Rayon Questions

[TrollDragon]

There are a few alternative sources of Rayon for those that can't buy Graham Cellucotton, dm Viskose or others.

Some pill bottles used Rayon as the filler, just make sure there is no smell from the pills. Kotex U Sleek and O.B. tampons is a source of top quality Rayon (don't laugh), you just have to skin them and gut them.

With any non standard or unknown source, a quick burn test will show if it's Rayon or not.

Take a small piece and light it to observe the burn, smell and ash. It should burn quickly and have a light gray ash that blows away. Check for odd odors in the smoke, it should smell mostly like paper and possibly a little wood. Never use anything that melts!

Rayon will also squeak between your fingers whereas cotton won't.

 

[TrollDragon]

Ekowool is still great for wicking old gennies.

 

[bombastinator]

There are a few alternative sources of Rayon for those that can't buy Graham Cellucotton, dm Viskose or others.

Some pill bottles used Rayon as the filler, just make sure there is no smell from the pills. Kotex U Sleek and O.B. tampons is a source of top quality Rayon (don't laugh), you just have to skin them and gut them.

With any non standard or unknown source, a quick burn test will show if it's Rayon or not.

Take a small piece and light it to observe the burn, smell and ash. It should burn quickly and have a light gray ash that blows away. Check for odd odors in the smoke, it should smell mostly like paper and possibly a little wood. Never use anything that melts!

Rayon will also squeak between your fingers whereas cotton won't.

Actually it’s ok. You can laugh. It does work though.

 

[Hoggy]

And I thought we moved from silica to cotton, because of synthetic particles in the lungs, but I still don't fully understand what viscose is exactly.

Viscose, aka rayon, IS cellulose fiber.
And likewise, cotton IS cellulose fiber.

Cotton comes from a tree.
Rayon/viscose comes from a tree.

The only difference is that cotton is made BY trees, and rayon is made FROM trees.
For rayon, wood pulp is used with an extruder (spinneret) to form long-ish thin fibers. The length of each fiber, IIRC, is set by each manufacturer of the cellulose-fiber/viscose/rayon product.

Basically, rayon is purified cotton fiber. So the rayon fiber itself is actually all-natural.. It's just made by a synthetic process, like many products claiming "all-natural".


From Rayon - Wikipedia (Emphasis added) ::
"
Rayon is a manufactured fiber made from regenerated cellulose fiber. The many types and grades of rayon can imitate the feel and texture of natural fibers such as silk, wool, cotton, and linen. The types that resemble silk are often called artificial silk.

Although rayon is manufactured from naturally occurring polymers, it is not considered to be synthetic[1]. Technically, the term synthetic fiber is reserved for fully synthetic fibers. In manufacturing terms, rayon is classified as "a fiber formed by regenerating natural materials into a usable form". [2] Specific types of rayon include viscose, modal and lyocell, each of which differs in manufacturing process and properties of the finished product.

Rayon is made from purified cellulose, harvested primarily from wood pulp, which is chemically converted into a soluble compound. It is then dissolved and forced through a spinneret to produce filaments which are chemically solidified, resulting in fibers of nearly pure cellulose.[3]
"

 

[Ben Killeen]

Yeah I’ve tried rayon and gave some to my local shop to try.

Didn’t like it at all, constant nutty flavour and doesn’t feel right.

Guys in the shop had a similar opinion after they tried what I had left.

They also said they won’t be stocking it.
Only cotton and ... silk mix

 

[Jebbn]

<snip>

Kotex U Sleek and O.B. tampons is a source of top quality Rayon (don't laugh), you just have to skin them and gut them.
<snip>

My first experience with rayon was harvesting a tampon.
I ordered 2m after trialling it for a while but have since come to just prefer vaping with cotton wicks. That doesn't mean I never use rayon anymore, I'm just less likely to use it over cotton.

 

[bask]

Thanks Hoggy, very interesting.

So the rayon fiber itself is actually all-natural.

This I knew. My comment about silica was because it was mentioned. Around these part everybody read the study about vapor containing silica particles that, once released into the lungs can’t be broken down by the body. People en-masse changed to cotton. But I remember people using rayon (called hairdressers’ wick) back then too. Before cotton even maybe. I remember someone giving me some at a meeting, which was in my first few months of vaping. When 2 to 3 ohm coils were the standard.

It's just made by a synthetic process, like many products claiming "all-natural".

I feel that a lot of definitions are interpreted and understood poorly. Which leads to gutteral reactions that aren’t based on knowledge, but assumptions.

 

[Katya]

Rayon is made from purified cellulose, harvested primarily from wood pulp, which is chemically converted into a soluble compound. It is then dissolved and forced through a spinneret to produce filaments which are chemically solidified, resulting in fibers of nearly pure cellulose.[3]

Right. There are some questions re. those chemical processes and chemicals involved, but it's my understanding that Jeremy addressed them in his big thread, either Part 1 or 2--long time ago--to his satisfaction. Rayon Wick - Better Flow, Flavor, Longevity, and Nic Hit!! - Pt.2

 

[Katya]

Around these part everybody read the study about vapor containing silica particles that, once released into the lungs can’t be broken down by the body. People en-masse changed to cotton.

