Should ECF staff be doing more to keep its members?

[MickeyRat]

I agree the classies are off topic. Whiskey I consider you a friend but, I'm not sure I see the same things you do. I've had some lively discussions with mods in OUTSIDE and never got in trouble. I'm pretty sure some of the things I said about that APV thing weren't entirely appreciated and I didn't get any trouble about that. They have to keep spam out and keep a tight rein on the vendors though I can imagine that one chafes a bit.

About the only time I've seen it get a little on the rude side was in a thread asking about whether mods (they haven't convinced me on that APV thing yet) looked like pipes for smoking an illicit substance. In that one, I could see why the moderator was getting frustrated. People weren't taking the intervention well. I understand the need for the policy and I don't need it explained. However, the intervention is tough to watch sometimes. It's a natural question to ask.

My only other complaint is that .......... is censored. I just typed ali express as a single word. It's a site that is designed to allow people to deal with Chinese wholesale vendors directly and if you buy in quantity, you can get some good deals on some things including PV stuff. It's so loaded with engleese it's hard to know what they are selling at times and pretty much at your own risk. However, I can't see any reason to censor that site except to benefit the vendors over the members.

 

[Yelsew Skraps]

Nope, not directed at you Whiskey more toward your original post related to questions about performance of the forum and trying to tie that back to expense (again not related to you personally). Probably poorly constructed, but my intent was to indicate that if performance is the issue the only way to "vote" it better is to pay for it and the more that do pay the more that can be done. I did make a jump on my own as it seems maybe you were meaning the way ECF staff relates to members and I was looking at only actual performance of the software (thinking that is the root cause in this instance as if performance was good there would be no need to question it).

 

[Stosh]

I will likely get flamed or jumped on for this, but..... Typically when I read a complaint I glance at the items listed above the avatar, if it does not say "Supporting Member" I don't give the comment much thought. ......

In no way a flame, but I would love to be a supporting member, but don't use pay-pal or any payment methods not covered under strict government regulations for liability. I've had problems with vendors (non-ECF / non-vaping related) and want the long arm of the law on my side. Been on line since bulletin boards and Arpanet, no problems with viruses or identity / CC theft.

I would be happy to send a check to whomever or wherever but I have non-negotiable ground rules for on-line transactions, and personal finance privacy.

 

[DaveP]

For those of you who don't know Whiskey, she's good people. I don't know exactly what the issues are, but I'm sure she's explained enough to the mods to make them aware of the ones that she has witnessed.

Whiskey, did I misunderstand or wasn't this thread just to give others a chance to comment on how the board could be improved by recognizing the issues that people would like to have addressed? Anyway, that's the way I understood it.

ETA: My own personal issue concerns validating a membership are similar to others I've heard. I went through Paypal, which I am a member of and they wanted more financial information than I was willing to give, so I passed on the opportunity. Paypal already has access to my credit card and that should be enough. PP won't get my bank account numbers. If validation could be less intrusive, then maybe I would comply. I'm willing to have my bank send a letter, but not one that lists account numbers. I don't think they would do that, anyway. They blank out all but the last four digits on things they send ME! A credit check should be sufficient.

 

[potholerepairman]

kinda lost here here myself, read the thread thruout but still do not see what its about , may the tide make it smooth and if not may the bumps be electric not toxic.

 

[elbertdee]

Well, umm

I am new here and so there are many things I am sure I have missed.
For my short stay I can say the ECF board is one of the best Ive ever been on.

I don' know how many members there are , but performance for me has been good.

Guess I don't do enough to even know who the mods are or what their job is.
Never been a big forum person for a variety of reasons.

I can say in the last month I have spent 10 times more time here than facebook and with a much better experience.
But Im old and just don't really get social networking.

When you have a bunch of people together issues are going to come up.

From this humans perspective things here are good.
Ill now sit back and keep track of this thread so I can find out what I have been missing.

 

[Stosh]

elbertdee, you haven't been missing anything... everyone of us wish that ECF was as fast as the computers on TV or in the movies, but this is real life.....

