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There is no rational explanation to what he has done. None at all.
I don't understand why I see anyone trying to rationalize his actions.
By this exact same logic police can make me pour out any liquid, labeled or unlabeled? On what grounds? Shouldn't they arrest me and test liquid? Shouldn't they find anything in my blood or actions to have any grounds for arresting me?
The only logic behind his actions was in style of "Black and running - thief", sorry for analogy.
This not some heavy prescription drug that I'm required to carry anything proving I'm allowed to use it. And I'm certainly no obliged to carry around anything to prove this is not "potential drug paraphenalia" otherwise I would need to carry on back small lab to prove that any liquid on me is what it is.
And no, there's is no way this should go unnoticed. Labels on bottles do not magically turn any liquid to what's written on label.
Police are here to serve and protect not ..... and bully.
Really hoping OP will not just let go.
I don't understand why I see anyone trying to rationalize his actions.
By this exact same logic police can make me pour out any liquid, labeled or unlabeled? On what grounds? Shouldn't they arrest me and test liquid? Shouldn't they find anything in my blood or actions to have any grounds for arresting me?
The only logic behind his actions was in style of "Black and running - thief", sorry for analogy.
This not some heavy prescription drug that I'm required to carry anything proving I'm allowed to use it. And I'm certainly no obliged to carry around anything to prove this is not "potential drug paraphenalia" otherwise I would need to carry on back small lab to prove that any liquid on me is what it is.
And no, there's is no way this should go unnoticed. Labels on bottles do not magically turn any liquid to what's written on label.
Police are here to serve and protect not ..... and bully.
Really hoping OP will not just let go.
You should have gotten a badge number and made a citizens complaint. There was no reason to make you pour out you juse. I would have ended up in the back of the car also, and then I would have sued them for false accusations and false arrest. Tell them to get a qualified person to test the liquid that they think is drugs. if they would have smelled the bottle they would know it is not drugs. Typical cop thinking they are above us all.
I'm new at this also but have a lil different story.
Not long after I had gotten my CWP (concealed weapons permit) went through a licenses check on way home one night. When I showed cop my license and permit. He ask if I had a gun with me. I said of course there's one in the console and one in the glove box. He then ask me if they were loaded. Which I replied yes they are. He then blows up telling me to pull over to the side and get out of the car. Which I did. He then goes in my truck without asking. Takes my guns out ranting and raving the whole time. I tell him to be careful there are bullets in the chambers. This really sets him off. now he's telling me I cain't have loaded guns ect at anytime in vehicle. Proceeds to unload them throwing bullets in floor guns on top of car. Whole time just giving me down the road about what I can and cain't do. Searches the rest of my car. Finds more ammo stored in back sets him off again. then tells me he's letting me off with a warning. I stopped him there and told him I wanted that in writing. He tells me tough S*** I ask him to call the cheif of police. He says he's not bothering him at night. At that point I grabbed my cell and started dialin ask him the # Told me I was wastin his time had to go through 911 to get police dept. Talked to police chief on duty. He came out looked things over told cop he was in the wrong apologized to me. Told the cop to follow him back to the dept. All this took about 2 hours. Wish I could've been a fly on the wall when they met back at the police dept.
Bottom line when you know your right stand your ground. May hold you up for a while and cost you some time. But it's worth it
Not long after I had gotten my CWP (concealed weapons permit) went through a licenses check on way home one night. When I showed cop my license and permit. He ask if I had a gun with me. I said of course there's one in the console and one in the glove box. He then ask me if they were loaded. Which I replied yes they are. He then blows up telling me to pull over to the side and get out of the car. Which I did. He then goes in my truck without asking. Takes my guns out ranting and raving the whole time. I tell him to be careful there are bullets in the chambers. This really sets him off. now he's telling me I cain't have loaded guns ect at anytime in vehicle. Proceeds to unload them throwing bullets in floor guns on top of car. Whole time just giving me down the road about what I can and cain't do. Searches the rest of my car. Finds more ammo stored in back sets him off again. then tells me he's letting me off with a warning. I stopped him there and told him I wanted that in writing. He tells me tough S*** I ask him to call the cheif of police. He says he's not bothering him at night. At that point I grabbed my cell and started dialin ask him the # Told me I was wastin his time had to go through 911 to get police dept. Talked to police chief on duty. He came out looked things over told cop he was in the wrong apologized to me. Told the cop to follow him back to the dept. All this took about 2 hours. Wish I could've been a fly on the wall when they met back at the police dept.
