Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[HolmanGT]

That should be no problem. Im using 32g at 20-24w on my dripper. But the plume veil has a weird airflow from what I've seen comes on at an angle from the side of the coil almost. Do you have the other side airflow blocked?

Next I would split that coil to single wire and run duals of 30g; each at 2 - 3 ohm

If you haven't washed the heck out of that clone disregard and wash that thing real good with dish soap or something and rinse the heck out of it. Mouthpiece and all.

Jeremy,

I am glad that you answered "atroph" I wasn't sure if he was saying it worked or didn't work.

I definitely think your suggesting two coils is the answer to his problem. hitting a single coil with at 15 to 20 watts sound like a great way to get burnt juice. Running Two coils at 3 ohms in in parallel is the solution to the problem, Now instead of one coil hot as He!! at 15 watts you have two coils at 7.5 watts. I run single coils at 7.5 watts and get plenty of vapor so with two coils you get plenty of vapor times two.

PS - my response is not meant to be patronizing but more of an explanation to "artroph" so please don't be insulted Jeremy. I know that you already know what I was mumbling about.

 

[f1vefour]

Ok, so how are you RDA users not burning the heck out of juice with airflow coming in from one or both sides? I am using 30ga 2 parallel strands on one side of a dual coil dripper (Plume Veil clone) and for some reason I am getting "sharp", chemical tasting hits every time (1.5 ohm build at 15-25W). I tried different coils, different wicking configs, and even went back to OC with no luck. The only thing that has seemed to work (so far) is wicking the crap out of this thing with extra long tails. I tuck one tail under the coil and one tail behind the coil and I get a good vape.

Is my 30 ga too thin to keep it at a decent temperature? I am guessing that the back of the coil is getting too hot and scorching the juice although there seems to be no evidence on the wick. I did find a little blackening on the back side of the coil and am thinking that it is getting too hot.

Am I on the right track here? Do I need fatter wire now that I have a regulated mod that can crank out the watts?

Here you can see the under wick and over/behind wick. The front is still getting a little hot but I did hit it pretty hard once due to loose screws and it shot 8.5V (~50W) into my build.

Don't run the wick under the coil and lift it up off the deck a bit more (edit: well if that's what works for you then by all means continue to do so).

Also with parallel could coils and thin wire you have to ensure both wires are being held down without one being loose and at the same time one isn't cut by the screw. If one of your coils is popping excessively it's because one of the two wires is improperly terminating causing hot spots and burning.

What I do is run the coil tails through the terminals leaving it long, snug the screws down and twist the wire that's sticking through, loosen the screws then pull the coil all the way against the terminals, fold the twisted part back over toward the terminals and pull it into the holes using the coil, pull the coil back out toward the outer lip where it goes and tighten the screws back up.

It's less complicated than I describe in practice.

 

[AMDTrucking]

Ok, so how are you RDA users not burning the heck out of juice with airflow coming in from one or both sides? I am using 30ga 2 parallel strands on one side of a dual coil dripper (Plume Veil clone) and for some reason I am getting "sharp", chemical tasting hits every time (1.5 ohm build at 15-25W). I tried different coils, different wicking configs, and even went back to OC with no luck. The only thing that has seemed to work (so far) is wicking the crap out of this thing with extra long tails. I tuck one tail under the coil and one tail behind the coil and I get a good vape.

Is my 30 ga too thin to keep it at a decent temperature? I am guessing that the back of the coil is getting too hot and scorching the juice although there seems to be no evidence on the wick. I did find a little blackening on the back side of the coil and am thinking that it is getting too hot.

Am I on the right track here? Do I need fatter wire now that I have a regulated mod that can crank out the watts?

Here you can see the under wick and over/behind wick. The front is still getting a little hot but I did hit it pretty hard once due to loose screws and it shot 8.5V (~50W) into my build.

I'm using 4 parallel strands of 30 Gauge Kanthal in this build without any side effects:

I suggest you check for a "Hot Leg" issue in your build. IMHO

P. S: What F1VeFour said makes total cense. You need all of your parallel strands of each wire perfectly connected to your posts. I chose to weld each strand of my wire to a single piece of 26 Gauge NON resistant wire on both ends. NR-R-NR. Because I wanted to avoid the issue described above and because the airholes, on this Zevith V3 are so high up above the deck and I had to raise my coils way up to match my airholes. This is why my coils have such long legs. But it doesn't matter because they are Non Resistant as well as a couple of wraps on each side of each coil just to make, otherwise flimsy coil, more sturdy.

