SF may be first City to Ban E-cigs

[muth]

hell yes they have to move out ..California is bleeding people, if it wasn't for illegal immigrants the population of the state would implode, it has become a third world cesspool with a small extremley wealthy community along the coast being catered to by very poor, and the interior of the state which is working poor or lower middle class.

This is where our country is heading if the top 1% keeps having their way. How sad that what was once the greatest social experiment, the Middle Class, which turned this country into a prosperous powerhouse, is now a vanishing dream. Sad, indeed. And there's no one entity to blame save greed.

 

[WillyZee]

it's the reason I have been prepared for the Vapocalypse for 5 years now... and I mean the true Vapocalypse, where absolutely nothing is available on the open market.

Open tank vaping will definitely be eliminated... highly taxable locked down vape pods are the only vape they will tolerate.

and the Pod systems will also be labeled as harmful as smoking... that way, they can charge very high taxes disguised as a method of getting folks off the evil vape.

vaping will also become more expensive than smoking.

 

[muth]

it's the reason I have been prepared for the Vapocalypse for 5 years now... and I mean the true Vapocalypse, where absolutely nothing is available on the open market.

Open tank vaping will definitely be eliminated... highly taxable locked down vape pods are the only vape they will tolerate.

and the Pod systems will also be labeled as harmful as smoking... that way, they can charge very high taxes disguised as a method of getting folks off the evil vape.

Vaping will also become more expensive than smoking.

Same thing they did to cigarettes. Seems to me there's going to be a push/pull between the government and big tobacco. BT jumped in on the vape game to cash in on the profits. What will be their strategy if government attacks that, too?

 

[RayofLight62]

I once was told that there is a number of wealth and pension funds that, decades ago, had placed huge sums into tobacco-baked investment vehicles. These investments were not supposed to fold - as they did, as a conseguences of the phenomenal expansion of vaping.
I don't think they can put the genie back in the bottle; they need to restructure those vehicles.

 

[VHRB2014]

The homeless are attracted to communism like rats to a....

Okay that's a horrible analogy so I will stop.

Anna

Actually, the rat takes the cheese because he thinks its free. Its an analogy entirely too simple for some.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

This is where our country is heading if the top 1% keeps having their way. How sad that what was once the greatest social experiment, the Middle Class, which turned this country into a prosperous powerhouse, is now a vanishing dream. Sad, indeed. And there's no one entity to blame save greed.

It's easy to blame the top 1% and they are without doubt the authors of destorying the republic, but the reality is, in California, that the majority of the upper middle class have profited from and participate in the explotaion of the poor and the blue collar working class, they consistently have voted for massive floods of illegal labor and they hire illegal labor ,Which has flooded the labor market and driven wages down and made the few scraps left for the working class fewer and fewer... they try and hide it behind a smoke screen of virtue signaling rhetoric, but at the end of the day, they are not fooling anyone..it's all about them choosing to either hire an American and pay a living wage, or hire an illegal alien for less money and be able to take that ski trip to Aspen during Christmas break......that is not some Wall Street conspiracy that is the reality of how the white collar upper middle class operate on a daily basis...and despite the immense wealth of California and the fact it is the Mecca of American liberalisim California has the greatest disparity between the haves and have nots, the fact any California politician can stand up on a national stage and lecture America on income inequality is laughable, and a charade.

 

[oplholik]

around here, I'm told that the laborers you get at the local Home Depot want 20 dollars an hour now.

 

[Zazie]

Good for them.

 

[Eskie]

Same thing they did to cigarettes. Seems to me there's going to be a push/pull between the government and big tobacco. BT jumped in on the vape game to cash in on the profits. What will be their strategy if government attacks that, too?

Buy a new government.

 

[kross8]

nicotine - addictive? Yes except it doesn't cause cancer like the media wants you to think

Sugar on the otherhand is just as addictive if not more and will lead to other major medical health problems eventually most likely

When I think about nicotine's impact on me,,,, it relaxes me. Sugar gets you all hyper,,,,, hhhhmmmm... I'm thinking teenagers may be less likely to shoot up schools and each other under the influence on nicotine.

So everytime the teenage vaping drama talk starts up ask them if they are just as concerned about the sugar addicted radical teens.

