TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[WharfRat1976]

I set my tc mod to 7w in vw mode and pulse for 10secs. The coil barely glows red and the end turns don't glow red but get hot enough to release rhe gunk. My Ti coils are all 24g 2.8mm 6wrap. If you are using a thinner gauge, different dia or number of wraps you may need to pulse with a little more or less power.

Spaced coils or compressed?

 

[JimScotty0]

Spaced coils or compressed?

Do you like Vanilla or Chocolate? IMHO spaced coils is easier to deal with but you can make both work. Compressed coils will require some technique to get it just right.

 

[FormulaBass]

What RDA/RTA are you going to use? Do you prefer contact coils or spaced coils?

Right now, I'd recommend SS430 from Unkamen. It can be dry burned and used as contact or spaced coil. The one drawback is its only available in 28 ga and it seems performs better when twisted at this gauge. Hopefully in the near future, it'll be offered in 24/26 gauge, which I think will be best.

I use RDAs mostly, I have Mutation v2, Kennedy and Velocity in rotation. I prefer contact coil (usually dual), but that's only because I haven't used spaced coils.

 

[jazzvaper]

Time to report in.

Last night's rebuild of 6 wrap, 2.5 mm, 28 awg microcoil of NiFe 52 came in at 0.41 ohms but refined down to 38-39 ohms with virtually no variation in eScribe Atomizer Analyzer, on the Kayfun 4 (contrary to popular reports). ****

But that was not satisfactory coz I had no headroom in either watts or temp. Could run it at 18-19 watts but needed to bump the temp to 490-520. Not good..

So I decided to leave the K4 alone, trying with a Lemo 2 instead. (I loath clearomizers.)

Wrapped 10 wraps of 26 awg using the 2.5 Kuro with ohms reading 0.31. Set temp to 430 and watts to 22-23. Per eScribe hits and holds temp in about a second. Decent vape (for a clearomizer) with air wide open. Less flavor than I am used to but still good.

This seems to be the benchmark build. Only niggles from here on.

**** Gravy is that I dry-burned and rewicked the Kayfun 4 build, also changing flavor. Back-to-the-future!!

 

[Landman]

Now I'm really scratching my head. dwcraig & Landman Please confirm I have these builds right:

1st dwcraig1 built this with 26ga NiFe52? from Unkaman

http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp?si=false&a=true&mat=nft52&r=0.28&hfnw=40&awg=26&id=2.7178

And instead of .28Ω you got .606Ω

2nd Landman built this with 24ga NiFe52? Also from Unkaman



http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.as...999999999997&ll=5.0038&ws=0.38099999999999995


And got .314Ω instead off .315Ω predicted by SE ?????, but as you can see from the above SE build Landman's described
build would be .17Ω

To get a SE predicted .315 you'd need 12.5 wraps per the build below.

http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.as...999999999997&ll=5.0038&ws=0.38099999999999995

If I understand correctly then both the 26 & 24ga have resulted in roughly double the resistance they should be & per dwcraig a very low TCR per dwcraig


If this is NiFe 52 then .508Ω @ 68°F should be .943Ω @ 450°F If TCR is .001 then it would be .617Ω at 450°F
Based on resistance & TCR it sounds more like 316 or 317SS

One thing is for sure it's not NiFe 52

Sorry about that - I'd already changed it in SE to SS304... I knew the ohm was off initially, so I changed it to 304 which matched up to within .01 ohms. I forgot to add that my setting wasn't on NiFe52. While I'd prefer to know exactly what it is before vaping with it, since it matches up to 304, that's going to be my guess. Regardless, I ran a full tank through it and it was actually really good. Subtank plus with dremeled deck, rayon wicked, and I settled at 28 watts, 60 preheat. I'd still like to try some NiFe52... guess I'll have to get it from across the pond for now.

So how was the 44 gauge free sample packaged, I may have thew the baby out with the bath water?

I've not coiled it up yet - but I did check it out and it's softer than SS430 and Ti - this is what I was hoping the NiFe52 would be like.

Edit: Misread your post - it was in a small clear bag with a label. Looks to be about a foot in length.

 

[dwcraig1]

^^^ I'm interested in that Dremeled Kanger head, just which RBA head is it, the one with the vertical juice channels or the one with the holes on each side of the chamber?

