Out of curiosity... (Not for the feint of heart lol)

[eHuman]

I am curious if vaping at the same wattage but differing volt/resistance combos has the same heat/vapor production/TH.
The reason for the curiosity is that if you vape at a higher V/R combo but same P, then the current needed to achieve setpoint decreases. Power is directly proportional to current. Since heat in BTUs is a function of power, not current. Then getting our work done (vaping) for less energy (longer batter run time) is desirable.

So then my real question then is; Does vaping at the same wattage but half the current (due to varied set up) produce a different vape experience?
(If so/If not)
Secondary to that is the thought, our batteries drain rate is based on amperage used not power consumed (if i'm not mistaken), thus the mAh rating on the battery. If this is the case then batteries should last longer vaping at a higher V/R combo at out favorite P setting while achieving the same heat, or work load, Am I making sense? The amperage draw difference between 7w on a 5Ω atty and a 1.25Ω atty is literally 2:1 (or 2.4:1.2 technically).

For those of you who have a VV/PV AND a variety of different resistance attys/cartomisers, and would like to spend a few minutes playing/helping;

The below combos will all net roughly 7w:
3v/1.25Ω = 7.2w
3.3v/1.5Ω = 7.26w
3.5v/1.7Ω = 7.21w
3.8v/2Ω = 7.21w
4.2v/2.5Ω = 7.06w
4.6v/3Ω = 7.05w
4.8v/3.2Ω = 7.2w
6v/5Ω = 7.2w

(I imagine for the test all attys compared need to be the same coil number as dual coils burn cooler at a given Ω rating vs singles.
The wider the resistance spread the more pronounced the results (if any) will be.

Any noticeable heat/vapor production/TH variation at 7w?

If you can use VW for the experiment, it is straight forward, LR atty vs HR atty at same power setting.
Any setting over 7w on 5Ω atty will max out the 6v cutoff.
Any setting under 7w on 1.25 atty will need less than 3v for true reading, I don't know if power setting can utilize less than 3v to achieve set output. I assume not.

Thanks in advance to anyone who is bored enough to sit down any help. The rest of you just keep shaking your head and please refrain from advising that I just find the setting I like and go with it. We all do that right? I don't have my Zmax2 yet and this could help atty selection.

 

[kiwivap]

I don't use LR with my vw. To be honest I don't find any difference in heat/vapor production/TH variation between different ohms at the same watts though, whether its 2.4 ohms or 3.2 ohms for example. What does make a difference is the juice I'm vaping - I adjust for that.

 

[jkoppk]

I have the Zmax V2 and have used several different attys and setups on it.To tell you the truth I don't notice much of a difference at all with different ohm attys I use when the wattage is set the same for all of the.I have used 1.5ohm to 4.5 ohm and they seem to vape the same,but battery life seems longer with the higher ohm attys.

 

[Adam the Aussie]

I've had similar experiences, I'm not saying there isn't a difference, but I don't notice it.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

From all the Techical interweaving here is what I've found to be true with Ohm's law...
Wattage and Voltage can change..
Amperage is the force-push that is required.

Its like this...lets take a bucket...you want to have the same gPh...you make a small hole and a large one...obviously the large one will require less top pressure to get to the gPh your wanting to achive then the small hole, which obviously will require more pressure to get to the end result.

Resistance is the same principal in a sense, the higher the resistance the more push is required to get the same result..chewing up more amps to do so. This drains the batter faster.
In a sense this is how I understand it to work. I know the higher resistance atomizer I use then the faster the battery drains with the same wattage of heat.

Hope this helps.

 

[eHuman]

I have used 1.5ohm to 4.5 ohm and they seem to vape the same,but battery life seems longer with the higher ohm attys.

This lines up with electronics theory.

I know the higher resistance atomizer I use then the faster the battery drains with the same wattage of heat.

Ok, opposite ends of the spectrum.

My electronics training tells me that higher voltage/resistance while maintaining same wattage consumption nets increased battery life. This is why an appliance wired to 120 will draw twice as much energy as the same one wired to 220. It's WHY we use 220 for energy hogs in our home. That part i'm sure of.

The real question came down to the vape experience. Heat generated is directly proportional to wattage consumed. I am just not sure that in practical application they would be discernibly noticeable i.e. TH or vapor production.

I should get my Zmax2 today (I hope), I will just have to start tinkering. The main point is battery longevity because we adjust until the vape experience is right regardless. I just wasn't thinking when I placed my order and will have a few LR DC attys to go through before I will need to buy higher Ω attys.

 

[eHuman]

A new anaolgy just hit me. (This may get flagged as a double post in another forum, appologies)

Increasing the voltage and resistance in order to perform the same work (wattage) is like changing the gear ratio on a bicycle. You can be in 1st gear and peddle your .... off to move 5 miles per hour, or you can put it in 4th gear and lesurely achieve the same speed using less energy.

3V uses 2.4A through a resistance of 1.25Ω producing 7.2W of energy, or 24.56BTU of heat. 2400 mAh batt lasts 1 hour constant use.
6V uses 1.2A through a resistance of 5Ω producing 7.2W of energy, or 24.56BTU of heat. 2400 mAh batt lasts 2 hours constant use.

