New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[rokyo87]

OK, I don't understand a few things...

Boiling point of PG is 188,2°C. Why carcinogens levels start to raising after 248°C and not before? Doesn't make sense. Why not at around 190°C?

Boiling point of VG is 290°C. Why carcinogens levels start to raising at 210°C and not later? Again doesn't make sense. Why not after 290°C?

 

[mikepetro]

OK, I don't understand a few things...

Boiling point of PG is 188,2°C. Why carcinogens levels start to raising after 248°C and not before? Doesn't make sense. Why not at around 190°C?

Boiling point of VG is 290°C. Why carcinogens levels start to raising at 210°C and not later? Again doesn't make sense. Why not after 290°C?

Different substances, different properties. Just like sugar caramelizes at a certain temp, or teflon starts giving off bad stuff at a certain temp (500ish??). These are just the temps that these substances go into thermal degradation and nasties are a by-product of that degradation. And the Boiling Point is not the trigger, the specific temp is the trigger. For example VG doesnt have to boil to degrade.

 

[kiba]

okay i know nothing here i just vape so can someone tell me if my style of vaping is in the safe range. I use a provari with a kabuki tank. i vape at 13.4 watts and 4.7 v. I use aspire nautilus bvc atomizer. Have no idea what kind of cotton it uses and yes i understand nothing it's all over my head. I am soo busy with my life i barely have time to breath between school and work. Mike am i vaping safely and within safe limits per your study. I appreciate all you have done to help us vapors be more informed.

my sister in law uses a kabuki/radius and those nautilus coils are probably the smallest I've seen. It wouldn't be an easy one to test.

The ones that Mike will be able to test most likely bottom air rba's with a wide enough afc and inlet tube so he can put a thermocouple through and tuck it under a wire. nautilus heads are tiny & don't have any exposed wire.

 

[mikepetro]

Gawd, what sucks is that I have tried almost everything mentioned at one time or another. I just wasnt paying attention to temperature back then, let alone how I could measure it. Alas all that stuff either got PIFd, or trashed, as I followed my journey.

I got a new batch of thermocouples arriving today.

I might stop by the local vape shop and look for interesting victims, if they arent charging too much for them.

Also, those cotton samples are due in today. Honestly I think the whole cotton vs rayon thing is mostly personal preference once you get to that performance level. The tests I run are going to be all about liquid delivery performance, not subjective taste. I already proved the main point I wanted to make, silica is not a good choice (at all), and likely contributed to the bad results seen on the Gen 2 device tests.

 

[Rossum]

I already proved the main point I wanted to make, silica is not a good choice (at all), and likely contributed to the bad results seen on the Gen 2 device tests.

Right. Pretty much everyone who's serious about vaping ditched silica long ago and uses either cotton or rayon. We may not have known exactly why silica sucked in comparison to cellulose fibers, but it was pretty obvious that it did.

 

[Sqhertz1]

Maybe I missed it but what Temps to standard egos run at with 1.8 - 2.2 coils?

 

[DeAnna2112]

DeAnna, in the linked study device #4 was a Nautilus tank ( 2.2 ohm coil ). They used a smoking machine and it "vaped" every 30 seconds ( 4 second pulls ). The amount of formaldehyde, acetaldehyde and acrolein emitted was very very low ( non-existent for all intents and purposes ) at 13 watts . Obviously the smoking machine doesn't vape like you do, but hopefully this study is at least a little comforting

Effect of variable power levels on the yield of total aerosol mass and formation of aldehydes in e-cigarette aerosols

thank you Mazinny!!!

 

[mikepetro]

Maybe I missed it but what Temps to standard egos run at with 1.8 - 2.2 coils?

Not sure what you mean by "standard ego". But check this post out:

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...vi-nova-on-both-vv-and-vw-devices.7865/unread

 

[mikepetro]

Right. Pretty much everyone who's serious about vaping ditched silica long ago and uses either cotton or rayon. We may not have known exactly why silica sucked in comparison to cellulose fibers, but it was pretty obvious that it did.

But the vape shops are still full of it, and Billy Bob walking in for his first device stands a high probability of getting it.

Technology advanced, and many of us kept up with it, but the vendors have not thrown away the low end, in fact they sell that junk at the local gas station now.

 

[Rossum]

But the vape shops are still full of it, and Billy Bob walking in for his first device stands a high probability of getting it.

Technology advanced, and many of us kept up with it, but the vendors have not thrown away the low end, in fact they sell that junk at the local gas station now.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that if it gets people off cigs (or even reduces their habit substantially), that "junk" is still a net win.

I went from 40+ cigs a day to 1 with this in December of 2013:

Some PT2s and bigger "spinner" batteries got me to zero less than a week later.

 

[mikepetro]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that if it gets people off cigs (or even reduces their habit substantially), that "junk" is still a net win.

I went from 40+ cigs a day to 1 with this in December of 2013:

Some PT2s and bigger "spinner" batteries got me to zero less than a week later.

