Petition to prevent FDA regulations

[2coils]

Oh, I signed it but did you see the response from the White House??
Gee Wiz....

I have searched for a response but couldnt find one. can you past a link?

 

[tacticalmobius]

my signatures been added

 

[daPorkchop]

Added my signature. I thought there would be way more signatures. Guess we have to wait til Feb and hope we get enough people by then. Also, the link you guys have will only work for people that have been signed in already, and not even then for me. It has a user?destination tag. That takes me to my profile there. Anyway, i've shortened the url with google.

http://goo.gl/mCQaK

 

[Thompson]

Signed, er, clicked.

 

[in4mati0n11]

Bumperoooski

 

[Kenzi]

signed and posted to FB.

 

[FloridaNoob]

Many people don't realize is that to some extent, e-cigarettes are already being regulated by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) and the FDA’s Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition (CFSAN). The DOT is regulating the safe transport of the lithium ion batteries used in e-cigarettes. CFSAN regulates the safety of the liquids used in e-cigarette. The law requires all companies that produce products for human consumption to register their facility and operations with the U.S. Food & Drug Administration pursuant to Section 305 of the Bioterrorism Act of 2002, P.L. 107-188. Further, all information pertaining to a company's address and nature of business must be current with FDA at all times.

But to my knowledge, there is only one (large) facility with an FDA-registered lab.

Frankly, I think vapers (and smokers that might be convinced to switch) would be better off if they leave it at that.

But if CTP insists on being the arm of FDA that regulates, even if they only regulate e-liquid, we still have problems. Some of the ideas the ANTZ have been tossing around include (and their reasoning):

• Limit nicotine content (to limit addictiveness of e-cigarettes)
• Allow only sealed, tamper-proof cartridges to be sold (to reduce chance of poisoning)
• Eliminate all flavors except for tobacco & menthol (to prevent kids getting hooked on all the yummy flavors and then moving up to smoking real non-flavored cigarettes)

However in the scientific literature I have also read complaints by scientists that there are too many different models, and in order for them to do any accurate measurements (such as how much nicotine we are getting per puff), they need to have e-cigarettes limited to a single model. That would, of course, imply "regulating" (controlling) the hardware--all of the hardware.

I still don't think, in the end, they will be able to do the regulating of the hardware. The manufacture can simply say their product is not for use with liquids containing nic. Thus not subject to regulation. Sorta like how head shops can leagally sell items that really made for *other* uses, and say they are meant for regular tobacco use. If someone wants to use their products for uses other than advertised the manufacture is not responsible. So ultimately the nic juice and cartridges are the only thing the FDA can cause harm with. Even persons selling 0 nic juice with flavoring would be fine. Unless you can point out a way they can force something non-tobacco related to be regulated by the FDA.

 

[VapeAddict]

Signed and shared on Facebook...EVERYONE needs to do this

 

[daPorkchop]

I still don't think, in the end, they will be able to do the regulating of the hardware. The manufacture can simply say their product is not for use with liquids containing nic. Thus not subject to regulation. Sorta like how head shops can leagally sell items that really made for *other* uses, and say they are meant for regular tobacco use. If someone wants to use their products for uses other than advertised the manufacture is not responsible. So ultimately the nic juice and cartridges are the only thing the FDA can cause harm with. Even persons selling 0 nic juice with flavoring would be fine. Unless you can point out a way they can force something non-tobacco related to be regulated by the FDA.

Well, the FDA approves the flavorings if I'm not mistaken. Also, the PG. Though, they can just say not intended to be inhaled and be fine. Also, from what I've read around the web, the nicotine juice is synthetic, not a tobacco nicotine. However, they still fall under the drug administration because nicotine is classified as a drug. The way the drug is distributed (according to the FDA) has to be regulated.

 

[daPorkchop]

Many people don't realize is that to some extent, e-cigarettes are already being regulated by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) and the FDA’s Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition (CFSAN). The DOT is regulating the safe transport of the lithium ion batteries used in e-cigarettes. CFSAN regulates the safety of the liquids used in e-cigarette. The law requires all companies that produce products for human consumption to register their facility and operations with the U.S. Food & Drug Administration pursuant to Section 305 of the Bioterrorism Act of 2002, P.L. 107-188. Further, all information pertaining to a company's address and nature of business must be current with FDA at all times.

But to my knowledge, there is only one (large) facility with an FDA-registered lab.

Frankly, I think vapers (and smokers that might be convinced to switch) would be better off if they leave it at that.

But if CTP insists on being the arm of FDA that regulates, even if they only regulate e-liquid, we still have problems. Some of the ideas the ANTZ have been tossing around include (and their reasoning):

• Limit nicotine content (to limit addictiveness of e-cigarettes)
• Allow only sealed, tamper-proof cartridges to be sold (to reduce chance of poisoning)
• Eliminate all flavors except for tobacco & menthol (to prevent kids getting hooked on all the yummy flavors and then moving up to smoking real non-flavored cigarettes)

However in the scientific literature I have also read complaints by scientists that there are too many different models, and in order for them to do any accurate measurements (such as how much nicotine we are getting per puff), they need to have e-cigarettes limited to a single model. That would, of course, imply "regulating" (controlling) the hardware--all of the hardware.

I'm going to have to agree with Floridanoob here. Regulating would seem only to apply to the commercially produced products specifically labeled as an ecig and then, also regulation of nicotine ejuice. Personal vaporizers (mods) and epipes shouldn't be regulated anymore than analog pipes currently are. Like Florida said, they can say "not for use with nic juice". The sell of nic juice concentration sounds like it would be a good idea to regulate. There was a discovery (i don't know when) on this board that there was a company selling 1000mg/ml nic juice labeled as 100mg/ml. Isn't that a little scary? Not to mention, the average consumer doesn't actually know how much nic they are really getting when ordering from these suppliers. We a privy to a community here that works together to educate eachother on the risks and safety. What about the ones who aren't so lucky to even think about looking on a site like this?

