Stainless Steel (dry burn)

[Froth]

Thanks for the info Froth, so what happens if I do not a 100W power to pulse my coils, is it essentially you just need to pulse the coils glowing orange, cool down process to make it long lasting?

Are your SS built coils spaced or compact?

You've got it, 100W is not required at all it's just what I use, you can still get an orange glow from even just 20W or lower depending on your build, the important thing is an even heating from inside out with no hot spots, once it can do that and you glow it orange it's good to go.

Every device I use I have contact coils installed only, I have experimented with spaced wraps but the performance doesn't give me what I get from a contact coil, plus I like larger ID coils so it gets hard to fit a 4mm ID coil inside a 22mm RDA even without spacing the wraps.

 

[Akuma888]

You've got it, 100W is not required at all it's just what I use, you can still get an orange glow from even just 20W or lower depending on your build, the important thing is an even heating from inside out with no hot spots, once it can do that and you glow it orange it's good to go.

Every device I use I have contact coils installed only, I have experimented with spaced wraps but the performance doesn't give me what I get from a contact coil, plus I like larger ID coils so it gets hard to fit a 4mm ID coil inside a 22mm RDA even without spacing the wraps.

And you are running on TC with contact SS coils?

I read and watch many reviews all claiming for TC, all type coil builds must spaced for accurate TC reading. But of course these are RTA builds.

 

[Froth]

And you are running on TC with contact SS coils?

I read and watch many reviews all claiming for TC, all type coil builds must spaced for accurate TC reading. But of course these are RTA builds.

No, I do not use TC as I only own mechanical mods, I made a statement at the start of my first post in this thread that I was not a temperature control user but simply relaying my experiences with dry burning SS and safety.

 

[fishwater]

And you are running on TC with contact SS coils?

I read and watch many reviews all claiming for TC, all type coil builds must spaced for accurate TC reading. But of course these are RTA builds.

I've run plenty of contact coil builds on TC with Ti & SS, it's only Ni200 that you must use spaced coils with. There is a lot of preference lately to spaced builds for TC but again unless you're using Ni200 you can do whatever you want, spaced or contact.

 

[BillW50]

I don't think I will ever forget what that SS coil smelled like and tasted like (it taste just like the smell) after that dry burn yesterday. I have another SS316L coil in use that I know I have dry burned before. And I am vaping an ADV that I have been vaping for over a year. I pretty much know what it is suppose to taste like put in anything I own. And that other SS is in my second Crown RBA.

And I just picked it up just now to vape it after sitting for a day. And I believe I detect that same awful taste, but it is so diluted that it is just barely there. If I never had that bad experience with that dry burning in that other SS coil yesterday, I don't think I would have noticed this one today. As it is vaping very good except a small hint of just something not 100% right. I guess I should just build a fresh SS coil without using any heat higher than 600°F and see what that taste like.

 

[ShowerHead]

I have some Crown tanks and use 28 Ga SS430. I only do TC nowadays.
At first I did spaced coils. Worked fine, but kind of uneven. Then I was inspired by someone to do a contact coil.
A 3mm coil worked a treat. I pulsed it and even after a cleaning with alcohol (or maybe because of) there was a little curl of smoke come off it. Strum it to get an even inside out glow. Wick it. Vape.

I've not seen any difference in taste except possibly a positive one. Thanks to @Froth for letting me know that I can just pulse the coils until they glow properly.

In short, I have done these coils both ways and have several tanks with 'old' coils to compare to. No odd taste whatsoever. Getting a contact coil right is much easier than playing with getting the coil spaced evenly. Plus, when I wick them, no worries about the spacing changing.

 

[Nikea Tiber]

The most critical element of the process Froth described with pulse-firing is the even distribution of heat throughout the coil to ensure the formation of the (non-conductive) oxide layer across the entire exposed surface of the coil.
This is necessary when you build contact coils so the current doesn't short past coils, dropping the coil resistance.
Firing at high wattages will heat the coil faster, however if a coil is shorting, the portion of coil receiving energy might heat quickly enough to melt, so wattage used to pulse-fire is really a matter of personal preference and what you are comfortable your reflexes can handle.

 

[BillW50]

Firing at high wattages will heat the coil faster, however if a coil is shorting, the portion of coil receiving energy might heat quickly enough to melt

Makes sense to me, but I quit building contact coils since June of '15. And I dry burned that SS316L spaced coil at 20 watts pulsed. And that one coil turned into tasting and smelling like crap.

 

[BillW50]

I guess I should just build a fresh SS coil without using any heat higher than 600°F and see what that taste like.

I just rebuilt that one using SS316L 26g spaced 3mm. I did pulse it at 10 watts to burn off oils, etc. on a new wire. I probably just should have used alcohol instead. But so far I am not getting any of that taste yet.