I've never been flamed for any post I've made, never had a mod come down on me,
(guess thinking before you hit post does help )

I've learned a lot about new products, and passed on whatever experience I can for the older stuff I use.
Try to use humor when posting to have fun, after all we may be quitting smoking but we don't have nicotine fits, so civility should be easy....

 

[cags]

If I read "Bump for a good friend & nice person" in the Classifieds one more time, I think I'm going to vomit. ...........

oh wow, I totally agree with this! I'm also on the vomit train when comments are made about the "good price". even if the price is 3 times what it cost new. if we can't comment on the price being outrageous then I don't think any comments on price should be allowed at all. however I know this would cause more work for the mods.

also, one or two of the mods are scary and seem grumpy in general. I'm an old lady and don't like being scared on the other hand there are a few members here who are so rude but are still here ! btw, so far I have not received a spanking, managing to keep my nose clean

all that being said however, you don't see me on the "mean" forum <g>

 

[muzichead]

Dude (Dudette?), ya just said it, you choose not to comply! Sorry, but this is not a gov domain (thank goodness!) and ya have to play by the owners ground rules. And, I'm probably more particular than you as to whom I $ell my items and from whom I buy!

I was just putting forth some input as to what the OP had posted, (Should ECF staff be doing more to keep its members?)..... That was it.... Wasn't being rude to anyone.... I don't think your condescending remark is appropriate here either.... I am very particular as to who sees any of my personal info and that is the way I would like to keep it.... This is a forum, not a place of business.... I can understand not being able to make a post in the classifieds, but to keep people from even viewing them, I think was the wrong decision..... Please do keep in mind this is "MY OPINION" though.....

 

[cags]

I will likely get flamed or jumped on for this, but..... Typically when I read a complaint I glance at the items listed above the avatar, if it does not say "Supporting Member" I don't give the comment much thought. ...........

I was going to subscribe in jan. but. a mod upset me so I decided if I was at risk of being moved on I didn't want to have paid....
now that I am over it, we've had unexpected medical bills come up and I'm not able to spend money at the moment. so you never know why someone hasn't subscribed..

 

[six]

if it does not say "Supporting Member" I don't give the comment much thought.

Not a flame, but worth mentioning that everyone who posts does indeed support ECF. ECF owns our posts and uses them for content, google rankings, and therefore traffic.

Log out of your user account and browse the forum. You'll notice quite a lot of advertizing that you don't see when you are logged in. Now, look at the bottom of the main forum page to notice how many members and how many guests are on the site. All of those guests are viewing that advertizing you just saw... and pretty much every moment of every day, there are about 5 to 10% more guests on the forum than there are members logged in.

So, when I provide content like this, I am indeed helping to support ECF. And, the value of each of my posts that google indexes has the potential to exceed the 24 bucks or whatever it is "Supporting Members" pay. The best thing any of us can do is try to continue providing quality content.

That also happens to be exactly why ECF has the policies it has. It's why ECF staff do what they do. It's why they respond to different issues the way they do. I don't see them trying to chase away any members because they are in the continuing content business. Without members, they have no continuing content.

 

[elbertdee]

cags

What youngn has been rude to you.
Point me too them.

I have good words for youngns that are rude to us older/elder people especially granmas.

I do understand the unexpected bills preventing other things from happening.

Bump ?
que es Bump

 

[MAlzado]

I am still at a loss as to why the classifieds and co-op section is closed to non verified members!!! I "choose" not to be verified as I am very particular as to who I share my private info with... I don't know any of the moderators or administrators of this forum. Is that a reason as to bar me, (or anyone else), from a part of the forum? If a seller or trader decides not to deal with me it should be their prerogative...not the forum moderators or administrators!!! This is the latest thing that has me upset by the forum and yes, I have thought about leaving said forum because of this... My privacy is "MY PRIVACY"...