 

[atroph]

That should be no problem. Im using 32g at 20-24w on my dripper. But the plume veil has a weird airflow from what I've seen comes on at an angle from the side of the coil almost. Do you have the other side airflow blocked?

Next I would split that coil to single wire and run duals of 30g; each at 2 - 3 ohm

If you haven't washed the heck out of that clone disregard and wash that thing real good with dish soap or something and rinse the heck out of it. Mouthpiece and all.

I have tried duals and single twisted. The single twisted in normal wick configuration seemed to be more "active" popping and such and did vape fine for a little while. Either way I still get that harsh taste.

I did clean it really good. I used scorching hot water and soaked and scrubbed it in a super concentrated solution of dawn dish soap. I vaped once on a fresh RDA and knew exactly what was wrong. This is not it IMO.

All airflow is open. I have the barrel flipped upside down due to leaking issues and I have the insulator on the top closed. IMO those holes don't do a "whole" lot as compared to the side holes. I have noticed no difference with the bottom holes open and the insulator wide open.

Is that Plume new? If it is take it completely apart and clean it good, I heard soaking them over night in denture cleaning tablets works good. When I got my new Fogger I got a nasty taste from it. I completely stripped it down, every single piece and ran it through my Ultra Sonic cleaner, two cleaning cycles and one rinse. Still had some of the taste so I soaked it in hot soapy water, brushed all the part by hand and used pipe cleaners to clean all the hole, it was better but still had some taste that finally went away with use. When I cleaned it with pipe cleaners I found a long spiral metal chip in one of the air passages. Another member reported the same nasty taste after cleaning, he pulled the positive post off and found machining oil under it.

I'll pull the post and see if something is indeed there.

Jeremy,

I am glad that you answered "atroph" I wasn't sure if he was saying it worked or didn't work.

I definitely think your suggesting two coils is the answer to his problem. hitting a single coil with at 15 to 20 watts sound like a great way to get burnt juice. Running Two coils at 3 ohms in in parallel is the solution to the problem, Now instead of one coil hot as He!! at 15 watts you have two coils at 7.5 watts. I run single coils at 7.5 watts and get plenty of vapor so with two coils you get plenty of vapor times two.

PS - my response is not meant to be patronizing but more of an explanation to "artroph" so please don't be insulted Jeremy. I know that you already know what I was mumbling about.

I switched to a twisted 30ga coil in single mode to add a little bulk to the build.

Don't run the wick under the coil and lift it up off the deck a bit more (edit: well if that's what works for you then by all means continue to do so).

Also with parallel could coils and thin wire you have to ensure both wires are being held down without one being loose and at the same time one isn't cut by the screw. If one of your coils is popping excessively it's because one of the two wires is improperly terminating causing hot spots and burning.

What I do is run the coil tails through the terminals leaving it long, snug the screws down and twist the wire that's sticking through, loosen the screws then pull the coil all the way against the terminals, fold the twisted part back over toward the terminals and pull it into the holes using the coil, pull the coil back out toward the outer lip where it goes and tighten the screws back up.

It's less complicated than I describe in practice.

Thanks for the tips! I am fairly confident with my builds, but it always helps to state the obvious when troubleshooting.

I'm using 4 parallel strands of 30 Gauge Kanthal in this build without any side effects:

I suggest you check for a "Hot Leg" issue in your build. IMHO

Thanks for the tip. I pulled the build and went a different route for now with twisted 30 ga.

New build is in. Smaller length coil, 1.3 ohm twisted 30 ga centered with the T post (and air hole). Over/Under wicks. Harsh hits until it ran about dry and was time to drip. After dripping it hit just fine....... IDK. I am going to rule out the RDA by switching to my patriot and testing how it does. If it hits fine then I'll strip down the PV and boil that sucker.lol

Parting thought. Is is possible to have too much juice and it just boils vice vaporizing causing a chemically taste? I get flavor but it is harsh as heck. It may be possible that my current juice isn't dripper friendly or I am sensitive to it somehow. In my EVODs all of these juices are great. I am currently using 1 supplier who has a 40/60 PG/VG 6nic. All of my liquids from them are doing this. I am thinking it is either my RDA as mentioned above of my juice. I do have one bottle of another juice that I am going to try and isolate the juice.

Thanks again everybody!! I've got some sleuthing to do.

 

[HolmanGT]

artroph,

There is one other contaminant that soapy hot water won't touch and that is the polishing rouge they use.

I had a problem with that on one of my KayFuns. I had to use acetone (fingernail polish remover) on everything including a cotton swab run thru any holes i.e. the drip tip and any other holes I could find. And yes I found metal chips in the air holes also.