Bottom line when you know your right stand your ground. May hold you up for a while and cost you some time. But it's worth it
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Officer... Are you under the influence tonight as well ... Seems like your eye's are a little glazed.. One to many donuts !!
Standing up for your rights is important and is part of the educational program for those that would abuse your rights. It is not the easy path to do so though. It is up to each of us how important our rights are and what value we place on them. I am alright with spending a couple of hours and honestly, far more, to stand my ground and see things through. Remaining calm and cool are very important. Tossing threats, cursing, and mockery will not help. These things become very important when considered for later redress.
If you find yourself under arrest you take your right to silence and request your right to a lawyer. In the case of e-cigs, if they have used this as an excuse to arrest you they will proceed to test it with out your permission anyway. Giving them any permission at all for anything is not helpful but degrades your rights. Remember that they will not phrase the request as if they are asking your permission most of the time.
It is also very likely that an arrest on the grounds of the e-cig and/or juice will be halted once it reaches the station as it is far more likely that someone there is knowledgeable in what the law is and that this is a mistake.
If you find yourself under arrest you take your right to silence and request your right to a lawyer. In the case of e-cigs, if they have used this as an excuse to arrest you they will proceed to test it with out your permission anyway. Giving them any permission at all for anything is not helpful but degrades your rights. Remember that they will not phrase the request as if they are asking your permission most of the time.
It is also very likely that an arrest on the grounds of the e-cig and/or juice will be halted once it reaches the station as it is far more likely that someone there is knowledgeable in what the law is and that this is a mistake.
This is good going. If it was me and I was 100 percent sure I was right I still wouldn't have the guts to do that but would sure wish I did..
So sorry you were harrassed!! I would definitely be in touch with someone, and soon! I live in Mousetown as well and just last week posted a thread that goes hand-in-hand with what you experienced. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/358769-police-officers-need-educated-vaping.html Don't sweat about it and keep vaping.
I live in a place where they train the deputies. We have them trawling all over the place. EVERY time I see a cop car I make sure to have my PV to my lips with vapor soon to follow. I am begging them to pull me over so I can educate them. None of them ever do 
If they are going to "grow up" to be the kind of cop that you met, I want to meet them early and get them off the job. Darn it, they NEVER pull me over.
If they are going to "grow up" to be the kind of cop that you met, I want to meet them early and get them off the job. Darn it, they NEVER pull me over.
I believe that if you let this go you just give the officer permission to continue bullying citizens! people let the persecution of smokers go. and look what happened. people should have stood up for everyone's rights, including smokers...but they didn't and now smokers are no better than criminals
now "they" will go after "you" - NYC size of coke ban, guns, etc, etc, etc
I hope the OP does do something about this.
The police officers brazen disregard for your rights, as well as his blatant abuse of power should not go unpunished.
Take note of all the things he did wrong while they are fresh in your mind.
As others said, you should contact a lawyer and the police department he is from.
Please do this.
He is bound to pull over another vaper and do the same thing. Please do this, for their sake.
The police officers brazen disregard for your rights, as well as his blatant abuse of power should not go unpunished.
Take note of all the things he did wrong while they are fresh in your mind.
As others said, you should contact a lawyer and the police department he is from.
Please do this.
He is bound to pull over another vaper and do the same thing. Please do this, for their sake.
Wow, what ridiculousness! He even asked you to use it before dumping it out!! That's insane! I'd have told him to watch me use it for 30 minutes and notice how my judgement, speech, movement, coordination, etc. doesn't change. While medication must be labelled if prescribed by a doctor, nicotine is not a prescription. Hand sanitizer, toothpaste, and deodorant are all drugs that don't need a prescription... is it illegal if they're not labeled within your home? Tomatoes contain nicotine, do they now need a surgeon general warning? Do coffee cups need "contains caffeine" printed on them?
