Omfg

[elmattias]

It doesn't matter what the law is if you are being pulled over. A police officer can violate any law he/she wants to. It's just your word against theirs in a court. There is not a judge there witnessing the traffic stop, so an officer doesn't have to follow protocol if they don't want to. It's a brutal fact of life. Say yes officer and no officer, and be sure you know the law. Nothing can save you from a corrupt cop.

this paragraph is crock. dashcams. nuff said.

if a cop is doing you an injustice these days, it's on camera....audio and video, a lawyer will know to supeona (spelling?) that footage, and it will show every ounce of harassment and injustice done.

and the one sentance that burned me up: a police officer is not above the law, they cannot violate "any law they want" as you say...corrupt cops are found out about eventually, corruption comes out...want proof? look up the danzinger bridge incident.

you can say whatever you want, but much like no criminal can outrun the radio/helicopter combo, the officers themselves cannot outrun the videotape. THAT is the brutal fact that we should be focusing on, this guy is lucky it wasn't me, because i'd have him working unarmed security at wal mart for the rest of his life while i'm driving my brand new cadillac...

i've been a victim of police corruption before....i was hit THREE TIMES (by the same car no less) at a legal red light, yet the officer tried to pin the accident on me....i was arrested, brought to court, and my lawyer was there to clear my name (and bring me a nice settlement to get a brand new truck) plus wages lost, personal grievance, and defamation of character was tacked on.....the police can be beaten, you just have to know which battles to pick....this one i would have GLADLY taken.

 

[Wyniverrn]

Doubt that very much. (Most of the people who deliver illegal drugs into the "barrio" as you put it, are white.). I'm sure that police officer has seen a lot, and more than you or I ever want to see.

You make a good point, and I've been living here long enough that I ought to know that by now. I guess when I get pissy, as much as I try to avoid it, I still fall back into my "rich white kid" roots and subtle biggotry. Thanks for that post. It really helped me calm down about the whole thing. I still don't think that cop treated me right, or that his actions were excusable, but you reminded me that he's a real person, just like me, not some faceless monster.

Although...As people have mentioned...I don't really know that he even WAS a cop. He was wearing a uniform and had a radio, but his car was unmarked, I didn't get his badge number or name, and I only saw his badge when he pulled me over. No flashy lights in or on the SUV, and I never heard his radio make any noise.

Oh man...I hope I didn't just run into some armed nutcase...If so, I'm REALLY glad I co-operated with him.

He did have a breathylizer thingy. But you know, I've never seen one before, so I don't even know how to tell if THAT was real! Oh my lord, that's scary!

What are you supposed to do in this instance? The PD isn't really near where he pulled me over, and I'm not sure where the closest fire station or something is. Should I have called 911 and asked them? Isn't it illegal to use 911 when it's not an emergency? Sorry, I'm not trying to sound stupid...I guess I'm just really uninformed. I never realized it before. Yikes.

 

[Kable]

You make a good point, and I've been living here long enough that I ought to know that by now. I guess when I get pissy, as much as I try to avoid it, I still fall back into my "rich white kid" roots and subtle biggotry. Thanks for that post. It really helped me calm down about the whole thing. I still don't think that cop treated me right, or that his actions were excusable, but you reminded me that he's a real person, just like me, not some faceless monster.

Although...As people have mentioned...I don't really know that he even WAS a cop. He was wearing a uniform and had a radio, but his car was unmarked, I didn't get his badge number or name, and I only saw his badge when he pulled me over. No flashy lights in or on the SUV, and I never heard his radio make any noise.

Oh man...I hope I didn't just run into some armed nutcase...If so, I'm REALLY glad I co-operated with him.

He did have a breathylizer thingy. But you know, I've never seen one before, so I don't even know how to tell if THAT was real! Oh my lord, that's scary!

What are you supposed to do in this instance? The PD isn't really near where he pulled me over, and I'm not sure where the closest fire station or something is. Should I have called 911 and asked them? Isn't it illegal to use 911 when it's not an emergency? Sorry, I'm not trying to sound stupid...I guess I'm just really uninformed. I never realized it before. Yikes.

I'm sure he was a cop. If he was pretending, I'm sure he wouldn't have gotten all dressed up just to harass people about e cigs. You never know, though. Maybe he just wanted a power trip.

 

[Wyniverrn]

I'm sure he was a cop. If he was pretending, I'm sure he wouldn't have gotten all dressed up just to harass people about e cigs. You never know, though. Maybe he just wanted a power trip.

I don't know if I hope he WAS a cop, so there's not some weird maniac on the loose; or if I hope he was NOT a cop, just because he was such a b@$tard.