Don't get me wrong, having to be an FDA approved lab to mix these juices for sale to the masses will be a detrimental hit to our community. We also have a close knit community here, so I'm sure most suppliers (if not all) are doing the best they can with our safety in mind. For now anyway. (Not saying any of the current suppliers are doing or will do anything shady. Just saying in the future when there could be a greedy dude that comes along and all he cares about is money. Especially if/when vaping takes flight to the extent of what tobacco companies are.)

I would be for the regulation of nicotine concentrations at the manufacturing point. However, I know the FDA won't stop there and will want to keep going til they can get rid of all PVs, ecigs, etc. Therefore, I do not want them stepping in at all and hope we can do something to stop them, again.

 

[DC2]

Well, the FDA approves the flavorings if I'm not mistaken. Also, the PG. Though, they can just say not intended to be inhaled and be fine. Also, from what I've read around the web, the nicotine juice is synthetic, not a tobacco nicotine. However, they still fall under the drug administration because nicotine is classified as a drug. The way the drug is distributed (according to the FDA) has to be regulated.

I'm not sure where you read that, but the nicotine we use is extracted from tobacco, same as the NRT products.
Synthetic nicotine would be way too expensive, and as far as I know there is nobody even making it.

 

[kristin]

What makes people believe that the FDA can't or won't regulate electronics? It regulates all sorts of electronic medical equipment and under FSPTCA, since it has the power to deem regulations on tobacco products, it can choose to regulate devices intended to deliver tobacco-sourced nicotine solutions. It's true that companies can choose to sell mod-style devices subversively, but they will remain a small, niche market if they can't advertise to users that their device can be used with e-liquid.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

What makes people believe that the FDA can't or won't regulate electronics? It regulates all sorts of electronic medical equipment and under FSPTCA, since it has the power to deem regulations on tobacco products, it can choose to regulate devices intended to deliver tobacco-sourced nicotine solutions. It's true that companies can choose to sell mod-style devices subversively, but they will remain a small, niche market if they can't advertise to users that their device can be used with e-liquid.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^ E-Cigarettes beyond ineffective low mg minis sold by companies with the money to get them approved will become underground sourced and only available to those who know where to get them. I almost went back to stinkies before I found ECF, box mods, cartos and then carto tanks. Without them I would still have continued my 53 year 3 pack a day habit.

 

[Elnroth]

This^^^^^^^^^^^^ E-Cigarettes beyond ineffective low mg minis sold by companies with the money to get them approved will become underground sourced and only available to those who know where to get them. I almost went back to stinkies before I found ECF, box mods, cartos and then carto tanks. Without them I would still have continued my 53 year 3 pack a day habit.

Well make sure you sign. And get your friends and family to also

 

[Vocalek]

I have searched for a response but couldnt find one. can you past a link?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...nd-support-job-creation-new-industry/57vtB0QK

Scroll down to see the response from Lawrence Deyton who runs the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products.

That's kind of like going to the principal complaining about a kid that is bullying you, and the principal calls the bully in and invites him to teach you a lesson.

 

[sonicdsl]

...That's kind of like going to the principal complaining about a kid that is bullying you, and the principal calls the bully in and invites him to teach you a lesson.

Brilliant analogy Elaine!!

Sent from space, the final frontier, via Tapatalk

 

[FloridaNoob]

What makes people believe that the FDA can't or won't regulate electronics? It regulates all sorts of electronic medical equipment and under FSPTCA, since it has the power to deem regulations on tobacco products, it can choose to regulate devices intended to deliver tobacco-sourced nicotine solutions. It's true that companies can choose to sell mod-style devices subversively, but they will remain a small, niche market if they can't advertise to users that their device can be used with e-liquid.

Who says it would be a niche market? Who says they can't advertise it us useable with e-liquid. E-liquid is already sold with 0 nic. Thus as long as they don't say they are useable with e-liquid with nic content they are not a device intended to deliver Tobacco-sourced nicotene solutions. that means only the manufactures making cartridge only devices would be technically subject to regulations of electronics. It is all a matter of marketting and branding.

Examples: If I package an eGo-T with a bottle of banna flavored e-juice that only contained pg/vg no nic I am not subject to Tobacco-sourced restrictions. However, if I package the same eGo-T with a bottle of 18mg nic e-juice. I AM selling an item subject to those restrictions as I have defined the purpose of the product as for use with nicotine.

Just like a glass pipe can be used for either tobacco or *other* substances. If the pipe is used with tobacco it is a leagal item. However, if it is used with *other* substance is an illeagal item and you can be arrested. Thus they are able to be sold in stores as long as they are not labeled for use with that *other* substance.

How hard is this to grasp? LOL

another example: If I sell a beverage container to use in a motor vehicle I cannot advertise it to be used with an alcoholic beverage as that would be illegal to do with said container. However, I can advertise it to be used with beverages as a whole. Same can be said for PV makers. As long as they only mention e-juice and not specifically e-juice with nic content they would be exempt from FDA rules on tobacco-items.

 

[ncargrl]

Just signed and passed it on . . . we need lots more signatures, folks!

 

[DC2]

The only way we are going to get 25,000 signatures is to get everyone we know to sign it.
I suggest going to every person you work with and personally taking them to the site and watching them sign.

It goes without saying that every vaper's family members should have already signed.
Along with every vaper's friends.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Signed and posted on facebook.