TC: Any reason against it?

[Myk]

Replay is not TC @Myk, it was explained how it works in the Evolv Thread.

Since TC really isn't temperature control but ohm control it still sounds like TC to me. Even when it's in VW with none of the TC protections. It just takes a different route to set the ohm control than using a TCR to predict temperature.

In VW if you puff hard you're cooling the coils differently than if you don't puff at all.
So once you set replay in VW with no temperature protections it's still adjusting the temperature to different air temperatures and air flows because it's trying to match the ohms it had before. So you still have temperature protection just no idea of what those temperatures are. You may not have dry coil protections (although you may because that also works by reading ohms).

 

[ShowerHead]

Loads of reasons

It's a pain setting up
The inconsistency how it works from one device to another
The fact it only works in a fashion with some devices
The fact that they have a nerve even having TC on other devices because it doesn't work at all
The fact i have done both and i know about 4 others (not forums in the flesh) that have done both and we all just use power modes now basically because we all came to the conclusion TC was **** in our opinions i have met nobody outside of forums that rate TC at all.
I hear all the arguments for TC, no dry hits burn't hits etc but i never get dry hits or burn't hits using power mode.
I find it very interesting in an interview about replay when it was mentioned at Evolv they were discussing amongst themselves why none of them used or could be bothered using TC and the answer seemed to be they found it a pain in the .... for no real benefit. And that's the Evolv staff even when the reviewers with the data charts for temp control are talking about them they are doing so while vaping in power mode.

People are not stupid and if TC was so great that's how people would vape, those that use it and like it great for them.

Blah, blah, blah, me and 4 other incompetents dang near cried trying to get that there TC stuff to work on our bargain bin mods using some real good coils we picked up on ebay for a whole dollar. So, it follows that there TC stuff ain't any good. And I hear voices, voices I tell you. Some of them were on a video of the creator of TC saying it is darn tootin' the devil's spawn. Well, anyway, trust me, stay away from that there TC stuff, I know things and know a whole lot more than any of you.


There, summarized it for you.
TC, on a quality mod, is the best most consistent vape outside of Replay mode.

 

[TrollDragon]

Since TC really isn't temperature control but ohm control it still sounds like TC to me. Even when it's in VW with none of the TC protections. It just takes a different route to set the ohm control than using a TCR to predict temperature.

In VW if you puff hard you're cooling the coils differently than if you don't puff at all.
So once you set replay in VW with no temperature protections it's still adjusting the temperature to different air temperatures and air flows because it's trying to match the ohms it had before. So you still have temperature protection just no idea of what those temperatures are. You may not have dry coil protections (although you may because that also works by reading ohms).

It's all resistance tracking except for Hohm Tech's version of temperature protection, which also works with Ni80 and KA1.

 

[BillW50]

Oh not another one of these crappy claims. For Pete's sake, PBusardo did a long video a couple of years ago in how Aspire's battery factory manufactures its cells and how they are manufactured for vapers. And how they are temperature tested for a couple months before being sold to ensure they won't blow up in a vapers face.

Sorry, but that's just a ridiculous claim. No battery manufacturer can guarantee that their batteries will not explode or burst into flames.

None do! But the problems occurs when you follow battery safety and the damn thing explodes anyway. I have studied this problem and I found out why this happens. As our lithium cells without temperature testing can after the first few charge and discharge cycles, can go thermal.

Lithium ion batteries have inherent risks because of their chemistry. That is just one "Inconvenient Truth". As vapers, we either choose to accept those risks or not vape with them.

No you can choose to use cells manufactured for vaping or take your chance and use cells that are made for power packs, etc. and not designed for consumer use.

Some lithium ion chemistries are somewhat "safer" than others, as Mooch explains in the second video. But there are NO safe lithium ion batteries.

That is what I am saying, cells designed for vaping are safer than those that are not. It isn't really hard to understand.

Aspire's batteries are not the best performing batteries on the market. Quite often, their advertised specifications are greatly exaggerated, as most Chinese batteries are.

High performing cells gives up on safety. That is the price you pay. Safer cells doesn't cut corners like moving the plates closer together, thinning the shell, using thin wraps, etc. Same is true of anything. If you want a high performance vehicle to win races, you don't go to your local car dealer to buy it. Just like when you pick a vehicle for work, go to the store, or go on vacation, taking your high performance nitro race car wouldn't be a good choice, now is it?

