Obama signs anti-smoking bill

[Smokin'Sandy]

No doubt. But the FDA's actions seem clear in this regard. They seem to be moving towards formalizing a policy that defines them as drug delivery devices, subject to FDA approval and regulation. I think it's a mistake on their part, but it's going to be a fight to keep them from being classified in that way.




Absolutely. The juice is the issue for sure. There's no way to avoid having it classified as a drug... since it is a drug. By the same token, caffeine is a drug too, and there's no significant FDA regulation going on with it.

There might be soon:

Database of Select Committee on GRAS Substances (SCOGS) Reviews

In addition to considering these eight factors, the Select Committee views with concern the continued addition of caffeine to cola-type beverages, representing as it does a unique addition to food of a pharmacologically active central nervous system stimulant. The amount of caffeine consumed as cola type beverages borders on the dose known to produce central nervous system stimulation in animals and man. Whether such stimulation constitutes an adverse effect or whether a potential hazard may exist for the segment of the population, particularly children, that is exposed chronically to stimulating doses of caffeine, cannot be answered on the basis of the evidence now available. Despite the long history of use and absence of definitive evidence of toxicity in mammalian in vivo test systems, there is a possibility that behavioral effects in children from the consumption of caffeine from infancy through adolescence exist, even though these potential effects are neither adequately documents nor are their consequences clear. The Select Committe is well aware that caffeine in cola-type beverages is not the only dietary source of this substance. However, based on the evidence available in May 1978, the Committee believes it is not appropriate to continue to consider caffeine as a generally recognized as safe substance for addition to cola-type beverages.

 

[Surf Monkey]

No surprise. Caffeine should be regulated just like any other drug. Regulation isn't necessarily a bad thing. It only becomes bad when it's used as an excuse to raise additional taxes and/or press a broader social issue.

 

[denec]

I'm not surprised denec tried to defend this. As I said before in the thread, he's not here to help support PVs. He's here to press his 'winger agenda. Anyone who would seriously argue that Obama is more involved with the Saudis either doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about or is being willfully untruthful. The Bush family and the Saudi royal family have been closely intertwined for years. Obama has no such connections. The fact that he bowed means nothing.

At this point, my advice to everyone is to ignore denec. Don't feed the troll. He's only here to smear and insult, not to be helpful in any meaningful way.

I did not say he is more involved per se just that he is a muslim because he comes from that background and that is their ettiquette is to bow

just like he accidentally slipped that he was a muslim during a tv interview last year before the elections

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

Acutally, the premise of the bill is good. Albeit it far from perfect legislation, it has minimal 'tooth' to it and will likely be massaged and changed over the years to fix what is broken. The FDA has a three-year window to get the new division up and running and to come up with an extensive list of things they want to do. Since politics is about gaining and maintaining votes, who in their right mind would not vote for it? Save the kiddies, yea. Consitutents love that stuff.

Yes, I've noticed that some have this idea that politicians have more moral courage than desire to keep their jobs. Yeah, that'll be the day!

 

[denec]

Agreed. If that's what it takes to get the feds off our backs, then I support it. Cut to the chase. It's obviously only about money.

if they start doing that i may as well go back to cigs...only reason I quit in the first place

but of course the socialist has no problem with taxes

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

LOL Bush even bowed, and this photo was discovered by a right wing blog that the wingnuts attacked for pointing it out:

Little Green Footballs - Bush Bowed Too

And for the partisan hackery when discussing this bill, people need to look at the roll calls. The bill passed both chambers of Congress with strong bi-partisan support (a rather rare occurrence in our political climate of the past several years). As matter of fact that support was so high that Obama had no choice but to either sign it or see a veto overturned.

Its not an issue of Democrat versus Republican or Liberal versus Conservative, but rather an issue of Smokers versus non-Smokers, with smokers being the underdogs in the fight considering the lobbying power behind groups like the AMA and AHA, who support any sort of anti-smoking legislation.

NO, say it isn't so! The rightwing would never do anything that respected another culture! My image is ruined...

 

[denec]

No surprise. Caffeine should be regulated just like any other drug. Regulation isn't necessarily a bad thing. It only becomes bad when it's used as an excuse to raise additional taxes and/or press a broader social issue.

yeah lets regulate everything why not...may as well start to regulate fast food too..while you at it..

and regulate how many times you are allowed on the internet using facebook since that is fast becomeing the next addiction

lets have the govt controlling all of ours lives

nazi germany here we come....

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

ex·trem·ist (k-strmst) KEY

NOUN:

One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

 

[denec]

ex·trem·ist (k-strmst) KEY

NOUN:

One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

it is a slipper slope once you start with the govt they take as much as they can

it did not happen overnight in germany

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

it is a slipper slope once you start with the govt they take as much as they can

it did not happen overnight in germany

I understand what you're saying here, but this conflicts with your understanding that the republicans are the only ones that stand up for what they believe. You said the govt here, and I agree with that. I don't agree with only one side claiming to have superior morals and acting on them. Politics are a game with many players.

