New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[KenD]

Not if you're diabetic, because then it becomes protein .. protein .. and more protein.

There are certainly non-meat foodstuffs that could be added for that

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[KenD]

I am not overly concerned yet as to my vape being too warm, but suppose I want to get some ss 430 wire and experiment with a TC mod, wich wire should I get. I now mostly vape subtanks with 26 guage kanthal at .5-.7 ohms, what wire would duplicate the experience in stainless?

Use the same gauge and the same wrap count. Don't worry about the resistance being lower, at the same wattage the experience should be very similar.

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[mikepetro]

Yeah... So I should be (In Theory) be able to move my Subtank Mini off of my TC Mod and then put it on a Non-TC Mod and run it at 16 Watts and have the Same Non-Toxic Output. As long as I don't run the Tank Dry.

Chain vape on the TC mod for a bit, make sure it doesnt hit Temp limiting after 5 -6 vapes. Then, yes, I would trust the correlation.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

I am a MTL vaper too. NI drove me nuts, when I first tried to wrap a coil, after having been used to kanthal. Really though, it was just a learning curve, and not a bad or difficult one, to learn a different wire. Once I put my mind to it, my own stubbornness kept me going.

Many appear to find NI hard to work with, and for me, I went to it right away when TC started and found it very easy to work with. The hardest part was as I was testing out difference gauges, was that while 28 really holds it's shape well, 30 and 26 are extremely springy. The easiest thing you can do with them is to hook them to a tester that does heat, and just warm the wire for a second (just to the point that it smokes the "coating" but absolutely not glow it) and it stops being so springy and can be worked much easier.

I still prefer NI to SS for small builds and my cartridge rebuilds. I just find that it has a slower rate of heating up, so it's a more even coil and TC works much easier with it.

 

[zoiDman]

...

That doesn't change my opinion that TC is a solution to a problem that may or may not exist. Not that TC isn't useful, and it provides a consistent vape that for the most part completely eliminates the dry puff scenario. I would hate to have the existence of TC dissuade further investigation as to the safety of vaping without TC.

I Definitely think that TC can Solve a Problem that can Exist.

I just don't know what Setting should be Used for a given Atomizer? Or if Good Wicking and Airflow alone can solve the same Problem by themselves for All ranges of Wattages a user may choose to use?

 

[KenD]

One aspect of the issue is that a lot of folks stocked up a lifetime of supplies because of the FDA deeming. In many cases investing a lot of money in it. I can understand them not wanting to "obsolete" their stash.

Still, even a huge stash of kanthal wouldn't come close to what smoking for a month, or even a week, would've cost.

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[mikepetro]

Still, even a huge stash of kanthal wouldn't come close to what smoking for a month, or even a week, would've cost.

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True, but wire alone does not give them temp. They would still need at least one TC mod to use as a reference.

 

[KenD]

Not to hijack here, but for those who wondered about using A1 Kanthal in TC. Wotofo JUST released Thunder Box Mod wich do A1 TC!

Jus` sayin!

Does it actually do it properly and reliably? There have been a number of mods that claim to tc kanthal and nuchrome but to my knowledge only hohm tech has actually managed to do it. And even then it's not tc in the same way as with ni200, titanium, or ss.

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[KenD]

Unless they make a "plug and play" TC mod I don't see a lot of new vapers jumping in if VW is considered not safe because we don't know the temp. of the coil.

Tc is pretty much plug and play. Really not a lot more complicated than vw. Just a different wire and two instead of one variable to set really (one important, as wattage could be left high and won't affect the overall experience drastically. And for temp the range is pretty much the same whatever atty you're using).

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[zoiDman]

Chain vape on the TC mod for a bit, make sure it doesnt hit Temp limiting after 5 -6 vapes. Then, yes, I would trust the correlation.

Just an Update.

OK... I did a Fresh build on my Subtank Mini. It was 316L 26ga 3mm Coil @ 0.35 Ohms. Put it on a eLeaf Pico with TC set at 420F and 16.0 Watts. e-Liquid is 20%PG | 80% VG Unflavored. Muji Cotton Pancake wicking was flavored with Watermelon/Strawberry DIY. Airflow is set to 35% Open using a Toptank Mini New Style Base.