+1

I will likely get flamed or jumped on for this, but..... Typically when I read a complaint I glance at the items listed above the avatar, if it does not say "Supporting Member" I don't give the comment much thought. In the same way when someone wants to discuss politics and then says, "but hey I will not waste my time voting", well don't waste my time complaining about it then. So I know I many will not like it but with all the accolades about the site but not enough (IMHO) wanting to help out with $24 a year to make things better...... for me "that dog don't hunt". For those that do support the forum financially thank you.

Disagree

If that was for me Yels, I am, and have been, and Will always be a supporting member..I truly believe in ECF with all my heart..but
none the less, for me that makes no difference, supporting member or not, when it comes to what my main points are here at the start of this thread. Members are important, no matter if they are a supporting member or not.

+1

I was just putting forth some input as to what the OP had posted, (Should ECF staff be doing more to keep its members?)..... That was it.... Wasn't being rude to anyone.... I don't think your condescending remark is appropriate here either.... I am very particular as to who sees any of my personal info and that is the way I would like to keep it.... This is a forum, not a place of business....

Disagree

I do agree with Whiskey. I love this place too, but feel many of the most experienced members are moving to other forums largely due to micro-management and a perceived lack of judicial consistency/fairness:
IMO, some of this forum's moderators could tone back the PUBLIC authoritarianism a little. Every difference doesn't have to end with a public show of mod power. I think that publicly, moderators should be... moderate. I know mods have to deal with some real knuckleheads as well; sure, run those types up the flagpole. But I have read too many posts where some minor thing turned into a "How dare you question me!!! If you don't like it, go somewhere else!" public humiliation by a mod.

Many rules are too dynamic and vaguely defined. "Spoiling for a fight" is a classic example. I've seen this little catch-all "interpreted" far beyond reason.

And finally...some punishments in my opinion, are absolutely draconian. LIFETIME BAN??? Really? For words? LIFE??? It is widely known that forum management will not hesitate to pull the trigger on this gun for relatively little.

Like I said, I love ECF. And I dearly hope it remains my primary forum. After a year or 2, I've made friends here. They are valuable to me and I wish I were more confident that they would be here tomorrow. I am (was) also a supporting member, but I just cancelled it because of the increasing number of occurrences, rule changes, rule additions, & interpretative micro-management policies I don't support or can't keep up with.

And after hearing certain mods tell members who questioned them "If you don't like it then go somewhere else." that's exactly what I did; I registered at a couple other forums. NOT because I don't like it here, but because I feel my membership is of very little value to management.

I am posting this in the hopes that it may, in some small way, help this forum, and NOT to question the authority of any moderator. J0ker, for whom I have the utmost respect, has told me how ECF has grown so fast, so quickly, that I understand managing it must be a monumental task. I couldn't do his job.

I'm sure for every experienced, old school member who goes elsewhere, twenty noobs replace him. The mods are the boss but I still believe it would boost morale if mods and members would BOTH behave as though the other were standing right there in front of them, and that discipline, when necessary, should be private, FAIR, and commensurate with the offense. In other words, moderate.

 

[jkmtwo]

I will likely get flamed or jumped on for this, but..... Typically when I read a complaint I glance at the items listed above the avatar, if it does not say "Supporting Member" I don't give the comment much thought. In the same way when someone wants to discuss politics and then says, "but hey I will not waste my time voting", well don't waste my time complaining about it then. So I know I many will not like it but with all the accolades about the site but not enough (IMHO) wanting to help out with $24 a year to make things better...... for me "that dog don't hunt". For those that do support the forum financially thank you.

This is my favorite post in this thread thus far, only because of how hilarious I find the reasoning behind it.

Many people don't vote not for laziness or for not caring, I for one will most likely sit out this years election because after all, as a thinking American I have the right to vote for the lesser of two evils I also have the right to not vote for the lesser of two evils. And i still plan on using my 1st ammendmant right to criticize the President, whoever he may be, because, afterall this is America, and we still have a right to do so.

Point being, the fact that you would base soley whether or not a persons opinion holds weight or not based on 2 words under their screen name, well it smacks of bigotry honestly.

But that is your right, as it is my right to criticize, that said, it seems more prudent to judge a post by the content therein, not by those 2 words, just saying.