 

[kross8]

yes and no...financially they want us to keep smoking, they get the pay off from the tobacco companies in the law suit, and they also get bribes from the tobacco industry,vaping they will hand over to one of the big tobacco corporations, but it goes beyond all that...the political class hate vaping because it works..it is not simple corruption at work here...vaping was not created by the govermenrt, or a globalist corporation,it was not bankrolled by the banks..it was created by small groups of creative, ingenious, passionate, INDIVIDUALS in their garages, and shops, and kitchen tables, and they built it into a multibillion dollar industry....the vapers themselves did not wait for a goverment report on the saftey of vaping...they used the avaiable science and COMMON SENSE.they did not bow to fear but sprang toward freedom and creativity ...vaping is a monumental exposure of the lie, that we need the goverment...that they are concerned about us, that they help us....vaping turned us from subjects into free thinking people and it worked,,WE the vaping community made one of the most important health breakthroughs in a century by ourselves working together and supporting each other......and the goverments, and the UN and the experts, and the college proffesors hate our guts for that...we acted without their consent or their control....that is what makes vaping important to me.

Damn! Damn straight!

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Heey Equality....that's a nice thought and some of your argument is definitely applicable but attack due to hatred?...sorry I don't buy that idea. Simply put, if that were true then the powers that be would have been against other things that were created by individuals which then became mainstream.

And there are too many numerous examples where that clearly didn't happen....to be really honest, when you're looking in at the US from outside it really is totally bizarre and don't forget that in part one would expect that because you are a very young political system compared to others...it takes a long time for a political system to gradually iron out their mistakes over millennia!!

Happy vaping

We are not a very young political system we are an ancient political system we are a Republic and our founders studied the Roman Republic, they were educated men..Our system is the flower of Westeren thought we were the evolution of the direction of where Westeren thought was going...so much so that after our revolution from the English Monarchy the movement that WE started was to change the face of europe and it was soon after our breaking the chains of the English Monarchy that republics were to sprout up all over Europe,Including France, ( which makes our Republic older than yours)..and Europe evolved from fuedalisim.
Yes the established order does hate us, They hate a free internet, they hate free speech, they hate ballot boxes... just as the English Monarchy hated the US or the Irish, just as the French aristocray hated the people that stormed the Bastille just as Nicholas hated the Bolsheviks ...the elite feel they have a God given right to rule over the masses and when the masses rise up the ruling elite don't offer dialouge, they don't offer debate, they don't offer negotiations usually they offer guns and bayonets.the ruling elite do not feel the common man has either the right or ability to govern themselves they felt that way 300 years ago they feel the exact same way if not more so today.The concept of self rule by the governed is not the common experince of human history it is the exception, and it always is under threat....Perhaps you could enlighten me on exactlly which of your venerable and ancient political systems have as you put it.."ironed out there mistakes" that We Americans can learn from them .because from looking as An American out at the rest of the world...it seems....there sure a helluva alot of you guys that want to move here...

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Ok I knew that that statement wasn't going to be popular

But really you've just proved my point....a more experienced democracy would have made some changes to an out of date constitution when needed. But hey I don't want to go any further with that statement

Here is a quote from a historical source concerning the British parliament.

''In 1215, the tenants-in-chief secured Magna Carta from King John, which established that the king may not levy or collect any taxes (except the feudal taxes to which they were hitherto accustomed), save with the consent of his royal council, which gradually developed into a parliament''.

The US didn't exist then....this is what I mean't to point out and looking at the statement above jeez was the government flawed and not anything like the democratic country the UK is today. Lots of learning the hard way and making mistakes has been the path which necessarily creates wisdom for all.

No offence mean't

In what Universe is England a democratic country? As for France LOL....have you put out the fires in Paris yet...Last I read Macron was threatening his own citizens with military force.....start there and get back to me when you "iron out your mistakes"....LOL

 

[Equality 7-2521]

FWIW in October 1967 an effigy of a true hippie was buried in the pan handle of Golden Gate Park (near Haight-Ashbury) to signify the end of their era. In part because the radical Youth International Party was forming (the Yippies) that lead to the riots, etc in the Bay Area and elsewhere in 1968 and beyond.

