Hey Jeremy what brand of rayon are you using? The only one I seem to find is the cellucotton from Graham, and I keep finding a number of reviews stating that there was an off taste with it compared to cotton. I generally haven't had any problems with cotton wicking or flavor but also have nothing to compare it to so I'm curious about this rayon stuff.
Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!
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I don't find Rayon to add any taste at all.
If you have ever vaped generic cotton balls you'll know what taste is...
If you have ever vaped generic cotton balls you'll know what taste is...
Well rayon will saturate much more so the flavor can be a little different. Like drinking your juice instead of burning it.... We're not suppose to be burning just vaporizing.
Other reports are simply user error. Its not like cotton its different to work with and many out here have no direction on what to do with it.
I'm vaping sallys (aka cellucotton rayon) right now. I do prefer the rayon balls myself because the fiber has a little more spring to it, fluffier, from looking at it you can tell the Quality is slightly better.
I have some delascos that you can get from thier consumer catalog for $3.50. Its good.
They all work good.
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I have a theory on CelluCotton. My box was as all the others in the store closed with the plastic internal bag just twisted and laid over. No air or moisture tight. If a particular box is exposed to high humidity or chemical typical to a beauty shop it will absorb them. I don't think it is anything harmful but I never smelled women's hair chemicals that smelled like something I would want to vape (except for Cindycated's of course)
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I gotta be honest, there's something I'm not quite getting with Rayon.
I've used kohgendoh since forever, use it on my Erlkonigin and it works perfectly, lasts a well good amount of time. I bought some Graham's Rayon and although its wicking well and not giving an off taste, after a day with a juice that usually lasts days and days with japanese cotton (absinthe, anisee DIY), I can see a brownish tint coming out of the juice channels already... This happened a lot the last time I tried Rayon, like a year ago, I don't get what I'm doing wrong when people claim they use 100mls of juice without issue :/
I've used kohgendoh since forever, use it on my Erlkonigin and it works perfectly, lasts a well good amount of time. I bought some Graham's Rayon and although its wicking well and not giving an off taste, after a day with a juice that usually lasts days and days with japanese cotton (absinthe, anisee DIY), I can see a brownish tint coming out of the juice channels already... This happened a lot the last time I tried Rayon, like a year ago, I don't get what I'm doing wrong when people claim they use 100mls of juice without issue :/
200mls of juice at 6v 100vg tobacco juice... Vaping on my adv tank right now at 160ml and its just as good as at 20ml.
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You've used cotton too much and have not figured out how to use rayon.
Its a completely different animal.. There are some certain things that need to be figured out before you start having success. This does not work like cotton.
Old cotton habits quite honestly can be hard to break. This is like when you went from silica to cotton. (Took me a long time to get cotton down) Its not gonna just happen because your an expert with one wick material.
Although some users get it to work right away.
Now we didn't get much information about the wick other than your getting back flow.
Rayon responds instantly. Something as simple as having uneven tails can cause a change in wicking.
Back flow is usually because the tails are not thinned out. Where the wick curves down, take it and cut 75%+ of the rest of the thickness off. There will only be thin roots going down the wick guide.
The rayon should be molded/ trimmed into the exact shape you need not just laid out in a full piece, that rarely will work unless your under 15w
You have to control the way the juice flows. Cotton is basically a sponge, that will hold juice not transporting it to the coil, more your burning on the outside of the coil.
Rayon is a transport medium, that will deliver juice directly to the coil. When its wicked correctly you will be able to vape it long enough yo turn the rayon back to white before it really dry hits. This is when you know the density and fluid flow dynamics is correct
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You've used cotton too much and have not figured out how to use rayon.
Its a completely different animal.. There are some certain things that need to be figured out before you start having success. This does not work like cotton.
Old cotton habits quite honestly can be hard to break. This is like when you went from silica to cotton. (Took me a long time to get cotton down) Its not gonna just happen because your an expert with one wick material.
Although some users get it to work right away.
Now we didn't get much information about the wick other than your getting back flow.
Rayon responds instantly. Something as simple as having uneven tails can cause a change in wicking.
Back flow is usually because the tails are not thinned out. Where the wick curves down, take it and cut 75%+ of the rest of the thickness off. There will only be thin roots going down the wick guide.
The rayon should be molded/ trimmed into the exact shape you need not just laid out in a full piece, that rarely will work unless your under 15w
You have to control the way the juice flows. Cotton is basically a sponge, that will hold juice not transporting it to the coil, more your burning on the outside of the coil.
Rayon is a transport medium, that will deliver juice directly to the coil. When its wicked correctly you will be able to vape it long enough yo turn the rayon back to white before it really dry hits. This is when you know the density and fluid flow dynamics is correct
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Hi Jeremy,
Thank you for a quick direct response.
I have the trails super super thin as it's something that is needed on an atty like the Erlkonigin otherwise it's dry hit city. I just don't know how much I need to pack into the coil though, I am not getting dry hits, weird nutty flavor (like I've had before) or anything like that, it's wicking fine. I'm wondering if there's any specific shape I need the tails to have, like having it angle towards one point or something?