In any case, I'm vapin' like there ain't no tomorrow right now. I've only had one bowl of pipe tobacco today, which is a freaking miracle, as far as I'm concerned. I love my PV, and I'm not gonna let some rear-end in a top hat kill my enjoyment of my healthier habit.

 

[StereoDreamer]

CASAA has reprintable business cards as well as a pamphlet you can print.

Thanks for those links--these are INVALUABLE for people like me who "open vape"--both for dealing with hostile LEOs and for handing out to curious citizens...

 

[StereoDreamer]

this paragraph is crock. dashcams. nuff said.

if a cop is doing you an injustice these days, it's on camera....audio and video, a lawyer will know to supeona (spelling?) that footage, and it will show every ounce of harassment and injustice done.

Except when their cameras are mysteriously "not activated", or their recorders somehow just "happened to be malfunctioning" at EXACTLY the same time they violate your rights. Which happens more often than to be mere coincidence.

I can provide all kinds of links to official, documentable news stories on this very issue...

and the one sentance that burned me up: a police officer is not above the law, they cannot violate "any law they want" as you say...corrupt cops are found out about eventually, corruption comes out...want proof? look up the danzinger bridge incident.

I never said they were "above the law", just that some of them don't CARE about the law, or think that they ARE the law.

Some departments are so rife with corruption that even the good cops cover for the bad ones, out of fear. Ask Frank Serpico.

What I was meaning to illustrate was that bad cops WILL continue to get away with their illegal, abusive behavior unless people report them, establish a paper trail of their misconduct, and eventually move against them in the courts, officially.

Bad cops never turn themselves in--they have to get CAUGHT, and tried, and convicted. And starting a paper trail is a KEY element in the "justice continuum".


The LEO in the OP sounds like a bad apple that his department needs to toss out of the barrel before he ruins the lot, and reporting him is a good place to start...

 

[elmattias]

I never said they were "above the law"

that wasn't you i was quoting either the dashcams being "off" is kind of a touchy subject, some departments use cameras that cannot be turned off and lead to something along the lines of a "black box", others have a user activated switch, which i don't agree with....as those cameras protect the officers as well if something goes down.

 

[mojon]

Fight for your rights. Don't be pushed. You pay his salary. He is probably a rookie abusing his power. Get badge number and go straight to the sargent or leutenant in charge and file a complaint immediately. Tell them you are doing this so you have it documented for your lawyer and get a paper copy of the complaint. Go home and laugh your ... off as they call you apologizing for a misunderstanding because their officers were not aware of the new technology on the streets Blah, Blah Blah.
Peace
Mojon

 

[redbucket]

Fight for your rights. Don't be pushed. You pay his salary. He is probably a rookie abusing his power. Get badge number and go straight to the sargent or leutenant in charge and file a complaint immediately. Tell them you are doing this so you have it documented for your lawyer and get a paper copy of the complaint. Go home and laugh your ... off as they call you apologizing for a misunderstanding because their officers were not aware of the new technology on the streets Blah, Blah Blah.
Peace
Mojon

I really think she handled this perfectly. She cried, she made it known she wanted to be a good person and acted (or even was) ashamed of her behavior even if it wasn't wrong, and she didn't say or do anything that could be communicated as suspicious or disorderly. When confronted with a jackass with a gun (be it a criminal or a law enforcement officer) this is really all you can do. In the case of a law enforcement officer, if you are a lawyer, another licensed professional in the law enforcement/legal profession, or are fantastically rich, you can try pulling rank and it will probably work. Otherwise, you make sure the person who wants to be seen as in charge and powerful feels in charge and powerful, demonstrate your own humanity and show you respect their status, and if you are lucky you escape without the jackass doing permanent damage to you.

 

[lisancentraltx]

Okay, I have 2 new eGic kits boxed with a sample of each juice I have bought, and all of my eGos in their carrying case. I will stop by my local PD and ask them to tell me if I am safe to use these without threat of arrest. I'll also point out that I would like something in writing or a URL to refer to that I can print out to send with these two new kits I have bought as Christmas presents. I'll stop by after 3PM right after work, suit and briefcase in tow from work. I'll report back what I am told. We are a smaller college town with the largest cities in Texas an hour away, so we do have some issues with drugs.

According to my local PD:

#1 eCigarettes in their many forms are not illegal. Now, if you are seen huffing from some hot little mod and plumes are going heavy and strong, someone should approach and check things out. If you present an appearance that causes alarm, you do not seem to be functioning at full capacity, things may go beyond 'checking things out'.