Potential drug paraphernalia? Are matches, lighters, rolling papers, fruit, empty soda cans, knives, spoons, stovetops, lightbulbs, aluminum foil, drain cleaner, and sandwich bags arrestable drug paraphernalia? Even pipes made for non-mentionables are legal to own and use with pipe tobacco, again, it's the OTHER stuff and the resins/residues it leaves behind thats illegal.
As for other people using things that look like e-cigs for other things... well, around my location, actual Egos are used - not knockoffs or look-alikes, but actual branded Egos are sold in 'dispensaries' with pre-filled clearomizers. I work in entertainment and sometimes I see people in the crowd with different devices, it's my job to determine what it is and act appropriately - something this cop did NOT do. You can easily tell by smelling the liquid (and often by how the people are acting (hiding, passing it around, looking for security, how many times they use it, etc.), but not always). There's also some talk here about those other users encroaching on e-cig territory, but they had the idea long before "e-cigs" were invented. It really is the other way around, sorry to burst your bubble... but that's why I can't blame the cop for checking it out - he had more than enough reason to (in my opinion - and I expect to be questioned somewhere at some point as well, especially with my bottom feeder mod). The thing is, he failed HORRIBLY at determining what the substance was and had a list of actions that were all of poor judgement.
I'm sorry you went through this. This sort of event is likely to have a good person shaken up for a while, but trust us, it wasn't you, it was the cop. I'd let it slide (and probably give a tip of my hat) if he only questioned you and inspected the device, but he made you toss your juice and submit to field testing! That's completely uncalled for and I'd raise hell. Maybe it's possible to get your juice replaced (although I doubt it - and I also wouldn't pay to fight the issue), but at least your voice around the cop shop should raise some awareness.
I used to have tons of faith in and respect for our men in blue, until the one time I got put through that twisted wringer and saw for myself how corrupt and unjust our system really is. To me, they're like bums. Sure, some want money for food, but others want booze or drugs or have regular jobs and are just out there to scam - and now I just turn my shoulder to all of them (I have my nice days once in a while...). There are some good cops out there as well, but there are so many bad ones roaming around that I just don't care to decide who's who, and they ALL get lumped into the TRASH category. The only good cops I've met were friends... and ain't that corruption at its finest!
Potential drug paraphernalia? Are matches, lighters, rolling papers, fruit, empty soda cans, knives, spoons, stovetops, lightbulbs, aluminum foil, drain cleaner, and sandwich bags arrestable drug paraphernalia? Even pipes made for non-mentionables are legal to own and use with pipe tobacco, again, it's the OTHER stuff and the resins/residues it leaves behind thats illegal.
As for other people using things that look like e-cigs for other things... well, around my location, actual Egos are used - not knockoffs or look-alikes, but actual branded Egos are sold in 'dispensaries' with pre-filled clearomizers. I work in entertainment and sometimes I see people in the crowd with different devices, it's my job to determine what it is and act appropriately - something this cop did NOT do. You can easily tell by smelling the liquid (and often by how the people are acting (hiding, passing it around, looking for security, how many times they use it, etc.), but not always). There's also some talk here about those other users encroaching on e-cig territory, but they had the idea long before "e-cigs" were invented. It really is the other way around, sorry to burst your bubble... but that's why I can't blame the cop for checking it out - he had more than enough reason to (in my opinion - and I expect to be questioned somewhere at some point as well, especially with my bottom feeder mod). The thing is, he failed HORRIBLY at determining what the substance was and had a list of actions that were all of poor judgement.
I'm sorry you went through this. This sort of event is likely to have a good person shaken up for a while, but trust us, it wasn't you, it was the cop. I'd let it slide (and probably give a tip of my hat) if he only questioned you and inspected the device, but he made you toss your juice and submit to field testing! That's completely uncalled for and I'd raise hell. Maybe it's possible to get your juice replaced (although I doubt it - and I also wouldn't pay to fight the issue), but at least your voice around the cop shop should raise some awareness.