Good, and very valid point......

I just cant help but lobby for "better"......

 

[Mazinny]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that if it gets people off cigs (or even reduces their habit substantially), that "junk" is still a net win.

I went from 40+ cigs a day to 1 with this in December of 2013:


Some PT2s and bigger "spinner" batteries got me to zero less than a week later.

But the vape shops are still full of it, and Billy Bob walking in for his first device stands a high probability of getting it.

Technology advanced, and many of us kept up with it, but the vendors have not thrown away the low end, in fact they sell that junk at the local gas station now.

Valid points all around. Let's not forget that a lot of the people who buy the gas station junk eventually end up buying better stuff. The gas station junk is just a stepping stone.

I also know a few people who used cigalikes and gas station junk to transition away from smoking, and no longer smoke or vape. That's a net win as well

 

[440BB]

A vapers intention, whether vaping is a short term means to make the transition or a permanent method to avoid returning to smoking, is a factor. Those who succeed in stopping smoking as well as vaping within a year or so have capped their risk.

I wish I had that will power or didn't completely enjoy vaping, making this research a moot point for me.

 

[mikepetro]

A vapers intention, whether vaping is a short term means to make the transition or a permanent method to avoid returning to smoking, is a factor. Those who succeed in stopping smoking as well as vaping within a year or so have capped their risk.

I wish I had that will power or didn't completely enjoy vaping, making this research a moot point for me.

Yeah, I have no intentions of ever quitting.

For that matter, I have made no effort to reduce my nic levels either. But we self regulate, and I do notice that I consume a lot less (probably half) of the juice than I used to.

It could be argued, that if Wang and Guiss are right, and there are nasties in our juice, then a higher nic level would actually reduce your exposure, since you would self regulate by vaping less.

Thats not my excuse though, I want to feel the stimulant of a hit, every time...... Brutal honesty!

 

[Eskie]

Valid points all around. Let's not forget that a lot of the people who buy the gas station junk eventually end up buying better stuff. The gas station junk is just a stepping stone.

I also know a few people who used cigalikes and gas station junk to transition away from smoking, and no longer smoke or vape. That's a net win as well

Yup, I was one of those with Vuse. Moved on to a set from Halo like @Rossum . From there on to vape clutter all over the place.

But I'm still not smoking.

 

[kiba]

You want to talk about a real pos? I started with this, bc there really was no other option at the time, in fact the reason I first visited this forum was to try to figure a way to get the cartridges to work, tried sticking stuff into them, ended up de-bridging them and just directly dripping into them...

I wasn't till I got my very first rba, (a line) that I was successfully able to permanently quit.

 

[Eskie]

I had a Halo With those clearos and then in another order they threw in a freebie cigalike in a little case with an order of juice. I PIF'd both those sets on to others who wanted to check out vaping to stop smoking.

And one of my favorites remains Tribeca, my very first real juice.

 

[mikepetro]

You want to talk about a real pos? I started with this, bc there really was no other option at the time, in fact the reason I first visited this forum was to try to figure a way to get the cartridges to work, tried sticking stuff into them, ended up de-bridging them and just directly dripping into them...

I wasn't till I got my very first rba, (a line) that I was successfully able to permanently quit.

I hear you. This was the first one I tried, back around 2010, never did get it to work for more than avoiding tobacco for a few hours. Gave up on it after a week or two.

Then I found this around New Years 2013, havent smoked tobacco since the first time I puffed it. I took one puff and realized that "this" could actually work!

After that has been a long succession of trying most anything that was getting good reviews. I learned how to make my own juice, I learned how to make my own mods, and really I am satisfied with the mid 2016 tech and havent been searching anymore since. I can build that tech to be stronger than I think i would ever desire, but I can also tone it down to that "just right" for me place.

Bright and shiny is cool and all, but if I never advanced past where I am at now, I would be perfectly happy.

 

[awsum140]

Speaking of POS that was used to quit tobacco, here is my first "real" kit after trying a Blu. I did manage to get off tobacco with this, but it was a real struggle. I ended up with about eight batteries just to get through a day. From that I went to Volt auto cig-a-likes for about a year. Now I sit here and wonder how I ever managed to quit with either of them.

 

[Mazinny]

Yup, I was one of those with Vuse. Moved on to a set from Halo like @Rossum . From there on to vape clutter all over the place.

But I'm still not smoking.

Yeah, i think a lot of us followed the same path. I didn't use Vuse though, it wasn't around back in 2011/2012. In fact i don't believe big tobacco was in the cigalike business at all until about late 2012. I used Njoy kings, Eon, Blu, Logic and a couple more brands i don't remember. Logic and Blu were bought out by BT a little after that time.

From cigalikes i moved to an ego/ce4 set-up and then Vivinova, iClear, PT2 etc.... Some time in late 2013 was when i finally moved away from silica, re-building the PT coils. First using organic cotton balls, and then KGD was discovered by vapers !