He discussed different scenarios that officers are trained to watch for, smoking with the windows up, behaviors, your demeanor, reaction time.

#2 When I asked if there would be cause for someone to dump the e-liquid from a bottle, he thought not. When I asked about an officer telling someone to dump the contents, he preferred not to discuss this, but did say if it happened in our community, I should report it.

#3 All in all, he said that he had seen the cigalikes and didn't even remove them from the box. He handled my larger setup eGos [650 - 1100 mAh and asked about the cartos/clearos I have, I was only able to show him a black and white picture of a mod, but he was quick to react and mention someone approaching and checking things out if anything seemed 'off'.

I gave him some CASAA printouts from their site and that was that. I did notice that I am driving with my windows up when I vape - I never did this when I smoked analogs.

Link to what I gave him: PV, Ecigarettes, & Nicotrol

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11TXvmo6Lp4kcu3VofMSMKZNCQpgJy7pIfOJ97faVDqI/edit

 

[Wyniverrn]

He discussed different scenarios that officers are trained to watch for, smoking with the windows up,

You know, I don't even remember if my windows were up or down. I never smoked my pipe in the car, so I'm really not sure what my "habit" would be. I've been taking a puff or two at stoplights with my Riva-T. I wonder if that's what upset the dude in the first place...

I can't BELIEVE I don't remember! What a weird thing to forget.

Great post, thanks for getting that info.


EDIT'D for bbcode fail
EDIT'D AGAIN for continuing bbcode fail *crosses fingers this time*

 

[lisancentraltx]

To be honest, I am an older woman and I approached the entire thing as someone who wanted clarification and a commitment from him that I would be safe from arrest when using any of these products. I'd like to go to our local University PD to ask them since we are set to become a smokeless campus. I'd like to know if PVs will be considered 'smokeless' and usable or not. There is one lady sergeant in charge overnight on my typical shift, and I want to catch her and ask... once I feel her out, she can pass it on to anyone in the department.

I am not above using my age, my health status, & my nasty 25 year cigarette habit concerns as a way to get others to understand my plight and empathize in order to make a decision that allows me to meet my goals.

 

[lisancentraltx]

good for you! I've been wondering if i can vape where it says no smoking outside...

This is my question as well... it is not actually smoke in the sense that cigarettes BURN TOBACCO and create smoke. We create a VAPOR in much the same way that we do when we breathe in colder weather. My concern is there is a scent from our vapor, my co-workers noticed it and asked me to 'vape on them' >.< So, this could be considered an issue.

 

[cactus71]

To be honest, I am an older woman and I approached the entire thing as someone who wanted clarification and a commitment from him that I would be safe from arrest when using any of these products. I'd like to go to our local University PD to ask them since we are set to become a smokeless campus. I'd like to know if PVs will be considered 'smokeless' and usable or not. There is one lady sergeant in charge overnight on my typical shift, and I want to catch her and ask... once I feel her out, she can pass it on to anyone in the department.

I am not above using my age, my health status, & my nasty 25 year cigarette habit concerns as a way to get others to understand my plight and empathize in order to make a decision that allows me to meet my goals.

What are your goals? I only ask because that statement was prefaced with "I am not above using my age, my health status, & my nasty 25 year cigarette habit concerns". I disagree with "using" any special consideration in any aspect of life of 'capable' persons... even if it's coercion in an effort to allow PVs which, I agree should be allowed. Just trying to understand where you're coming from...

 

[user808a]

Surprising the cop didn't issue a ticket for littering when you dumped it out.

I try not to talk to cops, except for the phrases "am I free to go" "I decline any search"

Reminds me of a friend who was hanging out by his car and had a closed beer can in his center console.

Cop: Dump out that beer.
Friend: I will not break the law by littering.
Cop: Well then get the beer and throw it away in the trash can.
Friend: I am legally allowed to possess and transport alcohol in a closed container. I am not breaking any laws.
Cop: frustratedly walks off.

 

[lisancentraltx]

What are your goals? I only ask because that statement was prefaced with "I am not above using my age, my health status, & my nasty 25 year cigarette habit concerns". I disagree with "using" any special consideration in any aspect of life of 'capable' persons... even if it's coercion in an effort to allow PVs which, I agree should be allowed. Just trying to understand where you're coming from...

What I meant was I feel more comfortable presenting myself to an officer, asking questions, discussing everything until the officer agrees that PVs are acceptable than say my co-worker opening a conversation with the same officer. I am thinking of appearances, a 20 something with sleepy eyes, relaxed posture, blasé attitude, huffing a mod versus granny in a suit being concerned about being arrested for puffing on an eGo. Reverse discrimination or using every vehicle available to get word out and acceptance?

