Is Cloning Ethical?

[SissySpike]

(I haven't read this entire thread so please forgive me if what I write is redundant or somewhat off-topic)

If "cloning" PV products is something that's considered acceptable business practice in China, who am I to argue that? How arrogant it would be for me to dictate standards for ethical business practice to a society and culture so very different from my own.

The only time I would find it "unethical" is when a company not only produces a duplicate product but also puts the original product/company name on it and tries to sell it as the original.

Hell, there's no real ethics in industry anyway (or anything else for that matter). There are only laws to govern acceptable practices, most of which are usually ignored. Everyone copies, clones and plagiarizes everyone else...whether it's industry, literature, art, music or whatever, there is nothing new under the sun!

On the flip side of the coin is it not arrogant for them to assume its ok when doing business with us?
EDIT: But then again lots of people buy the fakes and we are supposed to be the ones who dont follow that model so what dose that make us?

Claiming fake Gucci hand bags is a farce, ecigs aren't there yet. But yes, that is wrong and I have always preached against fakes. But fakes are not the same thing as a clone.

Now theres something I can agree with

 

[raqball]

And now back to the regularly scheduled programming....

LOLOL

how the majority of vapers here feel about dealing with vendors who manufacture and sell direct copies of modders' creations. Not thinking of similarly designed buttons or criticizing low cost,bulk equipment but those who directly steal and resell

 

[BostonJim]

I've been reading this thread off and on for a couple weeks now and have a few questions.
First what are we talking about? What is a clone as pertains to this thread? Are we talking about the battery case, if so someone please list the originals and some of the so called clones. I for one don’t know.

Second, is this about tanks? I do know a little about the difference between the original vs the clone when it comes to tanks. But a list of these would be helpful. Seriously though, how many different types are there. Top coil, bottom coil, and carto. Who cloned who?

Finally, is this all about people not buying a freaking Provari? Are all those who protest buying these so called clones really just annoyed that someone else bought a Zmax instead of a Provari, because I think it is.

I haven’t seen any complaints about AW batteries vs Efest vs Panasonic all selling the same things, so until its explained why this is, I’ll just assume this is just another Provari flame war.

 

[FLExJuice]

Funny you say that...it's a clone of the original question.

 

[Myk]

I've been reading this thread off and on for a couple weeks now and have a few questions.
First what are we talking about? What is a clone as pertains to this thread?

I agree. Someone needs to clarify and answer the question that was asked of the OP on the first page. Define clone as it is meant here.
Seems some people are talking fakes, i.e., duplicates sold with the same branding for the same price (Joyetech eGo-C vs fake Joyetech eGo-C). I know from experience others are calling anything similar but not sold as the original brand a clone (Vivi Nova vs Vision's Vivi Nova).

 

[FLExJuice]

I don't think there are any good fakes yet...but will see if anyone reviewed the ChiYou mod clone. Maybe the first "good" fake battery holder coming out of China. This is probably a good example of that the OP was referring to. The manufacturer pretty much copied everything on it. If anyone would like me to compare the two, please send me your original ChiYou and I'll compare it to the fake. =D

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005381/1429800-e-cigarette-mod-battery-compartment

I lied, there are many good "battery holder" clones out there. Here are a few:

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005075/1398603-v3-mod-telescoping-electronic-cigarette-battery

http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005307/1425200-sentinel-m16-mod-telescoping-e-cigarette-battery

As far as Hybrids goes, the Hybrid Elite, I-Atty, and I-Chybrid look like good clones.

Clone Wars! I say we call clones "Mutants" like in X-men. =D Might as well since many of these original modders use names from existing comic book characters (e.g Juggernaut, Magneto, Sentinel).

 

[raqball]

I thought the OP was pretty clear on the question they were asking but maybe I am just lost, dazed and confused.... I've quoted the OP twice and even put parts into bold lettering..

 

[fourtytwo]

I thought the OP was pretty clear on the question they were asking but maybe I am just lost, dazed and confused.... I've quoted the OP twice and even put parts into bold lettering..

Yes but, anything in bold immediately comes under the influence of either the Dr Who Perception filter - Tardis Data Core, the Doctor Who Wiki or the Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy Somebody Else's Problem field - Hitchhikers

 

[Penn]

I thought the OP was pretty clear on the question they were asking but maybe I am just lost, dazed and confused.... I've quoted the OP twice and even put parts into bold lettering..

This thread wouldn't have reached over 40 (edit: oops, 20, and the 2 and 4 aren't even the same finger) pages if people would have stuck to that definition. (and I might have actually read all the posts instead of skipping most of the redundancy)

 

[dr g]

I have to say that while I do not have a big problem with actual clones (i.e. cheaper unbranded versions of something), I DO have a problem with clones that bear the printed trademarks/logos of the originals -- that is counterfeiting. I am not too pleased to see that happening more and more.

 

[raqball]

I have to say that while I do not have a big problem with actual clones (i.e. cheaper unbranded versions of something), I DO have a problem with clones that bear the printed trademarks/logos of the originals -- that is counterfeiting. I am not too pleased to see that happening more and more.

I have a problem with both because it's theft either way IMHO.