Of course you have every right to your opinions, as we all do. And your opinions actually make me understand that I need to stay a little more towards the middle gound myself although reading some of your posts makes me flinch, it's good to be reminded of the harms of both extremes.

 

[fresca]

it is a slipper slope once you start with the govt they take as much as they can

it did not happen overnight in germany

More importantly, let's not forget what happened to Etruria after the Roman assimilation, followed by the civil wars between the cities. As everyone knows, Sulla was victorious over Marius... remember how he treated the former Etruria regions after that?

All I'm saying is: Seen any Etruscans around lately?

Well, there ya are.

 

[gotthelife4u]

Yeah, because no other president has ever done that.

What was bush doing there, is he stuck. I don't see Cheney near him to tell him what to do.

 

[gotthelife4u]

The United Socialist States of America.

Where do I get my social medicine at.

 

[socaljay]

I have just read through 26 pages because I am interested in the topic (I'm a government teacher; not that it qualifies me on the topic or anything of the sort). I am interested in ideas for a solution. However our device and juice has not officially been banned that I know of. So I guess we would be looking for more of a "prevention" of that happening. I agree with a previous poster who stated that most people have no clue about PVs or their benefits. A step in the right direction would be to simply get the word out. Perception is a valuable ally. If the government or an interest group get the word out, it will most likely carry a negative connotation. If we, as users of the product, get the word out, the perception could be more positive. Signing a petition is not a bad thing, but our actions can not stop there. We need to have our voice be heard; this can be in our circle of influence (family, friends, workplace, etc) or on a grander scale. But in any case, proactivity and prevention are key.

 

[redjazzy1]

i'm helping organize a vape-in on july 11... some other states are too... i'm thinking if it goes well, we SHOULD do a national one later this year... in the fall maybe for plenty of planning time... but you could do the same in your state/communities... it's not hard to do... just find a place and time and vape and educate!

 

[Kent C]

LOL Bush even bowed,

Then Obama bowed twice. He got the same type of bling during his last trip:

Barack Obama and the king's bling - Telegraph

 

[Surf Monkey]

Which means basically nothing. World leaders follow protocol when they meet with other world leaders. Nothing new there. Any president would do the same thing.

But there's a major substantive difference between Obama and Bush's relationship with the Saudis. The Bush family has very close ties with the House of Saud. The two families have been doing business with each other for decades. Obama on the other hand has had no familial or business ties with the Saudis whatsoever. So, the criticism that "Obama is kissing terrorists' asses when he bows to the Saudi king" is so much hot air. It's the Bush's who have been playing ball with this terrorist sponsoring state for as long as most of us can remember. That's not a smear against W. or his father, it's just a statement of fact. The Bush's have strong ties to the Saudis, both personally and professionally. Saudi Arabia is the home to most of the 9/11 terrorists and has been a state sponsor of terrorism through their publicly funded Madrasas and by other forms of direct funding to radical groups. Draw your own conclusions from that.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I agree with a previous poster who stated that most people have no clue about PVs or their benefits. A step in the right direction would be to simply get the word out. Perception is a valuable ally.

That's something I've been saying for a long time. Knowledge is power and right now the vast majority of Americans don't even know that PVs exist. The government and anti-smoking groups have the public stage at their disposal. They're doing everything they can to be the people making the first impression when it comes to PVs, and they're pulling out all the propaganda stops. They're saying that PVs are marketed to children, that the flavored liquid is intended to hook in young people, that the PV is not proven to be safer than smoking and other patently erroneous rhetoric. By far and away the most powerful tool at our disposal right now is education. The more WE are the first contact people have with PVs the better chance we have of effecting the public perception of the devices. But it has to happen now. The government isn't sitting on its hands. Anti-smoking groups aren't sitting on their hands. They're working actively to smear the reputation of PVs and convince the public that they represent a health danger. We need to counter that with as much volume as we can muster IMO.

 

[Kent C]

Which means basically nothing.

Just showing that GWB didn't bow, as BHO didn't bow the second time, although BHO did the first time. Pointing out the facts, without the Daily Kos talking points.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Just showing that GWB didn't bow, as BHO didn't bow the second time, although BHO did the first time. Pointing out the facts, without the Daily Kos talking points.

Nice attempt at a smear with the Daily Kos comment. It's completely irrelevant and a flat out mischaracterization, but it's a nice try none the less.

If you want to get tied up in criticisms of surface issues like protocol, then you're welcome to do that. But as long as you ignore the deeper issues this discussion isn't going to progress much beyond the nominal partisan rhetorical attacks.