New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[awsum140]

Once again, dry type hits don't seem to be necessary for higher temperatures and higher aldehyde production. It's only a "seem" but erring on the side of safety is never a bad thing, IMHO, and "higher" may be very relative. Relying on taste, alone, may not be the best indicator.

 

[NU_FTW]

Ok after testing and burning some Bacon.. 100 tcr on the Pico is good for SS316L and provides at 420f-440. Don't know what the default settings for SS are still but gonna stick with tcr 100. That test was done on a single coil RDA.

Now I know that it works cause I have an RDA and RTAs, but what about those that are vaping on pre built tank coils? They can not do these tests and have to rely on mod maker to be accurate for them. Many have proven time and time again that they are not accurate...

yeah more reason to not use factory coils. I haven't in gosh four years maybe

 

[Bonskibon]

I still like and use the Kanger SSOCC coils and my builds are pretty darn close to the stock ones so not really concerned anymore after doing my test this morning and seeing I got some decent lead way until I hit the "danger zone" temp.

 

[Domejunky]

If choose to use SS and have a mod with adjusyable tcr I would recommend using 430SS. 316 can be fussy on some mods

I've been re-exploring TC on a few mods over the last week. I was using 316L, and the results were mixed. So I bought some tempered Ni200. On my DNA devices this has been amazing. I tested a Minikin and I don't trust the TC at all. I also used an iPV D2 which is smooth, but much warmer than the DNAs.

So it makes me wonder...either Evolv are conservative. Or Evolv are accurate and other boards are inaccurate. I'm tempted the think the latter as the results were consistent across 3 DNA40s and 2 DNA75s...

 

[Mowgli]

Hasn't this study been dubunked? Saying that if you were to hit the vape while it was that hot that it wouldn't taste good and you wouldn't even be able to hit it or like it. Now this 470 degrees this is all new , but I've been sub ohm vaping that high for years and itntaste just fine. That's just my opinion but I thought this got debunked all ready.

That was the previous "study" that used unvapeable level wattage on a CE4. 2 years ago.
Matt tried it at the voltage they used and it ain't pretty.
He used CE5, he didn't have a CE4 - equivalent?
(NC17 adult language warning)

This video is from 2 years ago.
It has nothing to do with the current discussion.
I'm only linking it to remind us how far from realistic scenarios they "test" just to get propaganda out there. Once it's out it scares the uninformed and has us fighting to put out fires that aren't real.
w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=lZQQZDavmyw

 

[cigatron]

Ok after testing and burning some Bacon.. 100 tcr on the Pico is good for SS316L and provides at 420f-440. Don't know what the default settings for SS are still but gonna stick with tcr 100. That test was done on a single coil RDA.

Now I know that it works cause I have an RDA and RTAs, but what about those that are Vaping on pre built tank coils? They can not do these tests and have to rely on mod maker to be accurate for them. Many have proven time and time again that they are not accurate...

Exactly, as I mentioned earlier. And where do 99.9% of those factory coils come from? And how's the quality assurance over there?
Your pisn in the wind if you run those coils at 450° and think you're not risking producing toxins.

 

[zoiDman]

Hasn't this study been dubunked? Saying that if you were to hit the vape while it was that hot that it wouldn't taste good and you wouldn't even be able to hit it or like it. Now this 470 degrees this is all new , but I've been sub ohm vaping that high for years and itntaste just fine. That's just my opinion but I thought this got debunked all ready.

Taste is Kinda Subjective.

A Friend of mine's Son vapes at Very High Wattages using Room Fogging coils. He let me try his rig one time and I just about Gagged. After about 2 minutes of coughing, I handed him My Set-up and told him to try it.

He took a Hit off it and His face got all Screwed Up. He then asked me How I could use something like that? It was Like Vaping Candy.

I told him I guess One Size Doesn't Fit All? And went to get a Drink of Water.

LOL

 

[Johnnyvapor18]

Taste is Kinda Subjective.

A Friend of mine's Son vapes at Very High Wattages using Room Fogging coils. He let me try his rig one time and I just about Gagged. After about a minutes of coughing, I handed him My Set-up and told him to try it.

He took a Hit off it and His face got all Screwed Up. He then asked me How I could use something like that? It was Like Vaping Candy.

I told him I guess One Size Doesn't Fit All? And went to get a Drink of Water.

LOL

What is your setup

 

[cigatron]

Taste is Kinda Subjective.

A Friend of mine's Son vapes at Very High Wattages using Room Fogging coils. He let me try his rig one time and I just about Gagged. After about 2 minutes of coughing, I handed him My Set-up and told him to try it.

He took a Hit off it and His face got all Screwed Up. He then asked me How I could use something like that? It was Like Vaping Candy.

I told him I guess One Size Doesn't Fit All? And went to get a Drink of Water.

LOL

Vaping candy....sounds good

 

[Just Me]

OK, so I guess I'll order a Pico. My mods are all Provaris, so not only can I not use TC, I can't use a sub-ish ohm coil. Not that I really want to vape lower than 1ohm in general, but for the price of a Pico, can't hurt to branch out a bit just to see...