I and others have tested Aspire batteries and their ratings are accurate. Well the one I tested was an Aspire 26650 4300mah cells (I don't have any other of their cells). And Aspire rates them at 20A continuous while Mooch rates them 30A continuous. Go figure.

• Aspire Unrated 1800mAh 18650 Retest...now using a different battery, performs worse
• Aspire 20A 2500mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery
• Aspire 35A 3000mAh 18650...preposterously overrated, incorrect Aspire data, but they’re willing to rewrap

Sorry for the but I could not let that comment slip by unchallenged.

What challenge? When someone claims there are not cells manufactured for vapers and that is completely wrong! There is for Pete's sake. And you can't have both high performer and safer in one product. That just isn't reality.

 

[ScottP]

If there is one thing Obama and Trump can agree on..................

..........it's on what the appropriate reaction to this thread is.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah... I think Mercury is in Retrograde or something.

 

[440BB]

Things sure can get heated in this thread.

I wish there was some way to let cooler heads prevail.

 

[BillW50]

Things sure can get heated in this thread.

I wish there was some way to let cooler heads prevail.

Nothing heated up, it is called science and education. School and lessons are tough I know, but you can do it.

 

[Myk]

It's all resistance tracking except for Hohm Tech's version of temperature protection, which also works with Ni80 and KA1.

Good to know Replay works inside of TC. I'm probably getting some DNA boards soon and was thinking about getting the 250C along with the 75s to update D2s. If I had to rely on randomly hitting on a good VW vape to try replay I'd have a less fidgety time vaping a 2 digit TC mod in front of the AC getting it locked in at the right cold temperature.

 

[dripster]

Thanks for explaining that to me! Like I said I am way too paranoid and forgetful to ever try a mech mod, but I was very curious how they work for flavor and I didn't even realize they could get the button stuck on them With 0 protection from that! What do you do if the button gets stuck? Just take the batteries out fast?

Flavor is always going to be largely subjective, but mech mods are inherently preheating the coils because the battery sag of the typical round cells we use in them always exhibits that distinctive behavior or pattern. (Even, in a regulated mod, but a regulated mod compensates for that by using a buck circuit or boost circuit or buck/boost circuit the purpose of which is for it to be capable to output a different voltage than the input voltage it receives from the batteries, which enables it to be in control of the resulting wattage as it also monitors the changing resistance of the atomizer/coil.) In lay terms it means that, on a mech mod, at the start of every hit the voltage always starts up high after which it immediately abrubtly plummets, very substantially at first and then it stabilizes in such a way that it starts to further decline in a much more gradual fashion. This transition effect gives a typical smooth curve the shape of which is very consistently recognizably characterizing that people can clearly feel on the vape and that you can learn to appreciate, an awful lot actually. Flavor and human perception of flavor are profoundly related to how the vape feels.

As for what I do if the button gets stuck, on a mech mod that uses a 510 pin I just unscrew the atomizer or do whatever it takes to immediately stop the electric current from flowing. On a "faux hybrid", or direct-to-battery tube mech you should never ever unscrew the atomizer like that, as doing that could cause the battery to get pushed against the top of the inside of the mod thereby resulting in a hard short. Several many of my Purge Mods tube mechs have a male tube that I can very likely still unscrew in the even that I can't unscrew the button. But due to the quality of the design and the machining with these mods in particular I am confident enough that there's no reason for me to be paranoid in this regard. Different mech mods all have different safety features. People still drive their cars at reasonably fast speeds even if they know some day their brakes might suddenly fail. It's against the law to break the speed limit, but personally, I, don't think .11 ohms on a single VTC5A battery should be outlawed, and, I'm not Ayrton Senna nor feel the need to be in pursuit of a career in racing. Just that maybe there are idiots who should be required to get a vaping licence from Mooch or something maybe similar. But then, I don't asually go around telling to people they are idiots, at least not unless they abundently very clearly keep acting like ones.

 

[dripster]

Oh not another one of these crappy claims. For Pete's sake, PBusardo did a long video a couple of years ago in how Aspire's battery factory manufactures its cells and how they are manufactured for vapers. And how they are temperature tested for a couple months before being sold to ensure they won't blow up in a vapers face.