 

[BillW50]

Spaced vs. Compressed Coils​

I really hope someone does a really good study between spaced and compressed coils. Because I never found compressed coils actually outperform spaced coils. And whenever you see manufactured stock coils, they always seemed to be spaced. With compressed coils, you need very good wicking or the cotton burns. You need to use fancy things like Scottish rolls and such to keep wicking as good as you can. Plus the vapor created has to squeeze through those compressed coils. Efficiency goes down drastically and a dry hit is at an all time high.

I dunno, spacing something like between an imaginary second wire filling in the space to half that seems to work really well for me. No fancy wicking required for one and plenty of room for vapor to escape. Also no need to check for hotspots since non-contact coils doesn't get hotspots.

 

[fishwater]

I just did a new build on my Bachelor with a spaced 12 wrap coil that is outperforming my previous spaced 6 wrap or contact by a substantial margin on my new DNA 200, instantly made me a believer in spaced vs contact this weekend.

 

[BillW50]

Getting a contact coil right is much easier than playing with getting the coil spaced evenly. Plus, when I wick them, no worries about the spacing changing.

I have no problems making spaced coils. The easiest way for me is wrapping a compressed coil and a really tight compressed coil. Then I stretch them out like a spring. They all stretch out evenly and perfectly (thus why wrapping really tight makes this work this way). Nor have I found any problems with the wicking moving the spacing. Although I don't use any wire smaller than 28g, but I do the same for soft Ni200 28ga wire. Some people found wrapping around a screw works for them. That probably works too, as I have never tried it.

 

[fishwater]

Agreed, I tried the screw method & blah, not for me. Wrapping a typical contact coil & then pulling it does the trick perfectly every time.

 

[Akuma888]

I have tried wrapping a nickel coil on coil master and failed many times. Wire is too soft. In the end, I only use the CM rod and wrap.

Still new at this. Lol.

 

[Nikea Tiber]

If you were the size of a steam molecule, what we percieve as contact coils wouldn't be contact coils at all. There is enough space between the wraps that it doesn't pose a significant impediment to vapor escaping the wick and coil.
I feel that the advantages to compression wound contact coils are that they ramp up more quickly as the coil heats itself more efficiently with its own radiant heat, and (at least I feel) it is easier to place the coil more precisely in the atomizers airflow.
I try and build my coil size to the airflow inlet dimensions of the RDA I'm using. Once I've built the coil and placed it sometimes I'll put the mandrel back on and space the coils a little, it helps with gunking on hotter builds.
Unless it is ni200, it is all personal preference really. As long as it gets you nicotine and flavor and doesn't physically blow your face off, there is no wrong way to do it.

 

[BillW50]

The easiest way for me is wrapping a compressed coil and a really tight compressed coil. Then I stretch them out like a spring. They all stretch out evenly and perfectly

Here is a pic of one Ni200 28g coil I built yesterday. I just made a compressed coil and stretched it. I didn't fiddle with the spacing or anything.

 

[BillW50]

I have tried wrapping a nickel coil on coil master and failed many times. Wire is too soft. In the end, I only use the CM rod and wrap.

The above coil was wrapped with the Coil Master and it is Ni200 too. Probably had taken like 15 seconds. I use to use tempered Ni200 since it is stiff like Kanthal. Never worked with regular Ni200 for the first 6 months, because everyone said it was too soft. Then one day I decided to give regular Ni200 a shot and I just love that stuff.

 

[BillW50]

If you were the size of a steam molecule, what we percieve as contact coils wouldn't be contact coils at all. There is enough space between the wraps that it doesn't pose a significant impediment to vapor escaping the wick and coil.

True as the vapor is a higher pressure than the air around it and it will be released wherever it can. But the coils also get coated with gunk and seals off the vapor from escaping between compressed coils. Once this happens, there is a very fine line between a nice warm vape and that crappy burnt taste.

 

[BillW50]

Yesterday I grabbed my old spool of tempered Ni200 which unspooled on me once and it ended up in knots and kinks. Taken me about two hours to get it all spooled up again. Anyway I am trying to use it all up and while trying to remove one kink to wrap a coil, I discovered something.

Making a compressed coil and wanting to make it spaced, stick a rod, screwdriver or whatever fits in the ID of the coil while it is mounted. Just lift one and and then bring right down. Then left and right. Or do this in a circular motion. What happens is a compressed coil starts becoming a spaced coil. This is something you can try if you have trouble making spaced coils. I will continuing with this to see if I can improve this method. But it seems to be doing well so far.

 

[dleister1981]

just like Froth i dry burn SS all the time, what i did learn is that if you dry burn and dont hit it with cold water the ash will stick and give you an ashey taste, so what i did was get a denture brush and i burn mine, let it cool then scrub it under cold water, goes back to shiney and tastes like new every time. i found if i dont burn it i either get hot spots, even on spaced coils or TC doesnt function well unless i vape in wattage for a few puffs then let it cool and put the mod in TC, so its habit to dry burn now