Post pictures of your working wick and coil setup

[badinfluence357]

I'm still trying to find one for my test that isn't a hot air machine.

Don't give up! Once you get the hang of the five finger tickle you'll be flying! Just remember that when you tighten up the wires as you splay them you need to keep the tension either side of the main wire even.
What main and 5loop wire did you use?

For the alien start off with something like 3x 26g kanthal for the cores and either 32 or 34g for the outer wrap, use a 26g core to make your de-cored clapton.
Once you've stretched out your de-cored clapton test it by holding it across your 3 main wires to see if it has enough stretch.

Failing that a guy somewhere else uses a ratio to get his stretch right by doing 10" of clapton wire stretched to 78.5" gives 6" of alien, this isn't a relaxed decored clapton at 78.5", when you let the wire relax it will be shorter, sometimes i'm terrible at explaining! hope you understand!

I used 28g ....



Got to protect the pics...lol

 

[Justadude]

Now build young Grasshopper so your coils won't be weak!

Hahahahahahahaha working on it home

Not mine

and neither is this

or this

And these are yours?

 

[Boden]

I need some help. Can one of you recommend a art coil that isn't just for looking pretty.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Not mine

Sorry if this is a stupid question, been making my MM exclusively for a long time. Did you twist before or after wrapping the outer layer? This one is intriguing to me.

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

I'm gonna make some MM wire very soon, its been a while! i bought some more ribbon to make some but forgot all about it till you popped in Mr.Mundy ...nice to see you

 

[Boden]

Decided on a simple six strand 32ga vertibraid

 

[Justadude]

I need some help. Can one of you recommend a art coil that isn't just for looking pretty.

Yeah I can recommend several. Zipper coil, preferably helixed, staggered staple coil, just to name a few. See my previous posts few pages back.

 

[Boden]

Yeah I can recommend several. Zipper coil, preferably helixed, staggered staple coil, just to name a few. See my previous posts few pages back.

I've got some staggered stapled around here somewhere. Made that a few years ago. May be hard to find.

Problem with those coils is they are so high mass with so much wire away from the wick they would produce too much hot air and not enough vapor at 66W using 4 second puffs. I could make micro versions to keep the mass down but that isn't really the same as using the full size version.

The way the test is designed, 66W and sets of three 4 second puffs is one of the controls.

I could design a new set of test parameters for really high mass low evaporation effiency coils.

I'll have to think on this one. Any input is appreciated.

Edit: found it (coin is a dime)

 

[Boden]

One thing, please don't think I care or have an agenda. If someone wants to take a 1 second puff at 160W and get a really hot vape more power to them.

This all started with me simply comparing a 26/32 fused Clapton to a 26ga parallel build of the same ID and width. The results I got were very unexpected. After running a few different wire gauges through the same test I realized the common assumptions about how different builds worked was incorrect.

 

[Justadude]

Forget about your tests. What EXACTLY are you looking for???

 

[Justadude]

If you're THAT focused on heat go on steam engine and research heat flux. That's the best way to get the temperature of what you're gonna build. Super coils is not the way to go if you're trying to compare. You would have to build a hundred helixed zippers alone with different gauges. Waste of wire imo

 

[Justadude]

And if you want less heat simply lower the watts

 

[Boden]

You seem defensive, please don't be. I have no interest in telling anyone how to vape or what they should like.

Forget about your tests. What EXACTLY are you looking for???

I want to know how coils do what they do.

If you're THAT focused on heat go on steam engine and research heat flux. That's the best way to get the temperature of what you're gonna build. Super coils is not the way to go if you're trying to compare. You would have to build a hundred helixed zippers alone with different gauges. Waste of wire imo

Steam engine does not calculate heat flux correctly. It assumes heat radiated by a straight piece of wire. That does not apply to our application.

Agreed, I don't need to build many more to complete my model.

And if you want less heat simply lower the watts

But what if you want more vapor and less heat or more heat and less vapor?

That's the point of this chart. To share what I've learned

 

[Justadude]

Dude I'm not being offensive at all. And I'm glad you're doing the scientific work and most importantly staying off of cigs.

You're right about steam and I didn't know you knew that. My point is that there is a ton of variables in what makes up the intensity of the vapor, and how hot it's gonna be. I'm not gonna repeat it all as it sounds like you already know them.