The whole idea is to mitigate the risks also in the rarest event that the safety mechanisms that are built into the manufacturing process, the safety inspections of both that and the batteries themselves, or the safety mechanisms that can be built into the batteries themselves (PTC, CID), might somehow fail. But in order to force a battery to just blow up in someone's face without there being any prior warning signs of any kind whatsoever (sizzling/hissing, smoke, etc.) it normally needs to be abused/mishandled really significantly very hard, and, the chance of a battery explosion under normal usage/circumstances, despite it isn't completely nonexistent, is really very very microscopic indeed, at least if the batteries are manufactured by "the big 4" (Samsung, LG, Sony, Panasonic/Sanyo). But pushing a battery harder means increasing the risk of the battery venting. Battery venting is not the same thing as thermal runaway, but can still nevertheless also be dangerous.

 

[dripster]

It is no secret that high resistive wire ramps up faster. But that means nothing since electronics you can make any wire ramp up faster without overheating. We call this technology.

We call this being wrong about technology, as the resistivity of SS316L is lower than that of Ni80, yet, despite this, watt for watt, given the same wire thickness and length, Ni80 ramps up faster than SS316L. That's just because Ni80 has a lower volumetric heat capacity than SS316L, which, in turn, has a lower volumetric heat capacity than Kanthal A1, and, despite Kanthal has the highest resistivity among these three different metal types, it is still the one that ramps up slowest of them all. So please go and give me a break.

You can't overheat anything running too high of a resistance anyway in a mech. We call this a cool vape. That is why we boost the cell's voltage in regulated mods. So you can enjoy your high resistance with flavor and vapor.

You can't overheat anything if you vape on it in such a way that you don't overheat anything. We call this being capable to learn how to vape without burning stuff up, which is how vaping history first began, and, personally, I, can vape with three (or actually even four) batteries in series on my stacked tube mechs that we can't call a cool vape by any stretch of the imagination, and I can do it without burning.

 

[dripster]

Naw... not a problem for a professional. Just ask engineer John at Evolv if you don't believe me.


Only true if you don't know what you are doing. But you are far from being alone.


TC is only anemic if you set it up incorrectly, which you obviously did. Or you used a mod that can't do TC well. There are lots of those on the market and generally they are manufactured in China. But don't feel bad, apparently most youtube reviewers can't use TC correctly either.


Ah... Replay is designed for people who can't setup TC correctly. And all you do is complain how hard TC is for you and how you can't get it to vape right. Well gee wiz... I guess your right, it isn't for you.

And control the vape better with a mech mod? There is no control whatsoever except just on and off. Who are you trying to kid? Want a warmer vape? Start to chain vape. Want a cooler vape? Well let the coils cool down for awhile. That's not professionals call control. But I can understand how simpletons would like to think so.

First off, that first sentence just proves that you aren't a professional and that's it. Secondly, your assertion that I don't know what I'm doing with TC is more proof that you aren't even close to even BECOMING a professional, and, the rest of your post merits no further reply, as you don't grok even the BASIC concepts of 1/ changing airflow by not only adjusting the airflow settings alone, and 2/ building coils specifically to be used on a mech in such a way that they don't give a cool vape and they don't overheat despite they give both great flavor and great vapor.

 

[dripster]

Why it is embarrassing to setup TC to vape exactly like power mode? I would think many would like this. In TC terminology this is called power dominant. And a vaper wouldn't be able to tell the difference between TC and power mode configured this way. The TC that people normally try is called temperature dominant and then they complain it doesn't vape like power mode. Of course it doesn't.

If I can't tell the difference anyway in the first place, then logically it follows that it can't be better so what's your point? If I can ride my bicycle without training wheels, then logically it follows that I don't need training wheels, but if, on the other hand, riding my bicycle without training wheels is causing me to fall flat on my face, then that's when the story fully changes.

 

[KurtVD]

Well, ‘despite’ all this less-than-encouraging posts, today I cracked open my NI200 spool and made myself a coil for my RDA. Only then have I noticed that it is 30Ga, usually I use KA1 24Ga, but with the one juice I have tested it so far, it tastes pretty much the same (although this particular juice is so sweet that it tastes about the same in any setup). I’ll have to see with my two other favorite juices.
Otherwise I’m really happy with the result: Thanks to Arctic Fox, it was a breeze to set up, and it really works just as I expected - the vapor never gets hotter than I want it to be.
The only drawback seems to be potential health concerns with NI200. What are they, apart from allergies?