200mls of tobacco flavoured is absolutely insane. No offtaste coming from the coil? Wow.
After 5 mils everything taste like crap, regardless of wicking material. I need to learn this Zen-magic wicking technology you guys speak of that protects the coil from the forces of juice physics. OK, maybe that was a little sarcastic. I'm just having fun with you guys and expressing my shock at how far you go with a single build.
This next part is not a joke though, but its only my experience so take it for what its worth, or not worth. I use KGD only now. This is because of two bad experiences I had while using Rayon. The experiences were maybe a couple months apart from each other, and I talked about them briefly in other threads, but those experiences I can't forget and are the reason I can't go back to Rayon.
First experience: I almost passed out while vaping. That never happened with cotton. Coincidence? Maybe.
Second experience: I got so sick while vaping, that I had to lie down on the bathroom floor and wait for it to stop, and I was an inch away from calling 911. I was shaking, nauseous, felt weak etc and had a hard time breathing. This happened after vaping for a while with a fresh Rayon build, and after I started feeling sick, I stopped vaping and after about 10 long minutes or so, the sickness went away. Coincidence? Maybe.
I switched to KGD and have had zero bad experiences. None at all, no matter how hard I chain vape. I used to use sterile cotton and never had a bad experience with any of that. Is all this a huge coincidence? Maybe. Will I ever use Rayon again? Not a chance.
This next part is not a joke though, but its only my experience so take it for what its worth, or not worth. I use KGD only now. This is because of two bad experiences I had while using Rayon. The experiences were maybe a couple months apart from each other, and I talked about them briefly in other threads, but those experiences I can't forget and are the reason I can't go back to Rayon.
First experience: I almost passed out while vaping. That never happened with cotton. Coincidence? Maybe.
Second experience: I got so sick while vaping, that I had to lie down on the bathroom floor and wait for it to stop, and I was an inch away from calling 911. I was shaking, nauseous, felt weak etc and had a hard time breathing. This happened after vaping for a while with a fresh Rayon build, and after I started feeling sick, I stopped vaping and after about 10 long minutes or so, the sickness went away. Coincidence? Maybe.
I switched to KGD and have had zero bad experiences. None at all, no matter how hard I chain vape. I used to use sterile cotton and never had a bad experience with any of that. Is all this a huge coincidence? Maybe. Will I ever use Rayon again? Not a chance.
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It's juice dependent to a certain extent. I vape extracted tobaccos, and change out my wicks ever 5 - 10mls too. I don't always need to change out the rayon, but it's become part of my cleaning/re-wicking cycle.
I may be one of the select few that will actually use up all 500ft of my Rayon.
I may be one of the select few that will actually use up all 500ft of my Rayon.
In the simplest terms, you had a nic overdose.
As I stated in the open post of this thread, I vaped 12 mg for a year and could chain vape it without ever vetting nic sick..
As soon as I took that first 3 hits with rayon wick, I had a strong nic rush. Or increased nic hit, (title of the thread).. I reduced my nicotine by 33% to 8mg, and if I chain I can get a satisfing nic buzz if I want. But at this level I don't get OD. If I was still vaping 12 it would be a different story.. The coil, power, and Atty were exactly the same.
So reduce your nic by 33+% and it won't happen.
Its not a coincidence, the nic got to you..The nic delivery and juice delivery with rayon is increased by 33-40% its that much more efficient.
Now why that's a bad thing I don't know. But understand what happened was not really from the rayon but the nic... So if its too much for you to reduce your nic then stay with cotton because the delivery is weaker.
What mg do you vape? Do you diy?
Oh FYI if you get nic OD take a spoon Of sugar and let it desolve in your mouth. This will speed the nic through your system. For a light OD you can drink a cocacola
Oh at 160ml, no bad taste, its probably 90% of the quality of a new wick.
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It's juice dependent to a certain extent. I vape extracted tobaccos, and change out my wicks ever 5 - 10mls too. I don't always need to change out the rayon, but it's become part of my cleaning/re-wicking cycle.
I may be one of the select few that will actually use up all 500ft of my Rayon.
hahaha, prolly me too ~ I rewick with every tank fill
Every 6ml (Erlkonigin).
Both events happened at 12mg. I have moved down to 6mg recently, but I've been too afraid to try the Rayon again. Logically I know the Rayon might be clean, but the fear is in my head because of what happened and I can't remove it. I'm too afraid to try it now the sickness was far too great.
Not even any gunk build up on my last at 180ml. A very thin layer is all. I also use a spaced coil.
Well its sounds like your close actually. Most likely it has to do with how the full wick at the top is trimmed. It could be condensation comming down from the chamber walls. Does it look thinner than your juice. That would be the giveaway.
Sounds like you need to work on the trim at the top. Cut it so its the same shape as the chamber top. Curved and either touching the wall well to block run back - or not touching, not sure I don't have one.
See how the rayon is dried to white when I need to redrip... PV, 1.3, 28g, 6v
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