SOBER VAPERS - Vaping Sober - ROLLCALL!

[Surf Monkey]

So, you're of the opinion that nicotine and caffeine impair judgement?
Do you believe that if I give up vaping and caffeine, that I'm still not sober if I continue to take my Cymbalta which is mood altering? How about Carmex lip balm? There are addictive substances in that. Where are we to draw the line by your reasoning?

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

Impair judgment? Since when is that the definition of "drug?"

But since you ask, yes, I do think that's possible. Ever seen the behavior of someone who's had way too much coffee? Someone who's smoked way too many cigarettes?

Sorry, but the argument that nicotine doesn't produce psychoactive effects is a dead end. It does. That's a proven fact and an empirical one as well. We all know the effects of nicotine and caffeine. Arguing that these aren't drugs, that they don't have psychoactive properties or that they're different in any substantive way from drugs from salvia to lysergic diethyl amide would be like trying to argue that your middle finger isn't a finger.

 

[windy33]

Sounds like some of you haven't been rocketed to the 4th dimension lol

 

[Zak Rabbit]

I think what happens sometimes is that People use a Strict, Dictionary Definition of things they have No Real World Experience in.

Oh I understand, I was just wondering what Surf's reply would be. I'm still going to take my 10yr chip if I make it to Nov. 13th. Probably, I'll have my Provari in hand too.

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

 

[windy33]

I am 14 yrs clean from my DOC. I did program faithfully the first 6 yrs and now I have a drink every now and again ( yes I know alcohol is a drug) didn't come here to be preached at and I will never give back my 14 yrs I still consider myself clean because I am. Congrats to everyone newly clean and sober

 

[Surf Monkey]

Apparently he is all for absolutes only when it serves his purpose. Technically it's an intoxicant but you are 100% correct that most people consider you sober if you are just smoking cigarettes or e-cigs and that is what this thread is about "Sober" so when he uses the word intoxicated in regards to sober he is just being obnoxious. He also insists it's "no different than other drugs" still he knows better and is just being obnoxious. I have come to the conclusion that he enjoys being obnoxious and disrupting threads.

Leading with a snotty personal smear does a great job of discrediting everything that you wrote after that.

Whether or not "most people" think you're sober when you smoke is irrelevant. Most people think that the Earth is only 10k years old too. So? None of that changes the bottom line facts. Nicotine and caffeine are intoxicants.

And while we're parsing your post, the obnoxious one in this thread is you, my virtual friend. Your chronic insistence on making every post an attempted character assassination reflects vastly more poorly on you than me. Like many rookie OUTSIDErs you're confusing "doesn't immediately agree with me" with "is being disruptive for the sake of disruption." If, by some miracle, you actually last here you'll learn soon enough that "defending" your arguments by attacking other posters rather than addressing the points they raised is a massive miscalculation on your part.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Sounds like some of you haven't been rocketed to the 4th dimension lol

More times than I care to (or actually can) remember.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I am 14 yrs clean from my DOC. I did program faithfully the first 6 yrs and now I have a drink every now and again ( yes I know alcohol is a drug) didn't come here to be preached at and I will never give back my 14 yrs I still consider myself clean because I am. Congrats to everyone newly clean and sober

No one is going to preach to you here. We're all recovering addicts of one form or another. Welcome in and congrats on the 14 years. That's awesome!

 

[zoiDman]

Oh I understand, I was just wondering what Surf's reply would be. I'm still going to take my 10yr chip if I make it to Nov. 13th. Probably, I'll have my Provari in hand too.

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

Right On Zak. Gonna Get the Big X.

I'm getting close to that Whiner Chip. LOL

 

[Zak Rabbit]

Right On Zak. Gonna Get the Big X.

I'm getting close to that Whiner Chip. LOL

Only by the grace of God, one day at a time. I sure as hell didn't do it alone. People like you help people like me more than you'll ever know! Send me a pm, I know you're pretty local, I'd love to come see you take that chip!

