Interesting but at what point in the vaporizing process does the PG separate from the VG? If a 50/50 mixture wicks to the coil wouldn't they both vaporize at the same rate? If a higher % of PG is vaporized it would seem the PG would have to separate from the VG before reaching the coil. Maybe the radiant heat from the coil actually separates the mixture while it is wicking, idk just curious.
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
- Thread starter mikepetro
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Interesting but at what point in the vaporizing process does the PG separate from the VG? If a 50/50 mixture wicks to the coil wouldn't they both vaporize at the same rate? If a higher % of PG is vaporized it would seem the PG would have to separate from the VG before reaching the coil. Maybe the radiant heat from the coil actually separates the mixture while it is wicking, idk just curious.
It's almost exactly like if you mix water and alcohol. They both have different boiling points and if you heat the mixture the alcohol will go first, leaving you with mostly water.
Boiling points isn't everything with vaping though as I get massive clouds weeeell under the boiling point of VG 290°C/554°F, but the experiments seem to show there's at least a correlation.
Boiling points isn't everything with vaping though as I get massive clouds weeeell under the boiling point of VG 290°C/554°F, but the experiments seem to show there's at least a correlation.
Aside from the boiling point, there's also the viscosity difference between PG and VG which is about 18X difference so the PG will be absorbed by the cotton about 18X faster then the VG. There are other factors to consider but looking at capillarity alone, PG makes it to the coil much faster than VG.
I vaguely remember a paper (my bookmarks have messy subdirectories) on the boiling point changing dramatically if you mix PG or VG with water, so my alcohol/water comparison may be a tad misleading.
A better statement would be to say it's almost exactly like alcohol and water, only it isn't
A better statement would be to say it's almost exactly like alcohol and water, only it isn't
I vaguely remember a paper (my bookmarks have messy subdirectories) on the boiling point changing dramatically if you mix PG or VG with water, so my alcohol/water comparison may be a tad misleading.
A better statement would be to say it's almost exactly like alcohol and water, only it isn't
To vaporize alcohol from water you have to maintain a temp above alcohol's boiling point but below water's.
eta: If your coil temp is above the boiling point of both pg & vg both will be vapor.
Once the two are mixed together they become one single viscosity not two separate. This is why I assumed some force must separate them before reaching the coil.
Yes, it doesn't take much water to reduce the boiling point of a VG or PG and water mixture quite substantially. But that doesn't change the fact that whichever component of a liquid mixture that has the lowest boiling point will be the first to depart as temperature increases.
Found it, turns out it's the same link found in mikepetros blog (that he linked on the previous page)
VG and PG vs Temperature | atmoslab.com
That's a quite dramatic change in the boiling point of either PG or VG.
That doesn't tell us what exactly the mix behaves like but I believe the experiment, however unrealistic, still hints at PG vaporizing first and from there it continuously approaches the base liquid ratio (which may happen in a very short amount of time).
VG and PG vs Temperature | atmoslab.com
That's a quite dramatic change in the boiling point of either PG or VG.
That doesn't tell us what exactly the mix behaves like but I believe the experiment, however unrealistic, still hints at PG vaporizing first and from there it continuously approaches the base liquid ratio (which may happen in a very short amount of time).
Not necessarily unless the alcohol is at least 50% of the makeup. This is precisely why people are often instructed to boil water after natural disasters such as hurricanes or earthquakes. Most people think it is to kill any bacteria but it is also to boil off any VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds) that also have a boiling point below water. However since water is still the primary substance so even if you lose a little bit, you are still left with a lot of potable water.
For some puffs, immediately after installing a new build or rewicking my RDA, I always notice that the amount of visible vapor produced is low but then that clears up. Perhaps the reason is those first few puffs are mostly PG, which doesn't produce much visible vapor. I always wondered how the early puffs could be weak. May be this boiling point difference is an answer and may be adding water to the mix encourages PG and VG to atomize more evenly? May be after the wick gets a little bit of carmalizing that helps heat both liquids more evenly? I don't add water to my DIY. May be I should try that. I use an RDA with stainless wire. My typical settings are 380 F 16-20 max watts, TC. I've always noticed variability in the amount of visible vapor with no obvious explanation.
Volume in my context was how many mg of ejuice per puff you are consuming.
If you have X% nasties/mg at a given temp, if adequately wicked you will consume more nasties in a quad 4mm coiled atty than you would consume in a single 2.5mm coil. There are some builds at the extreme end of the spectrum that consume a lot of mg of juice per puff.
My temperature testing definitely backed that up. DTL was roughly 50 degrees cooler per puff on this atty.
Actual Temperatures inside a Smoktech TFV8 Big Baby Beast. | E-Cigarette Forum
One might interpret this to imply that a person who huffs 30ml of juice a day is probably getting more bad stuff than someone who puffs 3ml a day.
Capillary action occurs at the molecular level and is highly dependent on the surface tension of the individual molecules in a mixture and not the mixed fluid. If the fluid constituents have similar properties then the capillary action will likely yield minimal separation. Check out this short article and experiment that explains how it works. Hope that helps.
That's fantastic. It looks like it's fairly consistent across the wattage levels tested with each MTL puff being about 8% hotter than the DTL. As always, excellent work @mikepetro!
One might interpret this to imply that a person who huffs 30ml of juice a day is probably getting more bad stuff than someone who puffs 3ml a day.
errr, ahhh....maybe X10?
One might interpret this to imply that a person who huffs 30ml of juice a day is probably getting more bad stuff than someone who puffs 3ml a day.
I wouldn't say it is even an interpretation, but more of an obvious fact. If heating 1ml of X substance to a specific temp creates Y substance then obviously heating 30X to the same temp would produce 30Y. Thus using higher nic and vaping less total volume of juice is going to be safer than lower nic at a higher volume.
The question then becomes at what total daily ml, at the temp at which you vape, does the production of Y start to exceed the Y you would be getting by smoking your old daily quantity of cigarettes?
Who cares, I vape what I like and I don't smoke cigarettes. There is a risk, I accept the risk, I attempt to minimize it. Almost whatever I do the risk is reduced as opposed to cigarettes. @mikepetro @Rossum and several others helped me understand what I was doing when vaping because I do not come from a scientific background, I changed some things reducing the risk and I appreciate that.
I actually enjoy the vape more after my changes than I did before. Before I was kept off cigarettes, now I enjoy what I am doing and for that I thank them.
I do not exclusively TC, I use power control and I use a mechanical squonker but I have a better idea what I am doing with all three.
I actually enjoy the vape more after my changes than I did before. Before I was kept off cigarettes, now I enjoy what I am doing and for that I thank them.
I do not exclusively TC, I use power control and I use a mechanical squonker but I have a better idea what I am doing with all three.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
