New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Mowgli]

I asked my cardiologist if he thought saline would be as safe.
We crunched the numbers and his opinion is the amount of salt that's used in my final mix should be insignificant regarding sodium vs blood pressure.

 

[Mowgli]

Which is good but I'd like even moar vapor. I mean as much as possible.
Does it allow a higher vaping temp before the chemical reaction makes nasties?

Does adding H20 allow a higher vaping temp before the chemical reaction makes nasties?

 

[mikepetro]

Which is good but I'd like even moar vapor. I mean as much as possible.
Does it allow a higher vaping temp before the chemical reaction makes nasties?

Not according to the reactor studies. Temp is temp is temp. VG starts giving off nasties around 410F. However, if your VG % is lower, then I would "assume" less nasties. You could probably get the same reduction by increasing the PG % as well, ie, it doesnt matter how you reduce your VG%.

ETA: The Reactor Charts back that up too, higher VG = more nasties at 410F.

 

[440BB]

Which is good but I'd like moar vapor.
Does it allow a higher vaping temp before the chemical reaction makes nasties?

I believe the "nasties" will occur at the same temperature regardless of the liquid mix and boiling point, so raising the temperature would increase your risk in any case. If I understand correctly, the water content and lower boiling point in your mix is giving you more vapor at your current temperature.

My goal is to get a good vape at safer lower temperatures, which the water helps. Perhaps adding a couple percent more water or saline solution can give you better vapor production at the same temps.

 

[Mowgli]

Funny thing is using the same type (SS430) twisted wire in the same configuration, all tried on 5 different 350j Boxers with correct TCR & same settings -
(same config = coils as big as possible all Ω between .165-.25)

Aromamizer V2 gives me the thickest, most flavorful vape in TC.
Then Boreas
Then Plus
I haven't tried my Supreme in TC

Doesn't seem that way in VW but TC seems to punch harder with a smaller chamber.
opinions?

 

[Eskie]

I don't know if I'd describe it as punching harder, but generally my smaller chamber tanks give me more intense flavor. I have been able to adjust the airflow and "balance out" a larger chamber for better flavor, but never quite the same flavor wise. I rarely use VW, so I can't say if there's a difference specific to TC. I do know I like the steady warmth of TC for flavor, so maybe that's also in play.

 

[mikepetro]

I have used nothing but Aromamizer V2s for the past 6 months, so dont have any comparison myself.

I have just recently introduced the Merlin RDTA to my pile, mainly for the thermocouple testing. It is a different beast though, single coil, but large diameter. Comes real darn close to competing with the dual coil Aromamizer V2 though.

 

[mikepetro]

Doesn't seem that way in VW but TC seems to punch harder with a smaller chamber.
opinions?

I just tried it on a Aromamizer V2.

• Ran in VW mode at 25w, was fine first hit but 2nd and 3rd hit were too harsh. Lower to 23w and it smoothed out.
• Ran in TC mode at 415F, MUCH better hits.

Just a theory. In TC you are probably hitting it with higher watts during that first second than when you run in VW mode at a fixed wattage. For example, in my little experiment the TC started around 40w until it hit temp and then gradually throttled the watts down 19w at the end. That could explain the perception of a harder hit versus 23w watts for the whole hit. At 23w it took a little longer to get up to temp. No way I would have like 40w for the whole hit though.

 

[Mowgli]

I have used nothing but Aromamizer V2s for the past 6 months, so dont have any comparison myself.

I have just recently introduced the Merlin RDTA to my pile, mainly for the thermocouple testing. It is a different beast though, single coil, but large diameter. Comes real darn close to competing with the dual coil Aromamizer V2 though.

$19.99 for V2's at SC right now. I got 3 more this AM. Shop Steam Crave - products
I sold most of my V1s but I still have about 12 mizers total, 7 Boreas, a Supreme & a Plus.
Add o-rings and I'm all set till I'm pushing up the daisies.