View attachment 804593 View attachment 804595 View attachment 804597

If you were street wise SF was not what I would call dangerous, but rather just a place to be heads up and aware of your surroundings. Until I met my lady there I was on the prowl more often than not alone at any time day or night there every weekend in the city no problems at all. Oakland was considered the most dangerous area in the Bay Area the years I was there by most folks (gangs, Angels, Panthers). But to me they were not a concern either because back then if you gave respect on the streets you got back respect. It also might of helped that I was big, strong and fearless... but diplomacy if given the chance was the smart choice.

Yeah I like Oakland alot.

 

[Spydro]

Yeah I like Oakland alot.

I didn't have any problem at all with Oakland myself. But some of my friends were uneasy if there late at night unless I was along. Thinking back I remember some hang outs there I went to off and on... Jack London Square; JAX Coffee International and a couple of movie theaters and a bar (on Broadway near 14th); for about 3 months the Trolley Station to get back and forth across the bridge to SF when I didn't have a car; the Oakland Roadster Shows at the Coliseum; The Speed Boat Races at Bay Farm Island; Lake Merritt, Lake Chabot and the Oakland Hills... even shopped sometimes at a Montgomery Wards down around High Street and E 14th IIRC. Also remember grabbing a quick bite to eat at a Doggie Dinner along either Broadway or Telegraph on the way to the TS or on out to UC Berkeley. My favorite seafood place in the East Bay was Spengers in Berkeley (and a crusty old Sea Captains Bar near there under the University off ramp on the waterfront that had killer Irish Coffee while waiting for a table to eat). Spenger's was the oldest restaurant in Berkeley. Sadly I heard it closed for good last year. So unless Grotto No 9 or Alioto's is still open on Fishermans Wharf I have no reason to ever visit the Bay Area again.

 

[Katya]

I once was told that there is a number of wealth and pension funds that, decades ago, had placed huge sums into tobacco-baked investment vehicles. These investments were not supposed to fold - as they did, as a conseguences of the phenomenal expansion of vaping.
I don't think they can put the genie back in the bottle; they need to restructure those vehicles.

I apologize for quoting myself, but it saves time... This is what I wrote in 2015:

CALIFORNIA VAPERS: Things are getting ugly...

"States have borrowed against tobacco tax revenue
Sales are increasing to companies not paying into the MSA
Cigarette shipments declined by an above average 6.45% in 2010, following a 9.2% decline in 2009. MSA receipts declined by 5.6% in 2011. The revenue reductions forced California to need debt reserves to meet full interest and minimum serial bond principal repayments for 2011. Since then it has not gotten any better!"

I attended an awards ceremony a few months ago (Academy of Pediatrics). Every speaker mentioned decreasing revenues for public health programs that used to be funded by tobacco taxes (see California Proposition 10 (1998) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.) One speaker (a pulmonologist ) suggested (jokingly, of course) putting cigarette vending machines in schools. Everybody laughed.

I witnessed it myself--true story. So yes, they all know what's going on. The Academy of Pediatrics, the ACS, ALA, CDC, FDA, HHS...

 

[Katya]

I'm thinking teenagers may be less likely to shoot up schools and each other under the influence on nicotine.

I've got good news for you--many, if not most, "vaping" teenagers and college students, at least in California, don't use nicotine eliquids in their vape pens; they prefer that other substance we are not allowed to mention here. Everybody knows that, including teachers and possibly the FDA. Teachers are complaining about stoned kids falling asleep in school. But the substance is perfectly legal here (not for underage kids, though), and it's almost impossible to tell what exactly is in a tank or pod--short of smelling the vapor.

I'm very disappointed that Gottlieb never even mentioned it when he started his crackdown on underage vaping. He must know, but he's blaming nicotine and nicotine addiction--not a word about that other addiction and impaired kids trying to learn and driving under the influence...

 

[Katya]

it will be banned globally within 10 years, governments are losing too much money on all those people stopping smoking overpriced tobacco...

Nah, they'll start taxing vapor products like they tax tobacco.

