Nicotine/Cotinine test for employment

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NightNurse

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    First, I want to say wow.. I'm surprised at the number of responses my post received! Thanks so much to all of you for your advice, support, encouragement, etc. I appreciate it.

    Second.. I passed!! :rickroll:

    I vaped 0mg liquid for 6.5 days before my test, which was the urine cotinine test. Didn't drink more water than usual (a diluted specimen is a red flag and looks bad), but did drink 1-2 cups of green tea per day as well. That's it. Oh, I also scheduled my exam for the afternoon so I wasn't using a first morning specimen, and I caught it midstream (meaning I peed a little in the toilet before the cup - sorry for being graphic, but if this helps anyone else pass, then it's ok!)

    To answer someone's question about other sources of nicotine besides cigs - the hospital (and every hospital system in SE Michigan is doing this testing, although I cannot speak for the VA system) does not care about the source of the nicotine/cotinine. Even if you have a prescription from a doc for NRT (patches, gum). If you test positive, it doesn't matter if it was from cigs, vaping, patches, whatever... job offer rescinded. That's that. Fair? Make sense? Of course not.

    We're on a slippery slope, people.

    Anyway, just wanted to update y'all, share my good news and say thanks again for your support :wub:

    PS.. I'm still vaping 0mg. Haven't decided if I'm going to stick with that, or go back to my nic. We'll see.
     
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    Moedog

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      Simply because there is no constitutional protection afforded for those who choose to consume tobacco products, nicotine or any other substance for that matter.

      No one is born a smoker... nor nicotine dependent, addicted or whatever classification you want to apply.

      While it's an inconvenience, unjust or may feel unfair to those of us who have chosen to ingest this stuff... We're all guilty of engaging in a habit that no one can honestly dispute as being good for you. And therefore a right to be protected against discrimination.

      While I don't subscribe to the train of thought but if you consider certain jobs where the ability to assess risk/harm is a critical skill... 99.9% of smokers demonstrate a poor ability in this area where they failed to make the right choice for their own health despite a wide body of available statistics and proof that smoking is bad for you.

      The irony in many cases... especially the health industry is glaring. They'll be the first to deny employment or fire someone with nicotine in the body... yet the don't think twice about the rampant obesity within the whole industry.
      How can this poster NOT be considered a troll? I don't consider myself to have "made a bad decision" at all in chosing to vape. The fact is, my decision to vape OR smoke is none of your business and none of my employer's business. This is the slippery slope we entered when our society embraced the whole drug testing thing.
       

      MD_Boater

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      Nov 6, 2013
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        This guy says grapefruit juice prevents nicotine from being metabolized to cotinine...
        http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ion/527251-telling-doctor-2.html#post12237209

        Well... I AM that guy. :laugh:

        I didn't just make it up. I was doing research, and I found this article on pubmed.

        From the conclusions, "Grapefruit juice inhibits the metabolism of nicotine to cotinine, a pathway mediated by CYP2A6, and increases the renal clearance of nicotine and cotinine.".

        I vaped 0mg liquid for 10 days. I allowed myself to indulge by dripping some (whatever it took to satisfy me) 18mg juice every night during those 10 days. Immediately after doing so, I drank either 1 or 2 full glasses of Ocean Spray white grapefruit juice. They test for cotinine because it stays in the body longer than the nicotine. Drinking the GF simply prevents that chemical change, and the nicotine passes through relatively quickly. My test results were 0ng/ml for both substances. I have a copy of the written results.

        Good luck!
         
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        armchairnomad

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          Having worked as a contracted employee of one of the largest diagnostic screening companies in the US for over 2 years, I can give some insight that may answer some questions that have been asked.

          Here is how some of these programs work. Said diagnostic company contracts with say, a large hardware chain, to screen their employees for health problems. The tests the company opts to run will determine the price asked, as well as how many employees, how many locations, etc...

          Once a deal is set, the company will notify their employees of upcoming health fairs, and also of offsite locations where health screenings can be done. These tests often include HDL, LDL, glucose or HgbA1c, bp, Cotinine (which some companies opt to do, others don't, and still others decide to simply ask their employees on a questionairre), numerous other tests as well as biometric data such as height, weight, bmi, etc.. They will also be notified of the benefits of completing both a health screening and an online health questionairre, which was often a complete series of questions all the way from do you buckle your seat belt every time you drive, to how much meat and dairy do you eat in a day, how often you drink and drive, and more.