EDIT: After reading this, I realize that some of my sarcasm may be interpreted as flame worthy, let me clarify I'm not calling anyone a biggot I was merely trying to be a little funny and play off of the old saying from MLK about the content of a mans character.

 

[oldsoldier]

I do agree with Whiskey. I love this place too, but feel many of the most experienced members are moving to other forums largely due to micro-management and a perceived lack of judicial consistency/fairness:

These perceptions will always be in place because the staff does not air dirty laundry on a regular basis. There is often way more than meets the eye.

If a member feels that an infraction was unjustly given they do have the option of contacting me through email or PM.

IMO, some of this forum's moderators could tone back the PUBLIC authoritarianism a little. Every difference doesn't have to end with a public show of mod power. I think that publicly, moderators should be... moderate. I know mods have to deal with some real knuckleheads as well; sure, run those types up the flagpole. But I have read too many posts where some minor thing turned into a "How dare you question me!!! If you don't like it, go somewhere else!" public humiliation by a mod.

Many rules are too dynamic and vaguely defined. "Spoiling for a fight" is a classic example. I've seen this little catch-all "interpreted" far beyond reason.

For each public display of Mod authority there are many many privately handled ones. In many cases the conscious decision to publicly exercise the moderator authority is a calculated response to make the point clear and stop the unwanted behavior. Kind of like how people slow down when they see the state troopers have pulled someone over for speeding.

Again if you think that a mod has overstepped there are systems in place for you to address your concern. Complaining in the thread is not the correct response -- contacting the moderator or an admin with a well phrased inquiry is the proper response, and much more likely to get a favorable response.

And finally...some punishments in my opinion, are absolutely draconian. LIFETIME BAN??? Really? For words? LIFE??? It is widely known that forum management will not hesitate to pull the trigger on this gun for relatively little.

You are entitled to your opinion. The fact is that most "lifetime bans" can be reversed and many people have come back to ECF after being permabanned. Reinstatements are done on a case by case basis, but the fact remains that some people refuse to follow the rules in place here and thus are not welcome to be part of the community.

Like I said, I love ECF. And I dearly hope it remains my primary forum. After a year or 2, I've made friends here. They are valuable to me and I wish I were more confident that they would be here tomorrow. I am (was) also a supporting member, but I just cancelled it because of the increasing number of occurrences, rule changes, rule additions, & interpretative micro-management policies I don't support or can't keep up with.

And after hearing certain mods tell members who questioned them "If you don't like it then go somewhere else." that's exactly what I did; I registered at a couple other forums, because I feel that my membership here is increasingly fragile.

The truth is simple, if someone cannot follow the simple rules in place here then they are indeed welcome to go elsewhere. Sure there are a lot of rules and they change as people find new ways to abuse each other and the forum. There are thousands of members here that post daily without ever running afoul of the rules. The truth is with exception of the signature rules (minor and easily corrected if violated) and the supplier rules you don't even need to read the rules in order to survive on ECF. Common sense and learning to step away from the keyboard if you've had too much to drink or see someone you despise posting in a thread is enough to survive infraction free on ECF.

I am posting this in the hopes that it may, in some small way, help this forum, and NOT to question the authority of any moderator. J0ker, for whom I have the utmost respect, has told me how ECF has grown so fast, so quickly, that I understand managing it must be a monumental task. I couldn't do his job.

I'm sure for every experienced, old school member who goes elsewhere, twenty noobs replace him. The mods are the boss but I still believe it would boost morale if mods and members would BOTH behave as though the other were standing right there in front of them, and that discipline should be private, FAIR, and commensurate with the offense.

some stats as of this writing:

Members: 89,622
banned members : 4,092 The vast majority of these are spammers and unregistered suppliers. (approximately 1400 of these are multiple accounts from the bad old days- forum wars etc)
members in the sin bin (3day ban): 0
Suspended members (7 day ban): 0

I think the stats speak for themselves.

 

[whiskey]

For those of you who don't know Whiskey, she's good people. I don't know exactly what the issues are, but I'm sure she's explained enough to the mods to make them aware of the ones that she has witnessed.