Everyone is gonna have different vaping preferences and have different experiences. It's all subjective. That's the beautiful thing about vaping. It's all different. What works for me may not work for you. So again - what the dilly yo ?
Lol
What're you after exactly bro?

 

[Boden]

Dude I'm not being offensive at all. And I'm glad you're doing the scientific work and most importantly staying off of cigs.

You're right about steam and I didn't know you knew that. My point is that there is a ton of variables in what makes up the intensity of the vapor, and how hot it's gonna be. I'm not gonna repeat it all as it sounds like you already know them.

Everyone is gonna have different vaping preferences and have different experiences. It's all subjective. That's the beautiful thing about vaping. It's all different. What works for me may not work for you. So again - what the dilly yo ?
Lol
What're you after exactly bro?

To win all the cloud comps!!!!!!



From y'all? Just wanted some suggestions for coils to test.

I'll let you know what I find. Do with it as you will.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

No matter how the structure of the coil is, one important factor is that there is an even distribution of eliquid on the surface. Some coils are more adapt at wicking it around and in to all the surfaces than others. As an example, standard MM is what I would call medium in efficiency of wetting surfaces evenly. Due to that it shines with flavor in a squonker with a small chamber and as small a "well" as possible so that when squonking the liquid gets up to the level it saturates all the surfaces and into the folds. Used in a dripper or tank situation where the liquid is only or mostly coming through the wick it seems hotter with less flavor. MM that is made of wider and thinner wire than .6X.07 is less efficient at wetting and at the extreme end I have tried 1.0X.01 which is a really hot ..... with little flavor unless drenched every hit and even then becomes that way quickly because it can't "wick" liquid around the surfaces from the wick very well. I'm what is now considered a tootle puffer at 25 to 30 watts so I can't speak to the higher wattage builds other than it should exasperate the wetting problem further due to the higher spot heat fluxes requiring more surface area. I did do some experimenting with extremely low resistance / low voltage / high amperage (I made a regulated high amperage low voltage mod) a couple of years ago with SS mesh rolled up genesis style as the wick and coil both and it could handle the high power while retaining the wetting ability so it was very cool and wet vape.

 

[Boden]

No matter how the structure of the coil is, one important factor is that there is an even distribution of eliquid on the surface. Some coils are more adapt at wicking it around and in to all the surfaces than others. As an example, standard MM is what I would call medium in efficiency of wetting surfaces evenly. Due to that it shines with flavor in a squonker with a small chamber and as small a "well" as possible so that when squonking the liquid gets up to the level it saturates all the surfaces and into the folds. Used in a dripper or tank situation where the liquid is only or mostly coming through the wick it seems hotter with less flavor. MM that is made of wider and thinner wire than .6X.07 is less efficient at wetting and at the extreme end I have tried 1.0X.01 which is a really hot ..... with little flavor unless drenched every hit and even then becomes that way quickly because it can't "wick" liquid around the surfaces from the wick very well. I'm what is now considered a tootle puffer at 25 to 30 watts so I can't speak to the higher wattage builds other than it should exasperate the wetting problem further due to the higher spot heat fluxes requiring more surface area. I did do some experimenting with extremely low resistance / low voltage / high amperage (I made a regulated high amperage low voltage mod) a couple of years ago with SS mesh rolled up genesis style as the wick and coil both and it could handle the high power while retaining the wetting ability so it was very cool and wet vape.

This goes along with what I'm seeing. The thinner (higher gauge) the wire is the more liquid it evaporates and less hot air is produced. Thick wire has very little of the total surface area in contact with the wick which would explain why the coils with most of mass away from the wick produce less vapor and more hot air. More hot air is good for bakery flavors as those flavors tend to be better warm. For fruit flavors I find a cooler denser vapor is more pleasant so I use thin wire builds.

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

I've got some staggered stapled around here somewhere. Made that a few years ago. May be hard to find.

Problem with those coils is they are so high mass with so much wire away from the wick they would produce too much hot air and not enough vapor at 66W using 4 second puffs. I could make micro versions to keep the mass down but that isn't really the same as using the full size version.

The way the test is designed, 66W and sets of three 4 second puffs is one of the controls.

I could design a new set of test parameters for really high mass low evaporation effiency coils.

I'll have to think on this one. Any input is appreciated.