Then wash it with dish soap and as hot water as you can stand to work with.

I don't know what the base ingredient is in the jewelers rouge but it is hard to get off and it tastes absolutely nasty.

 

[f1vefour]

Parting thought. Is is possible to have too much juice and it just boils vice vaporizing causing a chemically taste?

Yes when the coil is low on the deck and sitting in juice you can experience what I call caramelization for lack of a better word.

 

[atroph]

Ok new (old really) build on a different RDA. Twisted 30ga (maybe 32) at 1.3 ohms on a Patriot clone with drilled out airholes (@18W). First hit was a little harsh like the old RDA but after that it was smooth sailing. This thing hits really well for the $12 that I paid for it. I aligned the air hole as close to the coil just like the PV. Both holes are open even though I am running 1 coil. It may be a fluke and I will use this patriot for the rest of the evening to see if I am experiencing a placebo effect, or it is indeed a dirty RDA.

I stripped the PV down and put some water in the nuker and added enough dawn dish soap to make it really blue. I'll let it sit in there until the water gets cool. I used a toothpick to probe all the tiny nooks and crevices and noticed the tiniest bit of gunk at the very bottom of the T post. I couldn't see it with my naked eye but it did appear on the end of the toothpick. If it is the culprit it must be that polishing compound or some other leftover crud. It definitely isn't machine oil as I know how that vapes....lol.... I'll see if I have some Acetone in the garage and if not I'll snag the wife's polish remover and then do another hot water/dawn bath again.

Thanks again! Will follow up on how the Patriot does later on this evening.

Build:

Simple coil and wick setup. The tails are fanned throughout the deck. The coil is a little ugly but has a nice even glow when dry fired.

 

[jaxgator]

Ok, so how are you RDA users not burning the heck out of juice with airflow coming in from one or both sides? I am using 30ga 2 parallel strands on one side of a dual coil dripper (Plume Veil clone) and for some reason I am getting "sharp", chemical tasting hits every time (1.5 ohm build at 15-25W). I tried different coils, different wicking configs, and even went back to OC with no luck. The only thing that has seemed to work (so far) is wicking the crap out of this thing with extra long tails. I tuck one tail under the coil and one tail behind the coil and I get a good vape.

Is my 30 ga too thin to keep it at a decent temperature? I am guessing that the back of the coil is getting too hot and scorching the juice although there seems to be no evidence on the wick. I did find a little blackening on the back side of the coil and am thinking that it is getting too hot.

Am I on the right track here? Do I need fatter wire now that I have a regulated mod that can crank out the watts?

Here you can see the under wick and over/behind wick. The front is still getting a little hot but I did hit it pretty hard once due to loose screws and it shot 8.5V (~50W) into my build.

*Ahem!* http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/599122-plume-veil-revisited.html

I have since re-wicked and instead of the stubby ends, draped that end just a touch under the coil. Sorry, no pix atm.

 

[atroph]

Thanks Jax!

I read that thread during a search for PV clone issues. I figured there was a support group for us and found the main thread. I did try wicking like that and many other ways as well which did not get rid of the harsh taste. I am ruling out the possibility that it is/was dirty ATM.

 

[atroph]

Quick update. Patriot is hitting like a champ. Not as productive as the PV but I expected that. The vape is outstanding as is shown above.

So I have two different theories and IMO a 60/40 chance that either one is the problem.

1. The juice. The juice just can't handle huge clouds at moderate power levels (say 15-25W). The chemically taste overpowers the flavors and makes it harsh. (Maybe too much nic @6 mg/mL?) I noticed on the Patriot that if I super flood the coil, deck, and all it starts to taste like the PV did. It is very very very minor in comparison and goes away after the first hit. I have tried 4 different flavors and all seem to be doing the same thing. Slightly harsh first hit (only) and the rest is superb (@18W). In my setups on the PV it produces so much "massy" vapor that it looks like it falls from the air (if that makes sense).

2. Dirty PV. The PV is soaking after another round of cleaning with nail polish remover and will test later on. I am leaning towards this not being the issue as the slightly harsh taste of the juice is the same and is present on the Patriot only 99% less.

I could possibly tweak the airflow on the PV and get it dialed in similar to the patriot but I do like the wide open draw. I figure it should do fine with wide open airflow, but maybe the juice isn't up to snuff per se.

Honestly IMO the patriot is out performing the PV in terms of vapeability and I may set the PV off to the side for now. I can get used to the tighter draw if it continues to perform this well. I do like that I can flood the deck to the rim and it doesn't leak and seems to vape just fine.