True that the cheaper unbranded versions are not as troubling as the printed logo versions but someone is still ripping off the original creator of his/her design and specs..

The Russian (Kayfun clone) is a good example. They copied the specs to a T and even gloat on their website that Kayfun parts are interchangeable.. They took, stole, copied the exact specs and slapped a different name on it...

 

[Myk]

I don't think there are any good fakes yet...but will see if anyone reviewed the ChiYou mod clone. Maybe the first "good" fake battery holder coming out of China. This is probably a good example of that the OP was referring to. The manufacturer pretty much copied everything on it. If anyone would like me to compare the two, please send me your original ChiYou and I'll compare it to the fake. =D

$32.53 E-Cigarette Mod / Battery Compartment - stainless steel / silver at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

I lied, there are many good "battery holder" clones out there. Here are a few:

$18.11 V3 MOD Telescoping Electronic Cigarette Battery Compartment - gold at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

$16.22 Sentinel M16 Mod Telescoping E-Cigarette Battery Compartment - gold at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

As far as Hybrids goes, the Hybrid Elite, I-Atty, and I-Chybrid look like good clones.

Clone Wars! I say we call clones "Mutants" like in X-men. =D Might as well since many of these original modders use names from existing comic book characters (e.g Juggernaut, Magneto, Sentinel).

The V3 is a good example. I've heard of that referred to as a clone but it's not a clone of anything called a V3 so is it really a clone?
The Mini-DID clone is supposed to be a clone and it uses someone else's name, but when I search "mini-did" all I find are clones. If it's a modified version of something else to be "mini" is it a clone or a new product?
The V9 RDA is supposed to be a clone but FT has like 3 versions, which one is the clone or is any of them a clone?
The IGO-L clone uses the name and the looks but it uses different materials. Does that change qualify as a modification and a new product or a clone?

I thought the OP was pretty clear on the question they were asking but maybe I am just lost, dazed and confused.... I've quoted the OP twice and even put parts into bold lettering..

Repeating it doesn't explain it. Using your repetition as the definition then none of these items are clones and what are clones are actually called fakes. Use the correct terminology that follows along with every other business. It's not a clone Gucci handbag, it's a FAKE Gucci handbag. It's not a clone Rolex, it's a FAKE Rolex. And they do not have to be direct copies, only sold as if they were the originals with the original's name or a facsimile meant to deceive the consumer.
Use the correct term and there would be no need to define the new made up term.

I have always said fakes are bad for everyone. What I've seen called clones are not always bad because the term is used without definition. Most of the RBA's I've seen are all "clones" of each other but the term "clone" is reserved for when China makes them. In that case it's the racism that's bad.

 

[Myk]

True that the cheaper unbranded versions are not as troubling as the printed logo versions but someone is still ripping off the original creator of his/her design and specs..

And we're back to where only Ruyan has anything that's not a clone.
You just want to draw that rip off of the original creator line further away from Ruyan where it suits you.

 

[raqball]

Yawn......

And now back to the regularly scheduled programming....

LOLOL

how the majority of vapers here feel about dealing with vendors who manufacture and sell direct copies of modders' creations. Not thinking of similarly designed buttons or criticizing low cost,bulk equipment but those who directly steal and resell

 

[Myk]

Yawn......

And now back to the regularly scheduled programming....

LOLOL

So there is no such thing as a clone, and not even the fakes are clones because they are not direct copies but made with cheaper materials or workmanship.

Thanks for clearing that up. Then no, clones are not bad because they don't exist.

 

[raqball]

Oh my... Added to block list because I just can't stand to read the posts anymore..

 

[Myk]

Oh my...

You're the one who wanted to use that definition,
"direct copies" "directly steal and resell"

If you would like to actually provide something of substance and provide a better definition I'm all ears.

 

[Penn]

So there is no such thing as a clone, and not even the fakes are clones because they are not direct copies but made with cheaper materials or workmanship.

Thanks for clearing that up. Then no, clones are not bad because they don't exist.

Bingo. Some counterfeits apparently exist but I bet even those aren't actually clones, just very close. Just one observation, I have yet to see 2 brands with the thread count and positioning the exact same.

ETA - Yes, counterfeiting is ethical wrong, but by definition, clones don't exist to my knowledge.

 

[raqball]

No clone exists??????????? Wow, just WOW

clone (kln)
n.
1. A cell, group of cells, or organism that is descended from and genetically identical to a single common ancestor, such as a bacterial colony whose members arose from a single original cell.
2. An organism descended asexually from a single ancestor, such as a plant produced by layering or a polyp produced by budding.
3. A DNA sequence, such as a gene, that is transferred from one organism to another and replicated by genetic engineering techniques.
4. One that copies or closely resembles another, as in appearance or function

I put # 4 in BOLD

 

[Penn]

No clone exists??????????? Wow, just WOW



I put # 4 in BOLD

Ant yet you kept quoting

Originally Posted by Huffelpuff
how the majority of vapers here feel about dealing with vendors who manufacture and sell direct copies of modders' creations. Not thinking of similarly designed buttons or criticizing low cost,bulk equipment but those who directly steal and resell