Petition to prevent FDA regulations
- Thread starter Huntsvappin
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
It is this sort of inquiry that makes it challenging for me to get behind the signing of the WH petition. I haven't signed it yet, and have submitted comments to the FDA docket.
I wonder what makes people (anyone reading this) believe that the FDA can't or won't regulate eCigs / ecig related products, particularly those with nicotine in them? And then have already asked here on ECF what makes fellow vapers convinced that FDA is going to outright ban eCigs / ecig related products? Some claim the latter question has already been sufficiently answered, and I beg to differ. So, until that is sufficiently answered, for me, the petition just doesn't seem like a plausible action / cause to get behind. Sorry. I am very willing to update my thinking on this matter, but also desiring reasonable discussion to (help me) get there.
It honestly can't hurt. If nothing else, it's a record of support for e-cigarettes to point to. But we had a hard time getting the 5,000 signatures required for the first WH petition submitted. I fear it's almost impossible to get 25,000. And even if they do, we will most likely get the same answer from the FDA we got before or they'll say "we already answered this one."
Even greater is my fear that come April, when the FDA releases it's actual deemed regulations on e-cigarettes for public comment, that not enough people will comment on the official docket, because they will mistakenly believe they "already did that" when they signed a petition.
Yes, my biggest concerns are what guidelines they will be placing on the e-juice vendors. That is the area I see we have the most to worry about potentially. The hardware side I am not worried about, as I have voiced in my last several posts.
It honestly can't hurt. If nothing else, it's a record of support for e-cigarettes to point to. But we had a hard time getting the 5,000 signatures required for the first WH petition submitted. I fear it's almost impossible to get 25,000. And even if they do, we will most likely get the same answer from the FDA we got before or they'll say "we already answered this one."
Even greater is my fear that come April, when the FDA releases it's actual deemed regulations on e-cigarettes for public comment, that not enough people will comment on the official docket, because they will mistakenly believe they "already did that" when they signed a petition.
And not only that, but the current comments being made on extending the recommended time that NRT's are used to essentially turn them into a THR product is mistakingly thought of as having something to do with e-cigs. It doesn't except in an offhand way in that e-cigs are also a THR product.
I agree it is highly doubtful we will get the 25,000 signatures, and even it we do it will be ignored. There have been a number of times since the first one that someone appeared on this forum with the idea of starting another one (usual newbies who weren't aware that it had already been done). The common wisdom was that it was a waste of time and energy.
Once the deeming regulations come out in April we will all know EXACTLY where we stand.Even greater is my fear that come April, when the FDA releases it's actual deemed regulations on e-cigarettes for public comment, that not enough people will comment on the official docket, because they will mistakenly believe they "already did that" when they signed a petition.
And if, as most expect, some of the regulations are severely damaging to the industry, we will all know it.
I am quite certain that EVERY vaper on every forum will get involved.
And every vendor will get their customers involved.
And every vape show will get involved.
The only question I have is what form that involvement will take...
And how far each vaper will be willing to go to protect their ability to vape the way they want to.
It honestly can't hurt. If nothing else, it's a record of support for e-cigarettes to point to. But we had a hard time getting the 5,000 signatures required for the first WH petition submitted. I fear it's almost impossible to get 25,000. And even if they do, we will most likely get the same answer from the FDA we got before or they'll say "we already answered this one."
Even greater is my fear that come April, when the FDA releases it's actual deemed regulations on e-cigarettes for public comment, that not enough people will comment on the official docket, because they will mistakenly believe they "already did that" when they signed a petition.
I don't share the fear, but understand the concern for April matters and how vaping community may not respond in way to help own individuals' cause and desired choices. Hopefully campaigns like the permanent one that CASAA is up to will help less informed vapers understand why us coming together more than once is necessary for long term considerations.
I think a pro-active petition may be more effective. Something along lines of:
Petition to the Obama Admin to:
Keep electronic cigs, accessories and associated liquids within an open market.