Whiskey, did I misunderstand or wasn't this thread just to give others a chance to comment on how the board could be improved by recognizing the issues that people would like to have addressed? Anyway, that's the way I understood it.

ETA: My own personal issue concerns validating a membership are similar to others I've heard. I went through Paypal, which I am a member of and they wanted more financial information than I was willing to give, so I passed on the opportunity. Paypal already has access to my credit card and that should be enough. PP won't get my bank account numbers. If validation could be less intrusive, then maybe I would comply. I'm willing to have my bank send a letter, but not one that lists account numbers. I don't think they would do that, anyway. They blank out all but the last four digits on things they send ME! A credit check should be sufficient.

Yes that is originally why I started the thread...suggestions/ideas on how to better the tone with the members...thanks for you post Dave!!

 

[whiskey]

+1

Disagree

+1
Disagree

I do agree with Whiskey. I love this place too, but feel many of the most experienced members are moving to other forums largely due to micro-management and a perceived lack of judicial consistency/fairness:
IMO, some of this forum's moderators could tone back the PUBLIC authoritarianism a little. Every difference doesn't have to end with a public show of mod power. I think that publicly, moderators should be... moderate. I know mods have to deal with some real knuckleheads as well; sure, run those types up the flagpole. But I have read too many posts where some minor thing turned into a "How dare you question me!!! If you don't like it, go somewhere else!" public humiliation by a mod.

Many rules are too dynamic and vaguely defined. "Spoiling for a fight" is a classic example. I've seen this little catch-all "interpreted" far beyond reason.

And finally...some punishments in my opinion, are absolutely draconian. LIFETIME BAN??? Really? For words? LIFE??? It is widely known that forum management will not hesitate to pull the trigger on this gun for relatively little.

Like I said, I love ECF. And I dearly hope it remains my primary forum. After a year or 2, I've made friends here. They are valuable to me and I wish I were more confident that they would be here tomorrow. I am (was) also a supporting member, but I just cancelled it because of the increasing number of occurrences, rule changes, rule additions, & interpretative micro-management policies I don't support or can't keep up with.

And after hearing certain mods tell members who questioned them "If you don't like it then go somewhere else." that's exactly what I did; I registered at a couple other forums. NOT because I don't like it here, but because I feel my membership is of very little value to management.

I am posting this in the hopes that it may, in some small way, help this forum, and NOT to question the authority of any moderator. J0ker, for whom I have the utmost respect, has told me how ECF has grown so fast, so quickly, that I understand managing it must be a monumental task. I couldn't do his job.

I'm sure for every experienced, old school member who goes elsewhere, twenty noobs replace him. The mods are the boss but I still believe it would boost morale if mods and members would BOTH behave as though the other were standing right there in front of them, and that discipline, when necessary, should be private, FAIR, and commensurate with the offense. In other words, moderate.

GREAT post!!!! This is just what I am talking about
Thank-you

 

[whiskey]

Smokey Joe, could you check you Pm's please???

 

[Dana A]

I have had a spanking for swearing while substituting an S with a 5. I really didn't think it was a big deal but I will never get another spanking again for doing that because I will never do it again. My face turned red with shame when I found out because I am really not the type to get in trouble. My husband thought it was really funny that I got in trouble on ECF. I don't remember reading in the rules about swearing but it probably IS there. I don't have any hard feelings about it because like I said it probably is in the rules even if I can't find it. I have not been treated badly by anyone on ECF but have a few times saw what I thought was not appropriate behavior for a mod. I am not doing the mods job so I just shrugged it off because I always feel like maybe I don't know the whole story. I am fairly new here and so far think ECF is a wonderful place to spend time. The only thing I would like to see different is an easier way to visit all my favorite threads like the short cuts I have on my desktop. One of my favorite threads was just moved and now I can't seem to find it. Maybe being able to add threads we visit a lot to a favorites menu or something. I don't even pretend to know how possible this would be so please don't take this as a bashing cause if it never happened I would still be a happy member. Just a thought...

 

[whiskey]

Dana...did you see my last post just now????