 

[KurtVD]

Well, ‘despite’ all this less-than-encouraging posts, today I cracked open my NI200 spool and made myself a coil for my RDA. Only then have I noticed that it is 30Ga, usually I use KA1 24Ga, but with the one juice I have tested it so far, it tastes pretty much the same (although this particular juice is so sweet that it tastes about the same in any setup). I’ll have to see with my two other favorite juices.
Otherwise I’m really happy with the result: Thanks to Arctic Fox, it was a breeze to set up, and it really works just as I expected - the vapor never gets hotter than I want it to be.
The only drawback seems to be potential health concerns with NI200. What are they, apart from allergies?

I've just tested another juice, I've also liked the taste. So far, I see no reason not to keep on building NI200 coils.

Just one question: How can temperature control avoid dry hits or burning the wick? Aren't the set temperatures high enough to burn the wick anyway? Maybe not as bad as without TC, but still? And it will still be kind of a dry hit, won't it?

And does anybody know what "Temperature Dominant" means in Arctic Fox? It's an option to select.

 

[dripster]

Well, ‘despite’ all this less-than-encouraging posts, today I cracked open my NI200 spool and made myself a coil for my RDA. Only then have I noticed that it is 30Ga, usually I use KA1 24Ga, but with the one juice I have tested it so far, it tastes pretty much the same (although this particular juice is so sweet that it tastes about the same in any setup). I’ll have to see with my two other favorite juices.
Otherwise I’m really happy with the result: Thanks to Arctic Fox, it was a breeze to set up, and it really works just as I expected - the vapor never gets hotter than I want it to be.
The only drawback seems to be potential health concerns with NI200. What are they, apart from allergies?

Are Metals Emitted from Electronic Cigarettes a Reason for Health Concern? A Risk-Assessment Analysis of Currently Available Literature

 

[Myk]

I've just tested another juice, I've also liked the taste. So far, I see no reason not to keep on building NI200 coils.

Just one question: How can temperature control avoid dry hits or burning the wick? Aren't the set temperatures high enough to burn the wick anyway? Maybe not as bad as without TC, but still? And it will still be kind of a dry hit, won't it?

And does anybody know what "Temperature Dominant" means in Arctic Fox? It's an option to select.

Dry cotton burns around 400°F. A burnt hit starts around 450°F.
I think the dry wick protection kicks in when your ramp up goes too fast on mods that have that. They can be a headache kicking in when they shouldn't.

"Temperature dominate" means what's the big part on the screen and that's what gets adjusted with +/-. To change the non-dominate temperature or wattage you have to click 4 times.

 

[BillW50]

First off, that first sentence just proves that you aren't a professional and that's it. Secondly, your assertion that I don't know what I'm doing with TC is more proof that you aren't even close to even BECOMING a professional, and, the rest of your post merits no further reply, as you don't grok even the BASIC concepts of 1/ changing airflow by not only adjusting the airflow settings alone, and 2/ building coils specifically to be used on a mech in such a way that they don't give a cool vape and they don't overheat despite they give both great flavor and great vapor.

I started out in the military and I scored the highest test scores they had seen in 5 years. I've taken every electronic course they had. Then they put me to work with Honeywell and Westinghouse engineers, modifying, adjusting, and replaced faulty components down to the component on missile control and radar systems. After I got out of the military, I was immediately hired by Philips Electronics (which was based in Eindhoven back then) as an electronic engineer. Yes neither I, nor anybody I ever worked for or met, or even John at Evolv, are actually professions. Got any other tall tales you want to share with us?

 

[BillW50]

You can't overheat anything if you vape on it in such a way that you don't overheat anything. We call this being capable to learn how to vape without burning stuff up, which is how vaping history first began, and, personally, I, can vape with three (or actually even four) batteries in series on my stacked tube mechs that we can't call a cool vape by any stretch of the imagination, and I can do it without burning.

Look, this isn't rocket science (but missile control is). The higher the resistance, the higher voltage you will need to vape. And at one point one 3.7v isn't enough. Thus you will need more voltage.