I know nothing about SS, so I know I'll be reaching out for help. Stay tuned.

 

[Mowgli]

28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - 430 Grade Nickel Free - 200 feet - 100% Guarantee - Creating Unkamen

I have not used this 430ss. I'm still working on a spool I got from a friend. It came from zivipf in Germany.

138 tcr should work with 430ss. See chart.
View attachment 640267

When you get a new spool of wire, any wire, it's a good idea to test it's tcr using the 420°f dry cotton browning test. Once I find the actual tcr for a new spool I mark the tcr on the spool.

I used the browning test on cheapas fastech "316" coils and the true TCR for them was ~.00109, not .00092
Just to show how different quality wire will fluctuate.

The SS430 I'm using now is Unkamen and it's right on the money (TCR .00138).
Twisted 28ga to be sturdy enough to pull a fat rope of rayon through it.
It's outstanding at 420F on my SX350j Boxer

 

[Bonskibon]

OK, so I guess I'll order a Pico. My mods are all Provaris, so not only can I not use TC, I can't use a sub-ish ohm coil. Not that I really want to vape lower than 1ohm in general, but for the price of a Pico, can't hurt to branch out a bit just to see...

I know nothing about SS, so I know I'll be reaching out for help. Stay tuned.

It's a great little mod.

 

[Mazinny]

Quick question - Is it possible for aerosol yield to increase if we are encountering dry-puff conditions ?

 

[Lessifer]

I think it's time to call in Dr farsalnos and see what he has to say.

I can almost guarantee you he'd say something like limit your temp to below 400F just to err on the side of caution, even if there is no data that vaping outside of those conditions actually causes a health risk. He approaches vaping from a very specific perspective and usually believes that anything he feels is unnecessary and could potentially pose a risk should be eliminated.

 

[cigatron]

Once again, dry type hits don't seem to be necessary for higher temperatures and higher aldehyde production. It's only a "seem" but erring on the side of safety is never a bad thing, IMHO, and "higher" may be very relative. Relying on taste, alone, may not be the best indicator.

You think if we restate that a thousand more times folks will get it?

 

[Mowgli]

I am Glad you got a chance to do some Real World experimenting with a set-up that Mirrors you Kanthal set-up. Because I know you were kinda Freaked Out by some of the stuff in this thread.

I am Also Very Glad you had the Opportunity to do it with SS on a more Modern TC Device. Because if you had done it using a 1st Generation TC device with Ni-200 wire, your experience might have been Different.

JMO - But I think a Lot of people who used Early TC Mods with Ni-200 got turned off to TC. And may Not realize how overall TC Technology has Improved. And the advent of SS Wire has made TC Much Easier and more Enjoyable experience.

I tried the Ni200 coils that came with my Crown tanks. Gross.
I don't know if I'm just sensitive to Ni or if the mod was too-early to do TC well or if they're truly gross coils but that experience repelled me away from trying TC again. Crown coils are SS and I did enjoy the .25Ω coils (in wattage mode) almost exclusively for a half-year or so until I built an Aromamizer. A few weeks with the Aromamizer and I put away the Crown tanks. The SS coils were very good so when it came time to test (with TC) what level of hotness I enjoy I knew I wasn't sensitive to SS.
Did anyone actually like those Ni Crown coils?

EDIT - I tried the Kanger Subtank TC coils too and didn't like those either.
Did anyone like them better than the OCC?

 

[zoiDman]

What is your setup

It was a Suntank Mini with a 1.1 Ohm NiChrome 80 Coil @ 15.5 Watts running a DIY Fruit Punch.

 

[cigatron]

Quick question - Is it possible for aerosol yield to increase if we are encountering dry-puff conditions ?

Only if we were under powering our build/atty combo to begin with.
What I mean is under powering causes larger aerosol particles to be emitted from the coil. That's what causes "spitty vapor". As the wick begins to dry out the power is finally sufficient to properly atomize the liquid and yields more vapor output. Not just more but cooler at the mouth because of thermal absorption of the atty on the way. My take on it from playing around with this stuff for years.

 

[cigatron]

I used the browning test on cheapas fastech "316" coils and the true TCR for them was ~.00109, not .00092
Just to show how different quality wire will fluctuate.

The SS430 I'm using now is Unkamen and it's right on the money (TCR .00138).
Twisted 28ga to be sturdy enough to pull a fat rope of rayon through it.
It's outstanding at 420F on my SX350j Boxer

My zivipf 430ss browns cotton at .00142. Still very close % wise.

 

[Ca Ike]

Ok I'm not even close to finishing this thread but I'm giving up on it. You TC fanboys are worse than what some here claimed provape fans are.

There's one simple fact about kanthal all of you are missing. The fact that it has a stable resistance and heat flux means the temp is a direct function of power applied. So this myth that you can't dial in a coil temp with kanthal needs to stop. It's done EVERY day in many appliances from toasters to vape mods.