 

[Moonbogg]

I just stuffed a fresh, super tight wick into the kayfun and its working good. Amazing how tight you can stuff this stuff.

 

[f1vefour]

atroph if you run the same power on the Patriot does the juice become harsh like on the PV?

There is certainly juice that can't handle high wattage but I don't consider 25 watts to be excessively high and the chances of all four flavors being the same way are slim (unless it's the base).

If you run 25 watts on the Patriot and it has the same harshness then it's certainly the juice, but likely the PG content of the juice not the flavors. My suggestion in this case is try max VG liquid.

The way you describe the vapor I'm guessing your at 65/35 or 50/50 PG|VG.

 

[f1vefour]

I currently drip 65/35 PG|VG 24mg (usually @ 35 watts) and it's harsh as hell, I can drip 20/80 PG|VG in the same 24mg nic and it's about half as harsh.

 

[AquaLung22]

I'd just like to give a big thank you to Jeremy, and everyone whose contributed to this thread!!
... After reading some of this, I went and got a lifetime's supply (lol last box, only 1 size) from Sally's today.

So far, loving this stuff!! I've been rebuilding my protanks with cotton for a year now, and dripper's for over a month.. and this stuff rocks on my Helios!

Along with the great performance, it's much easier to work with than cotton too..
Can't wait to try it on my Aerotank2 with a nice microcoil next

 

[Blackl1sted]

OK I have a Taifun GT that I have run just over 60ml of MBV Black Ice through and snapped a pic this evening. I am running 1.5ohm @ around 11.4-11.6 watts on a Cloupor DNA-30. I am running this thing to see how long it will go. I'm not getting any off taste as of yet so I can see 100ml easy on this setup. Here is a pic.

Edit: I just noticed when looking at the pic that there seems to be a little rust on the coil. Is this a normal thing? Should I clean and dry burn this one?

 

[f1vefour]

I would replace the coil, it looks severely worn and oxidized. Pull the wick and reuse it since you're attempting to see how much mileage you can get out of it.

 

[jaxgator]

I just stuffed a fresh, super tight wick into the kayfun and its working good. Amazing how tight you can stuff this stuff.

That's what I liked so much about it. Well, that and the superior wicking properties and longevity as well.

With cotton, I always seemed to be using too much. With rayon, it is perfect. In fact, with rayon, you actually want it to be fairly tight. So much easier than cotton.

I think that is probably part of the problem others have had when switching from cotton to rayon. They don't use enough rayon because they are trying to wick with it like they did with cotton. One needs to relearn wicking when switching to rayon from cotton.

 

[JeremyR]

Nice blacklisted! I thought the tiafun gt would be a top performer with the wide chamber and straight juice flow.... If it vapes fine continue using it to see what happens.

I have seen a rust on coil. In the past before rayon I would use water in my juice and I thought it rusted my coils. It could also have something to do with the kanthal I have... Could be acid in the juice..?However it may not be rust, because that's like a little gunk of rust which doesn't make sense. That may be the way the juice gunks?

*Or it may just be the lighting in the picture. If it vapes good go for it!

But anyway you may be able to just lightly wipe it with a towel and have most of it come off easily.

 

[Moonbogg]

That's what I liked so much about it. Well, that and the superior wicking properties and longevity as well.

With cotton, I always seemed to be using too much. With rayon, it is perfect. In fact, with rayon, you actually want it to be fairly tight. So much easier than cotton.

I think that is probably part of the problem others have had when switching from cotton to rayon. They don't use enough rayon because they are trying to wick with it like they did with cotton. One needs to relearn wicking when switching to rayon from cotton.

I actually twisted it, pulled it tight and rolled it to make it compressed. I then let it spring back but kept it pulled pretty tight as I put it in the coil. I had to hold the coil firmly in place or else it would have just bent way out of shape. The wick is so dense it doesn't even look like the pictures you see here. It looks different. It is more narrow looking due to the density. Its so dense it doesn't fluff or frizz, but it wicks perfect. If cotton was that tight it would be instant dry hit.

 

[JeremyR]

Cool that can work. Rayon is extremely forgiving to density.

But the real pop of flavor and longevity with rayon is that sweet spot. Not saying you can't roll it and nail the density, its definitely possible. I just didn't have good luck doing it that way.

If it's too tight you'll just have premature gunking; iow you won't get even 30ml without gunking if it's too tight; even on a dripper.

Let us know how it works out. For all we know you may have got the right density and have it last a long time.