 

[Mowgli]

I'm used to 50W now. I enjoyed ~70W for about a year but now 50W wets my whistle.
I'm making some 3mg in that same menthol flavor that seems weak in the Plus @ 1mg.
That'll take away 1 variable. It wasn't dense enough with twisted 28ga SS430 so I doubt changing to twisted 27 is the issue.
I switched to VW and it takes 60W+ to start getting a good dense cloud. 70W is better but it's getting hot now. If 3mg doesn't get me enough TH to simulate density I think my Plus'll go to the classifieds.

 

[D_pen]

Wow... why is this the first time I'm reading about this ? I must truly live under a rock...

 

[salemgold]

It certainly does. In the context of my comment though, the person I was responding to was already at a 50/50 pg/vg ratio, so the boiling point was already low enough to be below the danger points expressed in the reactor study. H20 really wasnt needed.

I use a 50/50 mix. I feel like it certainly doesn't hurt. The other plus is that I find that the liquid is not as drying as without.

 

[mikepetro]

Wow... why is this the first time I'm reading about this ? I must truly live under a rock...

LOL, what part? This thread has kind of gone to Georgia and back.

 

[DaveP]

I believe the current trend is to use max VG among many vapers, so a bit of water would seemingly help them reach boiling temperatures and thereby create vapor at cooler temperatures in general.

I did it for viscosity improvement but now realize it may have helped me in terms of safer temperatures also.

I'm still old school. 70pg/30vg at 10W or 350F in TC mode with a max setting of 400F.

It's all good with tobacco flavors or fruit, dessert, and candy flavors. All I'm looking for is an approximation of a Marlboro with an occasional excursion into sweets for a change.

I'm glad to see that flavoring suppliers are giving us Diacetyl warnings and more info about things in the flavorings that we should know about.

 

[mikepetro]

OK, I plan to play with thermocouples again this weekend. I am open to proposals for tests (that make sense).

One round of tests I plan on is I am going to mix the following juices:

• 100% vg
• 90%vg and 10% H20
• 50/50 pg/vg
• 75/25 pg/vg

I will then vape them in temp mode. Starting at very low 200F, and slowing increasing temp until I get:

• The start of some visible vapor
• A meaningful amount of vapor
• The beginnings of a burnt tasting hit

Recording the temps that I reach at each stage for each juice.

While my perception of "meaningful vapor" is subjective, nonetheless it "should" validate the boiling point concept. I.e. being able to lower temp setting if you lower the boiling point of your juice.

 

[Rossum]

OK, I plan to play with thermocouples again this weekend. I am open to proposals for tests (that make sense).

One round of tests I plan on is I am going to mix the following juices:

• 100% vg
• 90%vg and 10% H20
• 50/50 pg/vg
• 75/25 pg/vg

I will then vape them in temp mode. Starting at very low 200F, and slowing increasing temp until I get:

• The start of some vapor
• A meaningful amount of vapor
• The beginnings of a burnt tasting hit

Recording the temps that I reach at each stage for each juice.

While my perception of "meaningful vapor" is subjective, nonetheless it "should" validate the boiling point concept. I.e. being able to lower temp setting if you lower boiling temp.

May I suggest you measure the actual boiling point of each of those mixtures as well?

 

[mikepetro]

May I suggest you measure the actual boiling point of each of those mixtures as well?

Not a bad idea, any suggestions on method? I can measure it easy enough, the heating part needs some thought.

 

[Rossum]

Not a bad idea, any suggestions on method? I can measure it easy enough, the heating part needs some thought.

Yeah, that's why I haven't done it myself. I bought some pyrex beakers and a digital thermometer, but I only have a gas stove here, and I decided bringing a mixture of somewhat flammable liquids to a boil in a fragile glass beaker over an open flame might not be the best idea in the world.

 

[D_pen]

LOL, what part? This thread has kind of gone to Georgia and back.

The exposure that is produced when vaping above 450F . Maybe i can get this thread to go further than Georgia and inquire the construction of a vacume atomizer haha WELCOME TO THE THE FUTURE

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, that's why I haven't done it myself. I bought some pyrex beakers and a digital thermometer, but I only have a gas stove here, and I decided bringing a mixture of somewhat flammable liquids to a boil in a fragile glass beaker over an open flame might not be the best idea in the world.

Stainless Steel Pan and a good Candy Thermometer?