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Oh I understand, I was just wondering what Surf's reply would be. I'm still going to take my 10yr chip if I make it to Nov. 13th. Probably, I'll have my Provari in hand too.

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

My reply would be congratulations and that has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. quiter is just venting because he got his fingers caught in the cookie jar in another thread.

 

[quiter]

Leading with a snotty personal smear does a great job of discrediting everything that you wrote after that.

Whether or not "most people" think you're sober when you smoke is irrelevant. Most people think that the Earth is only 10k years old too. So? None of that changes the bottom line facts. Nicotine and caffeine are intoxicants.

And while we're parsing your post, the obnoxious one in this thread is you, my virtual friend. Your chronic insistence on making every post an attempted character assassination reflects vastly more poorly on you than me. Like many rookie OUTSIDErs you're confusing "doesn't immediately agree with me" with "is being disruptive for the sake of disruption." If, by some miracle, you actually last here you'll learn soon enough that "defending" your arguments by attacking other posters rather than addressing the points they raised is a massive miscalculation on your part.

LOL snotty? You calling me snotty? Now that is funny. Again it's not legally an intoxicant is it? Find me one law that states that you can't drive while smoking or drinking coffee. There is a reason why it doesn't rise to the same level. Guess what here it comes. It's because it's "different".

You keep preaching that you will be amazed if I last. I get the feeling you would love to see me gone and that you probably have a list someplace in your head of all the people you have baited into getting kicked off or who have left simply because they couldn't put up with you. Well whatever floats your boat.

 

[zoiDman]

I am 14 yrs clean from my DOC. I did program faithfully the first 6 yrs and now I have a drink every now and again ( yes I know alcohol is a drug) didn't come here to be preached at and I will never give back my 14 yrs I still consider myself clean because I am. Congrats to everyone newly clean and sober

14 Years is Outstanding.

It's strange how different Chemicals have Different Pulls on people. My Sponsor FREAKED OUT when I told him that I had a Bottle of 30 or 40 Vicodons (sp?) in my desk drawer. I was just over a Year Sober at the Time. And that I had had them, untouched for about 4 years.

He couldn't believe that I could have a Bottle of Pills and had never taken even one. It just isn't my DOC. It has no Pull on me.

I think it is Great that you can have a Drink every Now and Again.

 

[Surf Monkey]

LOL snotty? You calling me snotty?

Yep. I am. I've seen a lot of posters come and go here. You are, without a doubt, the most overwrought one I've ever encountered. The number of posts you've made that don't include attacks and character assassinations could probably be counted on one hand. Maybe it's just your writing style but you come off as borderline hysterical every time you put finger to key.

Now that is funny. Again it's not legally an intoxicant is it? Find me one law that states that you can't drive while smoking or drinking coffee. There is a reason why it doesn't rise to the same level. Guess what here it comes. It's because it's "different".

Oops. You shot your mouth off before actually trying to figure out if what you were about to say was true or not.

Nicotine is a legal intoxicant. Witness:

Legal intoxicant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You keep preaching that you will be amazed if I last. I get the feeling you would love to see me gone and that you probably have a list someplace in your head of all the people you have baited into getting kicked off or who have left simply because they couldn't put up with you. Well whatever floats your boat.

Preaching? Interesting pejorative.

I don't really care whether you stay or go, frankly. I simply find it hard to ignore that you're skipping down a path that I've seen MANY skip down before. Sometimes they come correct and stick around, other times they cross the line and disappear. I'm not making a value judgment about that. Your imagination is vivid.

 

[Plumes.91]

That's another problem with this thread.
Substances can't be talked about openly here because of ECF rules.
They are good rules because of the purpose of ECF but are nevertheless restrictive to certain unhampered discussions regarding certain experiences and addictions.