Unless the pulsing power supply drastically changes things, in theory; if you increase the available voltage/resistance combo in order to maintain the same wattage (work) then you will consume less energy to perform the same task. That's why our large appliances are hooked to 240, for energy efficiency/conservation. An appliance will consume twice as much energy running at 120VAC than it will running at 240VAC.

By decreasing resistance (less ohms/1st gear bicycle example) and decreasing static force applied to the pedal (less voltage) you must work harder peddling faster (more amperage/faster rate of depleating energy reserve or battery) in order to achieve the same speed (wattage/power) but your reserves won't last as long (battery run time available).

By increasing resistance (more ohms/4th gear bicycle example) and increasing force applied (more voltage) you can take it easy and relax peddling slower (less amperage/slower rate of depleating energy reserve or battery) and get the same job done (wattage/power/speed of bicycle travel) and your power reserves will last longer (battery run time available).

Amperage is the rate at which our batteries drain.
Wattage is the amount of work done.
Since our devices are ultimaely controlling wattage (either automatically in VW mode or by proxy in VV mode), voltage and resistance merely become variables that are manipulated in order to achieve desired results in watts.

ANY time we can achieve the same desired work (watts) by decreasing our rate of battery drain (current) (achieved by increasing voltage and resistance) we are reserving energy and in the long run are able to achieve more work (increased available vape time) before needing to replentish our reserves (charge our batteries).

(Hope I simplified that and not confused it.)

Just my 2¢

 

[cyclotron]

Adding something that you might find off topic but I feel it is in the spirit of your questions. I use RBAs and I have a few different types and gauges of wire. I use VW and it is good at keeping the experience consistent. I find that the coil/wick make up and wraps have a greater influence on experience than anything else. If I use one wire at "X" number of wraps and get "X" ohm but use another wire at "Y" wraps for "X" ohms I find the experience changes.

My preference currently is NiChrome 80 32awg with about 8 wraps for a 2.0-2.2 Ohms. Recently I have found juices that I like at different wattage and so that has come into play.

 

[eHuman]

Not off topic at all cyclotron.

If I use one wire at "X" number of wraps and get "X" ohm but use another wire at "Y" wraps for "X" ohms I find the experience changes.

In theory that makes some sense. Differing gauges of wire but same resistance = same wattage and BTUs but different heating/cooling profiles. Thicker gauge takes longer to heat and cool, thinner gauge takes less time to heat and cool. Thinner guage may appear to hit sooner, and give a warmer hit.

Probably not a huge difference, but noticable as you said.

 

[JKVaper]

Its like this...lets take a bucket...you want to have the same gPh...you make a small hole and a large one...obviously the large one will require less top pressure to get to the gPh your wanting to achive then the small hole, which obviously will require more pressure to get to the end result.

Resistance is the same principal in a sense, the higher the resistance the more push is required to get the same result..chewing up more amps to do so. This drains the batter faster.
In a sense this is how I understand it to work. I know the higher resistance atomizer I use then the faster the battery drains with the same wattage of heat.

Hope this helps.

Opposite ends of the spectrum
I see where your going here but actually higher resistance value = bigger hole.

Using this theory think of 1.2ohms as being a 1" hole and 2.4ohms as a 2" hole.
It will take more watts to push through a 1" hole, thus drain the battery faster.

 

[Berylanna]

Not off topic at all cyclotron.



In theory that makes some sense. Differing gauges of wire but same resistance = same wattage and BTUs but different heating/cooling profiles. Thicker gauge takes longer to heat and cool, thinner gauge takes less time to heat and cool. Thinner guage may appear to hit sooner, and give a warmer hit.

Probably not a huge difference, but noticable as you said.

Also more wraps gives more contact with the wick, depending of course on whether the wire cuts deeper when it is thinner and all kinds of other fiddly math. It is probably too hard to calculate for lack of inability to calculate the touching surfaces.

Unless there is a way to compare the loaded/unloaded ratio between different wraps, or some such thing.

 

[justinred]

Another thing to consider with regards to battery drain on higher voltage is the loss when the mod circuit steps up the output voltage from the battery rated voltage. Ex. battery is 3.7 volts and vv mod is set to output 4.8 volts, there would be some energy loss in the step up circuitry. Mod low battery cutoff will kick in earlier too if mod output voltage is set to higher than battery voltage. But yes I do notice longer battery life on higher resistance/higher voltage combo + cooler vape compared to low combo at the same wattage.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

This lines up with electronics theory.

Ok, opposite ends of the spectrum.

My electronics training tells me that higher voltage/resistance while maintaining same wattage consumption nets increased battery life. This is why an appliance wired to 120 will draw twice as much energy as the same one wired to 220. It's WHY we use 220 for energy hogs in our home. That part i'm sure of.

The real question came down to the vape experience. Heat generated is directly proportional to wattage consumed. I am just not sure that in practical application they would be discernibly noticeable i.e. TH or vapor production.

