can vape while snorkeling.

Hilarious.

Though maybe in the year 2037 it won't be quite as funny.

 

[bigaug]

I was going to say subcutaneous injections if eliquid is probably rock bottom lol

 

[rbrylawski]

Rock Bottom -

Running out of juice so you buy some chewing tobacco and steep it in olive oil.

Running out of batteries so you wire your mod to your cigarette lighter in your car.

Vaping at work when you know you can get fired. And then you get fired, lose you house, your wife, your car. But you still have your mod.

Ignoring your kids so you can rebuild your atty to get .1 ohm better.

Water proofing your gear so you can vape while snorkeling.

Pouring eliquid in a frying pan to get that ultimate cloud.

Dead battery? Just squirt some juice up your nose.

Simply priceless!!


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[vapero]

I think that vaping is a different animal than smoking and other drugs...

yes, we are addicted but for now I don't see any important health risks nor behavioral changes.

you hit rock bottom on cigs once you have your health taken away and you still smoke.
on alcohol it is easier to hit it as the same thing with the health as cigarettes added to the behavioral changes that tend to affect your personal life and the ones close to you.

now vaping I don't see the health issue now.
the behavior stuff you may just come as annoying to the rest of the world but that is about it.

the real rock bottom that I see here is more the type of obsession some get with other hobbies and not drugs. spend too much money, or time and it could begin affecting other sides of your life but just like any hobby that goes out of hand

 

[rondasherrill]

Its absolutely more psychological than physical. Physical withdrawal is gone rather quickly when quitting nicotine. People don't relapse due to physical addiction. They relapse in times of stress or loss of inhibitions. If it were simply nicotine addiction, no one would ever smoke another cigarette after vaping or using other nicotine alternatives.

Agreed. This drives me crazy when people talk about (just) nicotine being so highly addictive. Physical addiction to nicotine outside the context of tobacco products is very nearly a blatant lie, and psychological addiction can literally happen with ANYTHING. It's the way the human brain is wired.

 

[K_Tech]

Until they highlight the story of a vaper on Intervention, I have a hard time using "addiction" when it comes to vaping. It just doesn't sit right with me, and I think it's making light of those that actually struggle with real, life damaging addictions.

Just my uneducated opinion.

 

[acka]

I don't think I can hit 'rock bottom' with vaping. In order to hit rock bottom my life would have to become unmanageable. This is possible with alcohol, other drugs, gambling but it would be very, very hard for vaping to cause this imo. It's still relatively cheap, legal and with seemingly little health consequences. It has however become something I would really like to stop/drastically cut down on and that largely comes from me chain-vaping as much now (or more tbh) as I did when I started at Christmas. That annoys me greatly for some reason.

 

[EastSideLove]

I am inclined to agree with K_Tech. Using the word addiction here doesn't quite fit since the real addiction is nicotine. Vaping is just the delivery method. Just like how you can be an alcoholic without consuming alcohol in beverage form. And crazily enough that does happen

It is important to separate the chemical addiction from the behavioral delivery method even if you can't completely divorce the two. In any situation where the nonnegotiable need for nicotine consumption is the problem, the method of consumption is almost completely irrelevant.
My thinking is that because of this any rock bottom a vaper could hit should be considered a nicotine addict low not a vaping low. However, perhaps it is less likely for a vaper to hit rock bottom than a smoker or someone who is dependent on the patches. That argument could fly

 

[AndriaD]

When I was struggling with my dehydration/electrolyte problems, I suppose that was a sort of "rock bottom", but mainly in that I knew I had to continue vaping or I would certainly go back to smoking.

When I got so ill that I couldn't eat OR vape and barely even drink anything and keep it down, for 4 days, then when that was finally, blessedly over, the taste of vapor was just putrid to me, and I *still* had the dehydration/electrolyte problems, in fact even worse than they had been because of all the liquids leaving me and being unable to replace them, then there was no if/else left to consider; I *did* go back to smoking, because I hadn't been vaping, and I could not, in good sense, go back to vaping full-time UNTIL I dealt with the dehydration/electrolyte problems.

But none of it was the fault of nicotine, or nicotine "addiction", per se; the dehydration/electrolyte problems were the fault of the PG/VG carriers being so dehydrating and me being so clueless as to exactly how bad that dehydration had gotten, so the electrolyte problems ensued. The cravings, I'm pretty sure, were mostly a factor of needing stress relief after the ungodly week I had spent: horribly ill, having surgery, and then dealing with the further, and worse, horrible illness in the aftermath of that surgery, while being unable to vape.

Andria

 

[DC2]

That's a very interesting post.because I'm certain I've hit rock bottom in my cigarette smoking I actually feel like vaping is climbing out of that rock bottom place. If you don't know what a cigarette smoking rock bottom looks like, let me explain, .....spending 12 dollars a day on cigarettes and digging for change because you can't really afford it, or... looking on the ground or in the ashtray for a .... to smoke when you have ran out. Picking the best used crushed dirty but you can find until you can get to the store. Falling asleep with a cigarette , or burning holes in your clothing, car, or jacket..that's not a pretty site but that's the harsh reality of a smokers rock bottom. Perhaps you should have asked that question. Because for many of us now., we are climbing up from that rock bottom with vaping.. so no I don't see vaping as any rock bottom, but as a way to climb out of the smokers rock bottom... yes nicotine is a stimulant, but so is caffine. And vaping is a way to crawl up and out of that rock bottom of smoking!!

Rock bottom as a smoker is something to take a serious look at...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/91466-seriously-how-many-you-have-done.html

 

[Loopy1224]

Very interesting thread. Like a few who responded I was a long term heavy smoker. I started at the ripe old age of 12 and quit in March of this year at 56 years young. I also tried every imaginable way to quit and failed horribly until i discovered vaping. Once i started i quit cigs in 24 hours. I started with 24 nic and am now down to zero in all new orders. I do still have some 6 nic liquid that i will finish. So here i am no longer addicted to nicotine - i can go days with 0 nic juice - but i believe i am somehow addicted to vaping. I know that there is no physical dependance yet i can't imagine giving it up. This tells me that the nicotine i got from cigarettes was only a small part of my addiction. So to sum this up my vaping rock bottom is that i am apparently addicted to being addicted


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[DC2]

The addiction to cigarettes goes far beyond the nicotine. There are a number of other alkaloids in tobacco smoke that are just as and maybe more addictive than the nicotine. This is why I believe electronic cigarettes are so successful at helping kick the smoking habit and eventually lower their nicotine level.

It's not so much that the other alkaloids are more addictive, but that the synergistic effect of the other alkaloids and nicotine are more addictive.
Without the other alkaloids, I think the vaping world has shown how much less addictive nicotine by itself really is.

 

[Weizenheimer]

Tldr

Just sayin