 

[charlie1465]

We are not a very young political system we are an ancient political system we are a Republic and our founders studied the Roman Republic, they were educated men..Our system is the flower of Westeren thought we were the evolution of the direction of where Westeren thought was going...so much so that after our revolution from the English Monarchy the movement that WE started was to change the face of europe and it was soon after our breaking the chains of the English Monarchy that republics were to sprout up all over Europe,Including France, ( which makes our Republic older than yours)..and Europe evolved from fuedalisim.
Yes the established order does hate us, They hate a free internet, they hate free speech, they hate ballot boxes... just as the English Monarchy hated the US or the Irish, just as the French aristocray hated the people that stormed the Bastille just as Nicholas hated the Bolsheviks ...the elite feel they have a God given right to rule over the masses and when the masses rise up the ruling elite don't offer dialouge, they don't offer debate, they don't offer negotiations usually they offer guns and bayonets.the ruling elite do not feel the common man has either the right or ability to govern themselves they felt that way 300 years ago they feel the exact same way if not more so today.The concept of self rule by the governed is not the common experince of human history it is the exception, and it always is under threat....Perhaps you could enlighten me on exactlly which of your venerable and ancient political systems have as you put it.."ironed out there mistakes" that We Americans can learn from them .because from looking as An American out at the rest of the world...it seems....there sure a helluva alot of you guys that want to move here...

Oh, Ok...wow i'll try and respond....

Let's just remind ourselves what started this conversation...it was the statement that I found a lot of the new regs coming out of America completely bonkers!! And that the kindest reason for this, I could come up with, was corruption.

@Equality 7-2521 You're obviously a very patriotic guy and nothing wrong with that but you do need to accept that the USA is a young political system. Am I patriotic....err....a bit, am I nationalistic.....err....definitely not. I personally think that my birth country (UK) is extremely flawed and my patriotism is mostly nostalgia. I live in France for a reason...it's quite simply a better country than mine (oh and the weather down in the south is better ) Is there any country existant that has got it all worked out? No but IMO France has got it more worked out than some....certainly than my country of birth.

There is more to the collective consciousness of a particular nation than the teachings that exist in an individual lifetime....but rather the constructs that we think and live with are in part due to an understanding of certain facts and principles which have been passed down through generation. And yes I do mean from as long ago as 1066 or further! This can and does effect all our behaviours today and it is in this sense that I mean that the USA is young. It is in know way a political attack or hatred for you or any other country for that matter. Patriotism is in itself a learned behaviour and oft suits the governing entity as a means of population control and should be understood as such lest it is the cause of bad things happening. I'm constantly surprised and alarmed how people seem to walk around with such simplistic and 'blinkered' constructs in their heads without even realising it...it is this type of human thought process that leads to nationalistic fervour and sometimes abhorrent collective actions.

Anyway I really hope that makes sense to you whilst at the same time giving you further need for questioning and self checking of yourself, the people around you and, by default the whole political consciousness because it is only this that can further and develop existing constructs into something better

Right.... now back to the vaping regs and the bonkers laws that america keeps coming up with. I've been around for over 50 years and have consequently seen many health and safety regulations passed and campaigns released and never once have i thought they were illogical or 'bonkers'. Anti-smoking campaigns, traffic safety campaigns, drug regulation (debatable in some cases), speed cameras etc.

Look at the UK today and their attitude towards vaping...they've taken the logical and pragmatic view and are certainly not introducing draconian legislation to penalise it. So, do we accept that there must be something else, in the USA causing it? Believe me when you're on the outside looking in it is just simply, well 'bonkers'....I don't know what else to call it and it is that fact that makes me conclude it is probably money incentives related (corruption) especially with your lobbying regulations.

Happy vaping I'm not the enemy you know

 

[Opinionated]

I've got good news for you--many, if not most, "vaping" teenagers and college students, at least in California, don't use nicotine eliquids in their vape pens; they prefer that other substance we are not allowed to mention here. Everybody knows that, including teachers and possibly the FDA. Teachers are complaining about stoned kids falling asleep in school. But the substance is perfectly legal here (not for underage kids, though), and it's almost impossible to tell what exactly is in a tank or pod--short of smelling the vapor.

I'm very disappointed that Gottlieb never even mentioned it when he started his crackdown on underage vaping. He must know, but he's blaming nicotine and nicotine addiction--not a word about that other addiction and impaired kids trying to learn and driving under the influence...

You know, I never even thought about that, but your correct. Use of an e cigarette by no means indicates how it's being used and I think all those surveys do is ask if they have used an electronic cigarette..

look how many come here asking about gear for just that purpose - the other purpose.

definitely something to think about.