> And then speak about that market (as it stands now) for how it is helping smokers / nic users enjoy a product that is known to have less harmful effects than smoking. Perhaps cite the anecdotal evidence, current scientific findings and possibly political ideas that appear to stand against the open market. But the last item is more reactive than pro-active. The pro-active petition I believe stands a better chance of gaining wide support. I do think specific wording matters, and we vapers might not come up with something that everyone (or each vaper) agrees on. Perhaps the less added wording, the better. Petition the Obama Admin to say eCigs ought to stay in the open market and leave it at that.
Just an idea.
With all do respest..... have fun with all of that hardware if you dont have the Nic to use with it. Even if you DIY, Nic will be hard to come by!
There is not going to be an issue on getting nic. Ever. Nic can be used in other ways than for consumption by human beings, including in the use as a pesticide for organic gardening. Thus you just have to be sure to either test your nic levels, or get your nic from a reputable source, so you know you are getting a constant and expected level of nic in your juice.
Oh really. So, help us plan. Where are these "reputable" sources for nic outside the ecig stores we all know?
I seriously doubt that nicotine used for pesticide is of acceptable quality for inhalation.
Extracting your own is possible, but pretty dangerous. As you will be handling pure nicotine.
Last edited:
Last time I checked USP Nicotine would not be banned for sale. After all it is needed for other manufacturing. So thus even places like Wizardlabs could sell it. Any registered lab could still sell it.
Oh and I would use pesticide nicotine. I was just making the point that nicotine itself won't become illegal because there is more than just the use for e-cigs
Oh and I would use pesticide nicotine. I was just making the point that nicotine itself won't become illegal because there is more than just the use for e-cigs
Let's hope so.
How many vapers are not going to go through the hassle of getting into DIY though?
I am not even sure I would bother, although I probably would.
But it sure would suck.
The bigger question, for those who care, is what about the 40 million smokers out there who aren't vaping yet?
Who they hell is going to start vaping when DIY is the only option?
A very small percentage at best, that would be my guess.
Oh I agree DC2, and hope that they don't make it to where we can't get the e-juice. Though I doubt BT will allow that to happen. I was really thinking honestly that the e-juice is the only thing that has any chance of *sticking* with any regulations. As hardware manufactures can get around the rules by not marketing them as cig replacements.
My opinion...
Big Tobacco will probably make sure electronic cigarettes will stay...
But only in sealed cartridges.
I guess it all comes down to whether or not Big Tobacco will see dollar signs in manufacturing refill juice...
And whether or not Big Tobacco realizes that might be critical to their success.
If there are only refillable cartridges, and no free-roaming juice, the cost to vape will be MUCH higher than it is now.
And the flavor choices will be very much limited compared to what we have now.
I really hope Big Tobacco can see the bigger picture...
The more people that successfully switch, the more money they can make long term.
Big Tobacco will probably make sure electronic cigarettes will stay...
But only in sealed cartridges.
I guess it all comes down to whether or not Big Tobacco will see dollar signs in manufacturing refill juice...
And whether or not Big Tobacco realizes that might be critical to their success.
If there are only refillable cartridges, and no free-roaming juice, the cost to vape will be MUCH higher than it is now.
And the flavor choices will be very much limited compared to what we have now.
I really hope Big Tobacco can see the bigger picture...
The more people that successfully switch, the more money they can make long term.
Let's see, we are using nicotine concentrations ranging from 0.6% to 3.6% (with a few people going as high as 5.4%.)
Nicotine sulfate is sold as a 40 percent nicotine sulfate concentrate under trade names that include Black Leaf 40 or Tender Leaf Plant Insect spray. Some Pesticides Permitted in Organic Gardening
Do you believe places like Wizard Lab could remain in business if they did not sell their nic to e-juice vendors? Would DIYers provide enough business? So, we have several vendors who sell unflavored nic, like WL, XTR, MFS, VZ, CCV, RTS, etc. How many could stay in business just to supply DIYers? I know, a lot of questions!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