Edit: found it (coin is a dime)
View attachment 583137

On above build you would probably have seen better results in both vapor and flavour by having the round wire claptoned around each individual main strand and then having the ribbon fused around the two strands, you would create more crevices for the juice to move in and around. With the way you have made it the only thing the fused round wire is really doing is holding the parallels together, also the ribbon wire isn't very wide, it's hugging your main wire to tightly to create any crevices and make a difference, you could go with a wider ribbon which would kind of create scoops once wound onto your mandrel of choice.
See in this pic how the ribbon creates gaps where your juice will want to go, the juice always wants to run to the source of the heat which would be these little pockets that are surrounding the main wire..

View attachment 582799
28ga claptoned with 0.5x0.1 flat, fused with 38ga

Lots of hot air very little vapor.

I don't mean to undermine you but this build above isn't a Staple coil, it's a glorified ribbon build with a fused stagger over the top. A Staple coil has the ribbon sitting on its edge, it's a Huge upgrade from having the ribbon wire just laid on it's face against the wick.
Boden i couldn't let you walk away thinking that you had made your mind up on the performance of one with your own interpretation of how it should be built, you need to try the real Mccoy!
Here's a pic of a Naked framed Staple coil, but it's mainly to show you the orientation of the ribbons..


Another thing that i think is appropriate to talk about as regards the fancy coils is that ive been finding cotton superior to rayon, i find that rayon supplies the juice to quickly and makes the pulls hotter and even shorter, it's fine in most situations where the rayon is being fed continually from a source but cotton lends itself much better.
I'm quite adapt at using rayon, ive used it for a long time with single strand type coils when i had no chance of making a fancy coil but i had to allow for the way it supplies the juice.
A good guide as to wick the Hotter fancy coils would be the following video, although i use ... cotton pads as apposed to cotton balls and i don't tend to have the wick tails as long or bushed, i normally go for enough wick tail to reach the deck or source.

 

[SLIPPY_EEL]

To win all the cloud comps!!!!!!



From y'all? Just wanted some suggestions for coils to test.

I'll let you know what I find. Do with it as you will.

I get great Clouds and i vape 50/50 juice all the time! i do it for the Hot TH of the 1second pull That feeling when you used to use stinkys and get down to the end where you'd give it a few sharp puffs before chucking it!

 

[Boden]

On above build you would probably have seen better results in both vapor and flavour by having the round wire claptoned around each individual main strand and then having the ribbon fused around the two strands, you would create more crevices for the juice to move in and around. With the way you have made it the only thing the fused round wire is really doing is holding the parallels together, also the ribbon wire isn't very wide, it's hugging your main wire to tightly to create any crevices and make a difference, you could go with a wider ribbon which would kind of create scoops once wound onto your mandrel of choice.
See in this pic how the ribbon creates gaps where your juice will want to go, the juice always wants to run to the source of the heat which would be these little pockets that are surrounding the main wire..





I don't mean to undermine you but this build above isn't a Staple coil, it's a glorified ribbon build with a fused stagger over the top. A Staple coil has the ribbon sitting on its edge, it's a Huge upgrade from having the ribbon wire just laid on it's face against the wick.
Boden i couldn't let you walk away thinking that you had made your mind up on the performance of one with your own interpretation of how it should be built, you need to try the real Mccoy!
Here's a pic of a Naked framed Staple coil, but it's mainly to show you the orientation of the ribbons..


Another thing that i think is appropriate to talk about as regards the fancy coils is that ive been finding cotton superior to rayon, i find that rayon supplies the juice to quickly and makes the pulls hotter and even shorter, it's fine in most situations where the rayon is being fed continually from a source but cotton lends itself much better.
I'm quite adapt at using rayon, ive used it for a long time with single strand type coils when i had no chance of making a fancy coil but i had to allow for the way it supplies the juice.
A good guide as to wick the Hotter fancy coils would be the following video, although i use ... cotton pads as apposed to cotton balls and i don't tend to have the wick tails as long or bushed, i normally go for enough wick tail to reach the deck or source.

I agree cotton is better.

For very short puffs your logic on crevice hydrodynamics is sound but for puffs longer than 1 second those crevices become vents and would not act as you describe.

I believe firmly in using the right tool for the job and you have clearly found the right tool for how you vape