With my normal 5 ~ 6 Second Hit, on 30 Second Intervals (6 Hits Total), the TC never came on.

Doing a 5 ~ 6 Second Hit, on 5 Second Intervals (6 Hits Total), I did get the TC to come on after the 3rd Hit. And TC did Kick in Very Quickly on the 4th and 5th Hit. On the 6th Hit, TC was on about at the start. And the Normal Flavor had diminished. Not Burnt Tasting. Just Over-Used and in need of Rest tasting.

Also, I was able to get the TC to come on if I did Long Back-2-Back Hits with No Rest Interval between Hits.

Also have a Mild Nic Headache. And am in Need of a Big Glass of Water.

 

[KenD]

I would think that if my Kayfun lite with a cotton wick and a 3mm kanthal coil was heating in the 450 degree area that I would be getting significantly more vaper and burned cotton. Since I am not seeing that in my 8-12 watt vaping I suspect that my under 2 second draw is not reaching those temps at all. Not scientific but common sense tells me that a high coil temp would be burning my wick and producing a significant warm vapor.

It could very well be 450 or more. 480℉ and over is definitely possible with tc without getting burnt cotton. "Common sense" is incredibly unreliable and regularly leads us wrong. It's based on assumptions about things that we don't actually have enough knowledge to make qualified judgments about.

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[KenD]

Doesn't look the same to me:View attachment 639705 View attachment 639705 View attachment 639707

EDIT: Brought to my attention that I may have misunderstood you.

Don't aim for the same resistance but the same coil mass/heat flux (which I think you've understood from your edit). It's a common mistake, like people insisting focusing on "subohm resistances" rather than high power.

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[Bonskibon]

Don't aim for the same resistance but the same coil mass/heat flux (which I think you've understood from your edit). It's a common mistake, like people insisting focusing on "subohm resistances" rather than high power.

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Yup, I have a better understanding now and will do it the way you suggested. Thank you for your help.

 

[KenD]

It's not so much that it's a preference to me, but it is an easy wire for a cool MTL vape.

Ss works just as well. As I said earlier, just use the same gauge and the same coil id and wrap count and you should have a very comparable experience. Ignore that the resistance (it really, really doesn't matter in vw) is lower and keep the wattage the same as you're used to. Some minor tweaking might be required, but you certainly shouldn't double the wattage.

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[KenD]

I will be experimenting soon enough. I know SS will be my only option as the other choice wires are just to low of a resistance for me.

Forget the resistance. Seriously, just forget about it. Not trying to be a Richard by repeating this, just want you to have a satisfying experience with ss.

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[KenD]

Yeps. The atomic composition of kanthal means that it's resistance does not vary by any appreciable amount as it heats. A desirable quality for heating wire, no good for TC as the technology currently exists. But you can't trust atoms, they make up everything.

Some of my best friends are atoms

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[Eskie]

Does it actually do it properly and reliably? There have been a number of mods that claim to tc kanthal and nuchrome but to my knowledge only hohm tech has actually managed to do it. And even then it's not tc in the same way as with ni200, titanium, or ss.

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Ah, this one snuck under before addressing. That mod does not do TC on Kanthal. It offers the ability to create a custom curve to make it behave like TC (high at the start low at the end) but that is not temp control. Nor is it new. The Aspire NX75 offers it, and I think there are some others on the market as well. It's still a nice idea, and I expect you could fiddle around to get something very pleasing to personal taste, but it's not TC.

 

[WillyZee]

study was done by the California Dept of Public Health

I still say ... follow the money

 

[AttyPops]

Put it on a eLeaf Pico with TC set at 420F and 16.0 Watts.

Sorry. Digression. Is that one of the "M" modes where you set the watts but have TC? If you use the TC mode, you just set temp. (newbie)

So somehow you get a TC threshhold cutoff warning but are using wattage mode?

 

[KenD]

Forget the resistance. Seriously, just forget about it. Not trying to be a Richard by repeating this, just want you to have a satisfying experience with ss.

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@Bonskibon, I'm responding as I read the thread. Sorry if I'm coming on as annoying and pushy. I think I've repeated this thing at least one time too many now

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