I used to have tons of faith in and respect for our men in blue, until the one time I got put through that twisted wringer and saw for myself how corrupt and unjust our system really is. To me, they're like bums. Sure, some want money for food, but others want booze or drugs or have regular jobs and are just out there to scam - and now I just turn my shoulder to all of them (I have my nice days once in a while...). There are some good cops out there as well, but there are so many bad ones roaming around that I just don't care to decide who's who, and they ALL get lumped into the TRASH category. The only good cops I've met were friends... and ain't that corruption at its finest!
Hey everybody. I went to the PD this morning! Here's what happened...
Okay, so I spoke to one Officer Johnson about what had happened yesterday. I brought my kit with me, along with a printed copy of that poster that shows the health effects of smoking compared to vaping. I also brought my smartphone with some vendors' websites loaded up, and this forum, and a business card for the only shop in town I've found thus far that sells more than disposable e-cigs. I explained what I had been doing, and how the officer had treated me, and how much it had upset me. This whole time, I was very sweet and polite. Officer Johnson was polite as well. He told me that there currently wasn't a policy for e-cigs that don't look like e-cigs, and that he wasn't aware such a thing existed. "Normal" e-cigs are treated exactly the same as tobacco cigs. I educated him as much as I could, and told him that there clearly NEEDS to be a policy about it. Things like what happened to me shouldn't happen to innocent citizens. He agreed, and apologized, and said he would bring it up with his superiors to work on getting something in writing. He took the materials I had offered, and I prayed he wasn't just being nice to get rid of me.
The only thing that ...... me off was that when I asked him what steps he thought I should take to ensure I didn't run into this trouble again (should I carry the labeled bottle with me, should I carry business cards, what?) he told me that, "Honestly, if want to quit smoking, should just try some Nicorette and leave this controversy alone."
I told him that I wasn't trying to "quit smoking" so much as I was trying to "replace smoking." For people like me, I explained, it's not just the nicotine that's a factor. It's the hand-to-mouth thing, and the warm inhale, and the mental break that comes with stepping out for a smoke. I'm under a lot of stress as a performer and a student, and I don't really have the fortitude to just "quit." I've tried patches and lozenges and gums in the past, and I've always gone right back to the pipe as soon as life gets hairy. Vaping is a way to get off of the pipe for good, but still keep the behavioral aspects of the habit that are so much more important to my ability to cope with stress. It's much, much healthier for me and everone around me, and totally legal. I told him all this with as gentle a smile as I could muster, even though I sortof wanted to bludgeon him to death.
He didn't give me the officer's name. I told him that a youngish (maybe 25-30?) hispanic officer in an unmarked black SUV had pulled me over as I was leaving Walmart Neighborhood Market, and that I had been so upset I forgot to get the officer's name. Officer Johnson said he would "look into" who had been in that area at the time, and see if he could find out who had pulled me over. He asked me why I had been pulled over in the first place, and I had to admit I didn't know. The officer in question pulled up next to me at the traffic light, rolled down his window, flashed his badge, and yelled at me to pull over, which I did. Then, the situation I described in the first post happened.
When I was pulled over, I was driving an enormous and ancient Ford F250 (circa '81). I was dressed in jeans, a t-shirt, and a hooded sweatshirt with my college's logo on it. I'm young, white, and VERY babyfaced (as in, I routinely get carded to see R movies, and have been pulled over before for looking like a runaway that's too young to have a driver's license), especially when I'm not wearing makeup, like last night. I didn't tell the PD this, but I'm telling you guys so that you can understand the situation a little better. It also helps to know that I live...Well...There's no polite way to put this, so I'll just say it: I live in the barrio. When I went to the Walmart, I'm pretty sure was literally the only white person in there. Not to be racist, but I think that's part of why the cop pulled me over. He saw a little white girl and figured I wasn't from the area, and would therefore be a good target to bully. Not to mention that the poor little white girl is probably going to run back to Baldwin Park and cry rather than actually do anything about his ***hattery. *grumblegrumble*
So yeah...That's the update. I'm in contact with the CASAA currently, and hoping that maybe they can help me figure out where to go from here.