I should get my Zmax2 today (I hope), I will just have to start tinkering. The main point is battery longevity because we adjust until the vape experience is right regardless. I just wasn't thinking when I placed my order and will have a few LR DC attys to go through before I will need to buy higher Ω attys.

Ok, mind blown...please do explain how all that works...lets say that 6 watt's of heat should be 6 watts of heat reguardless of the voltage/resistance combo...

 

[Thompson]

Besides battery life, the difference in resistances can mean a difference in amount of coils.

This will change the surface area of coil to wick.

But a longer and/or thicker gauge wire will require more power behind it to achieve the same heat but its over that larger area.

So I would assume that a smaller coil, with less ohms, will heat up quicker and therefore probably give a stronger TH because the generally lower resistance will allow more energy. As I said though this last bit is an assumption.

I'm going to have my A7s by Saturday and will probably mess around with the longer/shorter coil comparisons. Need some 28awg Kanthal though.

 

[eHuman]

Ok, mind blown...please do explain how all that works...lets say that 6 watt's of heat should be 6 watts of heat reguardless of the voltage/resistance combo...

Wolf, (A little background) BTU stands for British Thermal Units. 1 BTU = 1055 joules. Approximate energy required to heat one pound of water from 39°F to 40°F.

P(BTU/hr) = 3.412142 · P(W) 1 watt = 3.412142 BTU
BTUs are a direct conversion from Watts, no matter how you get those Watts.
Watts are calculated (one of the formulas anyway) P=V^2/R (votage squared divided by resistance)
If you look at the P formula, you will see that if you proportionally raise the values of V and R, it is possible to maintain the value of P without changing it.

Two examples:
1. A 2Ω load (coil/atty) @ 4.47v will use 2.24A to produce 10 watts of energy and 34.12142BTUs of heat.
2. A 10Ω load(coil/atty) @ 10v will use 1A to produce 10 watts of energy and 34.12142BTUs of heat.

In both examples, each generate the same watts/power and by proxy the same BTU/heat.
In example 1, 2.24A is required to achieve 10 watts.
In example 2, 1A is required to achieve 10 watts.

Given a 1000mAh battery for a source:
Example 1, the battery would last .44 hour(s) continuous use.
Example 2, the battery would last 1 hour(s) continuous use.

Our batteries drain based on current (mAh = milli amps per hour)
Heat is produced based on watts/power
Current is calculated V/R (voltage divided by Resistance)
Power/watts can be calculated three ways depending on what information you have, plug in the values:
P=V*V/R (use if you don't know current)
P=V*I (use if you don't know resistance)
P=I*I*R (use if you don't know voltage)

P=V*V/R <-- Looking at this formula, you can see that infinite value combinations can used for V and R while maintaining the value of P.

Examples:
v*v / r = p
1*1 / 1 = 1
2*2 / 4 = 1
3*3 / 9 = 1
By increasing V and R, less current or energy is used, but the same power is generated. (That's why our big home appliances use 220/240 instead of 120, and why Europe uses 230 volts, the electric company doesn't have to produce as much.)

In the bucket example, a SMALLER hole provides more resistance than a larger hole.
The large hole (less resistance) requires less push behind it (less voltage);
than a small hole (more resistance) needing more push (more voltage) in order to achieve the same work performed (power/watts) but both holes had different flow (current).
Large hole accomplishes task faster (higher current) (less time it takes the bucket/battery to drain)
Small hole accomplishes task slower (lower current) (more time it takes the bucket/battery to drain)

Wall of text I know, I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence, but I also don't know what knowledge bas people have so I tried to explain the technical but use simple examples that can be grasped.

And like a few people have pointed out ^this is in theory on the drawing board. There are many other variables that can affect performance. Battery/atty/wick quality, physical characteristics and positioning of atty/wick, the fact that our VV/VW MODS use a step up transformer to generate higher voltage than battery source, how much current drains when our PV sits idle...

 

[Hoosier]

...Two examples:
1. A 2Ω load (coil/atty) @ 4.47v will use 2.24A to produce 10 watts of energy and 34.12142BTUs of heat.
2. A 10Ω load(coil/atty) @ 10v will use 1A to produce 10 watts of energy and 34.12142BTUs of heat.

In both examples, each generate the same watts/power and by proxy the same BTU/heat.
In example 1, 2.24A is required to achieve 10 watts.
In example 2, 1A is required to achieve 10 watts.

Given a 1000mAh battery for a source:
Example 1, the battery would last .44 hour(s) continuous use.
Example 2, the battery would last 1 hour(s) continuous use....

This would only be correct if both batteries had the same mAh capacity but one battery produced 4.47 Volts while the other produced 10 Volts.

The reason battery capacities are rated in amps is because the voltage is fixed. A battery is a power storage device, but since one component of the product is fixed, there is no need to use wattage. Plus circuit designers need to know the current supply capacity of a battery/power supply.

Power is transferred, not voltage, not current. The power consumed by the circuit is supplied by the source. Voltage increasing means increased current from a fixed voltage supply because power is transferred. Then add in the fact that all circuits have to consume some power to perform the voltage changes, higher voltage should actually drain a battery quicker for the same wattage. It may not be sensed by the user, but that is what has to happen. Physics is physics.