          Once the employee finishes the process, they will often get a reduced rate on their insurance premiums for that year, until the company does it all over again the year after. Who knows if this information will be used to later actually increase rates, which many people feared in speaking with the employees being asked to do these tests. Some of the greedier companies would only offer a ticket to a drawing for an iPad or some bs, while the company saves a ....load of cash on their employees health insurance premiums.

          Since it is illegal for companies to discriminate based on these test results, or even obtain the results, the companies will use a third party to collect this information, which could be the insurance company themselves, or a middleman between the insurer and the company. Either way, the signed releases state that the information could go to as many as 15 different "health and wellness vendors" such as WebMD, insurers, a myriad of government agencies, and benefits administrators. Basically everybody BUT the company themselves gets to see the information.

          What the company gets is a hugely discounted rate on their employees health premiums, and an aggregated report that gives percentages of their workforce that may be at risk for diabetes, heart attacks, obesity, cancer, etc...

          Many times, when "participants" as we called them, would inquire about the exact and complete list of where this information was being sent, said diagnostic company would send them through hoops trying to get an answer. The "participant" is given a contracted call center phone number by his or her company, that call center doesn't have that information most of the time, so they check the diagnostic companies website. The number given there isn't even in service. Call center gives the customer a corporate number, they tell him to call the call center, and on and on.

          Anyhow, I hope this answered some questions posted here.
           
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          NightNurse

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            Also if it hasn't been said to the OP already, Cotinine is a byproduct of nicotine that is actually tested through a blood draw, not a urine test.

            Yes, cotinine is a byproduct of nicotine and it absolutely can be detected in a urine test. Most employers/insurance agencies use the urine test because it's faster/cheaper, and cotinine shows up in the urine for a longer period of time compared to blood or saliva. Believe me when I say that I did extensive research on this.

            Not only that, they did not draw my blood, and performed the urine test right in front of me.

            Here is some info from the Mayo Clinic laboratories: NICOU - Clinical: Nicotine and Metabolites, Urine
             
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            Lucky1384

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              Congratulations on passing! My first thought would have been if it was positive, to tell them you are using nicotine patches, but they may see the rather high failure rate of those and assume you would go back to smoking eventually.

              I guess I'm rather lucky in working for a company who pays for top level health insurance, smoker or not, and who actively encourage vaping while you work instead of having to go outside every hour for 5 mins to smoke. We have even had a few suggestions from Managers to purchase any smoker an Ego starter kit to encourage them :D I really wish this sensible approach was more universally taken.
               

              zahzoo

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                How can this poster NOT be considered a troll? I don't consider myself to have "made a bad decision" at all in chosing to vape. The fact is, my decision to vape OR smoke is none of your business and none of my employer's business. This is the slippery slope we entered when our society embraced the whole drug testing thing.

                What? I present an opinion that you don't agree with and now I'm a "troll"? LMAO...

                I clarified a few posts after my original that I was referring to taking up burning tobacco was the bad "decision" .

                While you can say your choices for vaping or smoking is no one's business. On one hand that's true... but on another hand... employers take a lot of factors about people and their choices into consideration before hiring. For certain jobs it's imperative for others... not so much.

                Thanks for the laugh on the troll boloney... ;)
                 

                beckdg

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                  By that logic should they also test your cholesterol? Why not deny employment to people that are overweight, have diabetes, or any other condition?

                  why would you go and say that now? that's the last thing i need. heck, i was considered over weight at the MEPS station when i was 17 and 2% body fat. had to get a waiver then. now i'm almost 20 pounds heavier. i'd be considered a fat cow if the military would take me at my age.
                   

                  DC2

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                    I'm very glad you passed. I vape 3mg, and would be curious to see if someone who vaped 3 could pass.
                    I vape about one milliliter of 12mg per day, if not less.

                    I recently bought some cotinine tests but I keep forgetting to use them.
                    But I am going to start using them to see where things stand.

                    I now have insurance issues, as most of us now do, and the rest of us soon will.
                    I'll try to remember to keep this thread posted on my results.
                     
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