No this thread isn't really for discussing specific substances. I created this thread for addicts, those struggling with addiction, those whom are sober, and just about anyone else, to come in, and talk to each other. Its a social thread. Though I did want to speak on my findings about nicotine vapor causing negative side effects when used during a withdrawal period from my DOC, since it related to both vaping and addiction, awareness and hopefully it will help at least 1 person understand they aren't going crazy and that Provari is making them feel more ill than they usually feel now that they are going through withdrawal with vaping rather than smoking. I think the mods will be able to see the difference between lewd substance talk and mature e-cig related harm reduction. But, as I've said, this thread will not focus on talk of our drugs of choice, rather, it will be a social for those of us whom are vaping while living without their DOC/living clean.

If you haven't already, please join in and let us know who you are. If you've been sober for a year, if you've been sober for 6 hours, come on in and join us we'd really like to be able to support you through this, even if its just by being a group of friends.

 

[quiter]

Well I will leave this thread to the rest of you. Good luck staying sober and congrats on all of your efforts. I would stick around but it's only going to be a disruption.

Have a nice night everyone and stay clean.

 

[Zak Rabbit]

My reply would be congratulations and that has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. quiter is just venting because he got his fingers caught in the cookie jar in another thread.

Honestly, you've hit on a long standing argument within a certain 12-step community.
The first question still stands unanswered: you've pointed out that normally ingested substances are intoxicants; where do we draw the line between sober and not sober?
Does the mere presence of an intoxicant denote "not sober?"


Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

 

[Surf Monkey]

No this thread isn't really for discussing specific substances. I created this thread for addicts, those struggling with addiction, those whom are sober, and just about anyone else, to come in, and talk to each other. Its a social thread. Though I did want to speak on my findings about nicotine vapor causing negative side effects when used during a withdrawal period from my DOC, since it related to both vaping and addiction, awareness and hopefully it will help at least 1 person understand they aren't going crazy and that Provari is making them feel more ill than they usually feel now that they are going through withdrawal with vaping rather than smoking. I think the mods will be able to see the difference between lewd substance talk and mature e-cig related harm reduction. But, as I've said, this thread will not focus on talk of our drugs of choice, rather, it will be a social for those of us whom are vaping while living without their DOC/living clean.

If you haven't already, please join in and let us know who you are. If you've been sober for a year, if you've been sober for 6 hours, come on in and join us we'd really like to be able to support you through this, even if its just by being a group of friends.

I know your intentions are pure, but bass is right. We have lots of drug experiences that we'd love to talk about frankly, but the site's rules forbid it. The best we can do is hint at it and even that is potentially problematic depending on how the mod staff interprets those hints.

The reasoning of the ownership is that vaping is easily confused with vaporizing other substances. They don't want to be associated with any other drugs because they're not our fight and blurring the lines is a bad idea, particularly when the lines are between a potential health benefit and a class of substances that have an extremely bad public image.

So, while I applaud your efforts I won't be surprised when the thread is closed. It kind of doesn't belong in the OUTSIDE section and it's very close to a flat out rule violation IMO.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Honestly, you've hit on a long standing argument within a certain 12-step community.

Oh, I'm well aware of that fact. That's why I wasn't particularly surprised that so many people reacted aggressively to what I pointed out.

And for absolute clarity: I'm not making a value judgement about smokers or vapers. I'm simply pointing out a practical reality: nicotine is a drug. An intoxicating one. The phrase "sober vaping" doesn't really apply, unless the word "sober" is being used exclusively as a euphemism for "not drinking."

 

[zoiDman]

Only by the grace of God, one day at a time. I sure as hell didn't do it alone. People like you help people like me more than you'll ever know! Send me a pm, I know you're pretty local, I'd love to come see you take that chip!

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

PM Sent.

 

[zoiDman]

Oh, I'm well aware of that fact. That's why I wasn't particularly surprised that so many people reacted aggressively to what I pointed out.

And for absolute clarity: I'm not making a value judgement about smokers or vapers. I'm simply pointing out a practical reality: nicotine is a drug. An intoxicating one. The phrase "sober vaping" doesn't really apply, unless the word "sober" is being used exclusively as a euphemism for "not drinking."

I think Different Words mean Different things to Different People Surf.

I see no reason why the word Sobriety can mean Something to You that Doesn't have the Same Meaning to Me.