There's a lot of misinformation around regarding silica wicks--even on this forum. There are two kinds of silica--amorphous and crystalline. The amorphous silica, used initially in cigalikes, is perfectly safe and OK to be used as a wick. The dangerous kind is the crystalline silica--the kind that causes silicosis.

The discussion about safe and unsafe silica started after Aspire introduced a mystery "ceramic" wick that crumbled to dust when touched (Busardo showed it in his video). There was a suspicion that those tiny, respirable fiberglass particles (under 5µ) could get into our lungs. This chart made by @Boden shows the size of amorphous silica fiber used in silica rope (22-32µ)--the safe kind--in comparison to the unsafe, crystalline silica fibers.

 

[gpjoe]

Yeah I’ve tried rayon and gave some to my local shop to try.

Didn’t like it at all, constant nutty flavour and doesn’t feel right.

Guys in the shop had a similar opinion after they tried what I had left.

They also said they won’t be stocking it.
Only cotton and ... silk mix

Maybe on a new wick but you need to break it in for a bit and the "nutty" flavor quickly fades, in my experience. I'm sold on rayon - it lasts a lot longer than cotton. Still use cotton balls and Ko Gen Do at times but I have a lifetime supply of rayon and won't be buying any more cotton once mine is used up, if that even happens.

 

[Katya]

I also happened to notice a book that made me question if we really want to use this product: Fake Silk: The Lethal History of Viscose Rayon the summary of which is below.

Hmm. I read what I could read for free on Amazon and then tried to find more information about the subject. My conclusion: the end product is safe for consumers, however workers (in the past?) suffered a bunch of terrible diseases. That would concern me much more, frankly, if the author wasn't a professor at UC San Francisco.

 

[Katya]

I'm certainly never going back to cotton,

I am probably not going back to rayon anytime soon. I got several feet or rayon from eBay(?) once, just to see what it was like, but I really do prefer cotton. So shoot me. Yes, rayon stays clean longer, but I don't mind rewicking. And I can taste rayon. I can.

 

[suprtrkr]

I am probably not going back to rayon anytime soon. I got several feet or rayon from eBay(?) once, just to see what it was like, but I really do prefer cotton. So shoot me. Yes, rayon stays clean longer, but I don't mind rewicking. And I can taste rayon. I can.

I always can too, right at first. But it fades fast. So fast, I've never been able to count the puffs. It's gone, and I don't think about it any more But it's less than a dozen hits.

 

[Katya]

I always can too, right at first. But it fades fast. So fast, I've never been able to count the puffs. It's gone, and I don't think about it any more But it's less than a dozen hits.

Maybe I will give it another try. But it squeaks. And you have to stuff it. Oy. Cotton is so easy to work with.

 

[gpjoe]

Maybe I will give it another try. But it squeaks. And you have to stuff it. Oy. Cotton is so easy to work with.

It does squeak Almost like nails on a chalkboard, almost.

 

[stols001]

Golly at least it's a definitive signal. I mean... Cotton never gave me one and so much work
To be fair, it was early in my RTA days.... But the leaking I should go back and try it sometime, just to have some experience.

I am highly doubtful it will replace rayon for me, I'm lazy. But it would be good to know if I can DO it for that desert island situation.

Anna

 

[DaveP]

I used standard cotton, followed by Koh Gen Do cotton for years until I discovered Sally's Cellucotton Rayon. Regular cotton always had a serious break in taste couple with short wick life. Cotton just got contaminated far too quickly. Koh Gen Do was much better, but Rayon wicks can last 5 to 7 days easily vaping mostly unflavored DIY juice.

I'm 3/4 of the way through a box of Sally's Rayon Cellucotton the last couple of years and have no plans to change unless something comes along that's even better.

 

[AngeNZ]

I'm sitting on the fence a bit here

Started with cotton muji pads, tried rayon and love it. But only after I pulse it first, or I get the nutty/popcorn taste.

To pulse it, juice your RTA wick like normal. But before putting it into the chamber - pulse it on a lower heat for a few seconds at a time. Blow on your coil to cool it. I add a drop of juice to the coil and pulse it a few times, then into the chamber she goes

I'm so finniky with rayon wicking that I use native wicks if I'm in a rush. But I do use it exclusively in the serpent elevate (the long thin tails work in rayons favour) and in some of my doggy RTAs.

 

[Katya]

Most of us moved to cotton because it's a better wick; it does a better job at keeping coils wet than silica does, and rayon is even better.

ETA2: As I recall it, people started switching to cotton when rebuilding became popular. It was a pain to wind a coil around silica rope--we had to stick a needle through the rope to stabilize it first. I hated that process and never could get it quite right. With cotton, you made a coil first (toothpicks and skinny drill bits were handy) and then just cut the wick to fit the coil. We started with organic cotton balls from Walgreens.

ETA1: I wonder if the wicking wasn't so good because the fibers were twisted into ropes. This may have impeded wicking. Hmm... I might go and find some old silica ropes and try to untwist them. Maybe not.

But silica never burns.

 

[Rossum]

But silica never burns.

Neither does rayon or cotton -- if you keep them wet!