BTW: my co-worker has a mod, but not a PV type mod... He was extremely uncomfortable when I discussed my eGos and did a show & tell with them at work Later, he laughed about it, but he didn't know what to think when I opened the conversation.

 

[bedhouin]

... scenarios that officers are trained to watch for, smoking with the windows up ...

Interesting. This had never occurred to me.

Thanks for making the effort.

Incidentally, smoking whilst children are present in a vehicle is an offence in Australia. I would imagine that if I was vaping with kids in the car (I wouldn't) a fine would be issued anyway. I guess the training hasn't caught up with the pace of technology.

 

[lisancentraltx]

After thinking about my goals for a bit I have come to two frames of thought:

eCigaretts are used as an AID to quit smoking. They are a nicotine transferal system, controlled and administered by the owner.

OR

eCigaretts are an ALTERNATIVE to smoking tobacco cigarettes and as such, a healthier alternative.

It depends on which 'goal' you have, which reason why you are using a PV, and this may be why there is such differing opinion.

Personally, I have used eCigarettes and quit the analogs before. I intend to do that again. I adjust my nicotine based on my withdrawal symptoms. Do I intend to CONTINUE to used my PV after I am free of nicotine AND analogs? This time around, I think I will continue to use my PV after I no longer need nicotine. I enjoy the flavors and I enjoy the oral aspect of handling my PV.

But I have also read that eCigarettes are not regulated by the FDA as a drug delivery device because they are not marketed as quit-smoking aids. 'Currently, e-cigarettes THAT ARE marketed for therapeutic purposes are regulated by the FDA Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER). The FDA Center for Tobacco Products (CTP) currently regulates

cigarettes,
cigarette tobacco,
roll-your-own tobacco, and
smokeless tobacco

and intends to regulate other nicotine-containing products , including electronic cigarette products that do not make a therapeutic claim, in the future. In September 2010, FDA issued a number of warning letters to electronic cigarette distributors for various violations of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act including “violations of good manufacturing practices, making unsubstantiated drug claims, and using the devices as delivery mechanisms for active pharmaceutical ingredients.” Electronic Cigarettes (e-Cigarettes)

So, I guess the question of WHAT GOALS DO YOU HAVE using a PV is quite a bit more important than ever.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I'm new at this also but have a lil different story.
Not long after I had gotten my CWP (concealed weapons permit) went through a licenses check on way home one night. When I showed cop my license and permit. He ask if I had a gun with me. I said of course there's one in the console and one in the glove box. He then ask me if they were loaded. Which I replied yes they are. He then blows up telling me to pull over to the side and get out of the car. Which I did. He then goes in my truck without asking. Takes my guns out ranting and raving the whole time. I tell him to be careful there are bullets in the chambers. This really sets him off. now he's telling me I cain't have loaded guns ect at anytime in vehicle. Proceeds to unload them throwing bullets in floor guns on top of car. Whole time just giving me down the road about what I can and cain't do. Searches the rest of my car. Finds more ammo stored in back sets him off again. then tells me he's letting me off with a warning. I stopped him there and told him I wanted that in writing. He tells me tough S*** I ask him to call the cheif of police. He says he's not bothering him at night. At that point I grabbed my cell and started dialin ask him the # Told me I was wastin his time had to go through 911 to get police dept. Talked to police chief on duty. He came out looked things over told cop he was in the wrong apologized to me. Told the cop to follow him back to the dept. All this took about 2 hours. Wish I could've been a fly on the wall when they met back at the police dept.
Bottom line when you know your right stand your ground. May hold you up for a while and cost you some time. But it's worth it

Nice work. Always demand a supervisor when you have a cop on tilt. IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO!

 

[EddardinWinter]

Surprising the cop didn't issue a ticket for littering when you dumped it out.

I try not to talk to cops, except for the phrases "am I free to go" "I decline any search"

Reminds me of a friend who was hanging out by his car and had a closed beer can in his center console.

Cop: Dump out that beer.
Friend: I will not break the law by littering.
Cop: Well then get the beer and throw it away in the trash can.
Friend: I am legally allowed to possess and transport alcohol in a closed container. I am not breaking any laws.
Cop: frustratedly walks off.

Very good advice. Keep you answers short. Do not grant permission to search anything. If he has probable cause, he won't ask. If he starts acting emotional (angry, frustrated) and persists, tell him you want his supervisor on site immediately. You can gain very little and lose a great deal by talking with a LEO. You have every right to demand his supervisor come to the scene and handle the matter. If his supervisor refuses (rare) take notes of everything that happens, and report it to internal affairs immediately.