Nah I can't say I perceive any difference.
New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
- Thread starter mikepetro
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I've kinda been meaning to try 430 SS. Just haven't gotten around to doing so.
Most of what I have read about it is people using it I with TC. I just don't use TC all that much. So I was curious if it performs much Different in VW Mode.
Yeah it apparently shines on TC. That's why I got it. I just need to find out how to use Escribe so I can load its TCR in the JAC....
My 24g and 26g SS430 from zivipf.de is exactly .00138
It's almost clean enough to use right off the spool too.
I use isopropyl on a vaper towel to clean it but it leaves very little residue.
Gotcha.
Sounds like it is worth trying.
Last Question and then back to Regular Programing. What is a Good Source for 430 SS?
My 24g and 26g SS430 from zivipf.de is exactly .00138
It's almost clean enough to use right off the spool too.
I use isopropyl on a vaper towel to clean it but it leaves very little residue.
anyone else think its interesting that here it seems VG produces more toxins, however studies such as this Carbonyl Compounds in Electronic Cigarette Vapors: Effects of Nicotine Solvent and Battery Output Voltage propose PG as the main culprit?
The above article also mentions PEG produced little decomposition produces, @mikepetro any chance you have looked at PEG vaporization in your setup? Also, would you recommend adding DI water to our juices to prevent formation of such aldehydes?
I would also assume a ceramic coil would distibute heat across a higher SA and prevent the fast temperature rise we see on metal coils?
cheers guys
The above article also mentions PEG produced little decomposition produces, @mikepetro any chance you have looked at PEG vaporization in your setup? Also, would you recommend adding DI water to our juices to prevent formation of such aldehydes?
I would also assume a ceramic coil would distibute heat across a higher SA and prevent the fast temperature rise we see on metal coils?
cheers guys
Since you can't post a link yet:
Carbonyl Compounds in Electronic Cigarette Vapors: Effects of Nicotine Solvent and Battery Output Voltage
I have not tested PEG, though I do have some and it is a candidate for when I can get back to testing.
As for the report, I dont find it of much value because it is just another report looking at the wrong variable, using faulty vape gear. It looked at "Voltage" and then drew a correlation to aldehydes, which is a false assumption. The production of aldehydes is a by-product of thermal degradation. "Thermal" being the keyword, ie temperature is the correlating variable. Even that report stated that "Both VG and PG have been shown to decompose at high temperatures". So running a test at 3.9v on a Crystal 2 Clearomizer proves nothing regarding the temperature at which the aldehydes starting being produced. Obviously higher voltage equals higher temp, but what was the temp? There are a whole bunch of variables involved that affect the coil temp of an atty.
Furthermore the Crystal 2 Clearomizer is essentially a CE4 which has already been proven to be a flawed design and unsafe at any level. Newer atty designs fair much better regarding thermal degradation.
Regarding PG vs VG, in my own testing I found inconclusive results as to which is better, I have theories as to why this may be, but I dont have the knowledge or equipment to prove it out. DI seemed to help big time. I need more samples of different ratios to extrapolate better conclusions though.
Bottom line is that you have to test the vapor as it is actually used by someone who is vaping. To my knowledge, my testing (while crude by scientific standards) is the only published testing that used real vape gear and a real vaper's subjectivity to eliminate burnt or dry hits. That test back in 2014 is flawed because they didnt understand the process of vaping, and how it relates to thermal degradation of ejuice. They used the worst possible atty, they didnt use a real vaper to subjectively eliminate burnt/dry hits, and their machine didnt simulate the way a vaper actually vapes. Most crucial of all, they didnt measure the temperature as it related to aldehydes. So how can you trust any conclusion they drew?
I recommend adding DI because it reduces the boiling point at which one can find a satisfying vape, thereby allowing one to run lower temperatures. Lower temperatures equal lower aldehydes........
I suggested testing using DI in various juice mixtures about a month ago, Mike has agreed to test this when he gets back into testing. You may click that link and read a few pages, there is some interesting discussion.
In the early testing here using a Vivi Nova the liquid mix I sent was 5% water, which I strongly suspect is the reason that temps at the low power levels I use were in the upper 300's to lower 400's Fahrenheit. I believe outside of Mike's testing water was not in the mixes tested by the scientific community at large. If there was some in the premixed liquid they used it wasn't documented.
Whatever one's mix and topper, a bit of water definitely helps give a good vape at lower temps. I originally added it to thin the VG in my mixes to keep my top coils happy and was pleasantly surprised that it also reduced my risk a bit.
Whatever one's mix and topper, a bit of water definitely helps give a good vape at lower temps. I originally added it to thin the VG in my mixes to keep my top coils happy and was pleasantly surprised that it also reduced my risk a bit.
Had to think on this one a bit.
Ceramic, and other types of high mass coil heads, take more power and/or time to reach an optimal vape temperature. So yes, ceramic has a slower RoR than a low mass metal coil.
I would think the Rate of Rise (RoR) is a double edge sword, and the desired RoR depends on how you "regulate" your vape.
In temperature control circles a fast RoR is often desirable for a nice hard hit. But... with TC you are maxing out at a specific temp, so the RoR is simply how fast you get there. It can throw a ton of power at the coil for a few milliseconds to get it at optimal temp quickly, but then level off to a lower power level to maintain that temp.
If you regulating via VV (a Mech qualifies) or VW, then RoR would make a difference in the final temp. If you typically take a 3 sec puff and a high mass (slow RoR) then you will reach a lower temp at the end of that 3 secs than if you had a high RoR. So, depending on your build, you might desire a faster or slower RoR.
I'm thinking a ceramic coil would retain heat longer, making it important not to chain vape if not using TC.
Hi guys, just a quick question.
I have been using bottom feeders since forever now. My coils are always the same 26G kanthal and vaping non regulated at about 50 watts (that's actually 2 coils 25W per coil, so power of each one is half of that, but who knows what happens with the wire temperature when 2 coils are next to each other). My atties are mainly nuppin's and the like. So can anyone guess if I would be surpassing any harmful temps? I know its a stupid question, and there is no way to know, that's why i used the term "guess". I am thinking as people with experience, you could probably tell if 25 watts on a 2 coils of 26G wire is too much or not?
I have been using bottom feeders since forever now. My coils are always the same 26G kanthal and vaping non regulated at about 50 watts (that's actually 2 coils 25W per coil, so power of each one is half of that, but who knows what happens with the wire temperature when 2 coils are next to each other). My atties are mainly nuppin's and the like. So can anyone guess if I would be surpassing any harmful temps? I know its a stupid question, and there is no way to know, that's why i used the term "guess". I am thinking as people with experience, you could probably tell if 25 watts on a 2 coils of 26G wire is too much or not?
If I were to take a W.A.G. I would say you are probably in the little warm range when the bats are fresh, then after you drain a bat a little you are probably in the OK range. Just a guess though, and thats assuming since you are BFing that you have fully saturated coils. Once those coils go too dry you are in a questionable zone.
Thanks Mike, I know how hard is to come up with a W.A.G.
.I am always over squonking, can't remember the last time i had a dry hit. When I have some time I will try to get a TC BF mod and try to replicate the same setup and check if the feeling I get is in the zone or not. It will be very hard because of the difference in wires to get the same setup and compare though.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