Thank you guys again for all your support. Reading this thread gave me the guts to vape all the way down to the PD this morning, and go in with confidence and a smile. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU all for backing me up. I am so glad I found this place. If I hadn't, I don't know if I might have just let the incident go, or if I'd have been too scared to keep vaping, or what I would have done. Thank you all.
Okay, so I spoke to one Officer Johnson about what had happened yesterday. I brought my kit with me, along with a printed copy of that poster that shows the health effects of smoking compared to vaping. I also brought my smartphone with some vendors' websites loaded up, and this forum, and a business card for the only shop in town I've found thus far that sells more than disposable e-cigs. I explained what I had been doing, and how the officer had treated me, and how much it had upset me. This whole time, I was very sweet and polite. Officer Johnson was polite as well. He told me that there currently wasn't a policy for e-cigs that don't look like e-cigs, and that he wasn't aware such a thing existed. "Normal" e-cigs are treated exactly the same as tobacco cigs. I educated him as much as I could, and told him that there clearly NEEDS to be a policy about it. Things like what happened to me shouldn't happen to innocent citizens. He agreed, and apologized, and said he would bring it up with his superiors to work on getting something in writing. He took the materials I had offered, and I prayed he wasn't just being nice to get rid of me.
The only thing that ...... me off was that when I asked him what steps he thought I should take to ensure I didn't run into this trouble again (should I carry the labeled bottle with me, should I carry business cards, what?) he told me that, "Honestly, if want to quit smoking, should just try some Nicorette and leave this controversy alone."
I told him that I wasn't trying to "quit smoking" so much as I was trying to "replace smoking." For people like me, I explained, it's not just the nicotine that's a factor. It's the hand-to-mouth thing, and the warm inhale, and the mental break that comes with stepping out for a smoke. I'm under a lot of stress as a performer and a student, and I don't really have the fortitude to just "quit." I've tried patches and lozenges and gums in the past, and I've always gone right back to the pipe as soon as life gets hairy. Vaping is a way to get off of the pipe for good, but still keep the behavioral aspects of the habit that are so much more important to my ability to cope with stress. It's much, much healthier for me and everone around me, and totally legal. I told him all this with as gentle a smile as I could muster, even though I sortof wanted to bludgeon him to death.
He didn't give me the officer's name. I told him that a youngish (maybe 25-30?) hispanic officer in an unmarked black SUV had pulled me over as I was leaving Walmart Neighborhood Market, and that I had been so upset I forgot to get the officer's name. Officer Johnson said he would "look into" who had been in that area at the time, and see if he could find out who had pulled me over. He asked me why I had been pulled over in the first place, and I had to admit I didn't know. The officer in question pulled up next to me at the traffic light, rolled down his window, flashed his badge, and yelled at me to pull over, which I did. Then, the situation I described in the first post happened.
When I was pulled over, I was driving an enormous and ancient Ford F250 (circa '81). I was dressed in jeans, a t-shirt, and a hooded sweatshirt with my college's logo on it. I'm young, white, and VERY babyfaced (as in, I routinely get carded to see R movies, and have been pulled over before for looking like a runaway that's too young to have a driver's license), especially when I'm not wearing makeup, like last night. I didn't tell the PD this, but I'm telling you guys so that you can understand the situation a little better. It also helps to know that I live...Well...There's no polite way to put this, so I'll just say it: I live in the barrio. When I went to the Walmart, I'm pretty sure was literally the only white person in there. Not to be racist, but I think that's part of why the cop pulled me over. He saw a little white girl and figured I wasn't from the area, and would therefore be a good target to bully. Not to mention that the poor little white girl is probably going to run back to Baldwin Park and cry rather than actually do anything about his ***hattery. *grumblegrumble*
So yeah...That's the update. I'm in contact with the CASAA currently, and hoping that maybe they can help me figure out where to go from here.
Thank you guys again for all your support. Reading this thread gave me the guts to vape all the way down to the PD this morning, and go in with confidence and a smile. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU all for backing me up. I am so glad I found this place. If I hadn't, I don't know if I might have just let the incident go, or if I'd have been too scared to keep vaping, or what I would have done. Thank you all.
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