 

[Landman]

^^^ I'm interested in that Dremeled Kanger head, just which RBA head is it, the one with the vertical juice channels or the one with the holes on each side of the chamber?

Vertical channels - used a dremel disk to make the channels a bit larger. I also remove the sharp corners next to the mount screw, the inside ones closest to the coil, so that the leg can come in at a bit more of an angle to the screw. Helps when running 24/26 ga Ti spaced coils... keeps from needing to make elbows in the leg.

 

[cigatron]

Spaced coils or compressed?

Slightly spaced.

 

[gorman]

Any SS430 European supplier come to light?

 

[cigatron]

Vertical channels - used a dremel disk to make the channels a bit larger. I also remove the sharp corners next to the mount screw, the inside ones closest to the coil, so that the leg can come in at a bit more of an angle to the screw. Helps when running 24/26 ga Ti spaced coils... keeps from needing to make elbows in the leg.

I think I've mentioned before, and no offense to @Landman , but modifying an STmini V1 RBA is not necessary imo to achieve a stellar vape at 40w with high vg juice (75vg). It's really all about the wicking on STminis, wick it correctly (wick tails smashed against the build deck and away from the juice channels) and there are no issues up to 40w. Modifying the width of the juice channels definitely helps to achieve higher wattages but my personal preferences for max wattage (40w) requires no mods. Rayon wicking will up your max wattage to sonewhere around 50w, but that's more wattage than I like to run (battery life issues).

The STmini V2 rba I have no experience with. In fact, I have no interest in it (reminds me too much of the Kanger Protanks and It's variants) and I've purchased three additional V1 RBAs just in case something happens with my existing stock.

Summarizing: Give the STmini V1 RBA a try "as is".

 

[Landman]

I think I've mentioned before, and no offense to @Landman , but modifying an STmini V1 RBA is not necessary imo to achieve a stellar vape at 40w with high vg juice (75vg). It's really all about the wicking on STminis, wick it correctly (wick tails smashed against the build deck and away from the juice channels) and there are no issues up to 40w. Modifying the width of the juice channels definitely helps to achieve higher wattages but my personal preferences for max wattage (40w) requires no mods. Rayon wicking will up your max wattage to sonewhere around 50w, but that's more wattage than I like to run (battery life issues).

The STmini V2 rba I have no experience with. In fact, I have no interest in it (reminds me too much of the Kanger Protanks and It's variants) and I've purchased three additional V1 RBAs just in case something happens with my existing stock.

Summarizing: Give the STmini V1 RBA a try "as is".

The channels were modified when I was using cotton

 

[WileE]

I'd still like to try some NiFe52... guess I'll have to get it from across the pond for now.

Only need to go to east coast if you want some. I posted 2 links earlier, but they where buried in the middle of a long post. Cottonman is in North Carolina & his shipping is included. http://www.cottonman.com/reactorwire.html
Or from Maryland http://www.vapevineonline.com/reactor-wire-p/reactor-wire.htm
It's expensive, but will be a lot cheaper then shipping from Zivipf's
This is the US Manufactured version of NiFe 52 that was released in Sept. As discussed way back somewhere in this thread, there are more then 6 versions of NiFe 52 & the US version has the highest resistance. Compare on Steam Engine. I did a head to head comparison of 2 different 27ga NiFe's verifing that SE correctly predicts resistance for both the Kanthal Nifithal 52 & the (U.S. made) Reactor Wire version.

If I haven't missed anything as of now the only verified options for NiFe52 are:

zivipf in Germany

http://www.zivipf.com/epages/638622...h=/Shops/63862298/Categories/Heizdraht/NiFe48
Jazzvapor, TheotherSteveS, & funkyrudi have this one right?

Reactor Wire USA
http://www.cottonman.com/reactorwire.html
I have this one in 26, 27, 28, & 31ga

Kanthal Nifethal 52
27ga . Is it the same as Zivipf's?

Question has anyone been able to verify that either Zivipf's NiFe 52 is genuine Kanthal brand Nifithal 52 or at least that it matches Steam Engine (which is based on genuine Kanthal specs)?

The reason I ask is because Zivipf list the 27ga as having 1.2Ω per ft, but my 27ga Nifithal is 1.1528Ω per ft (see picture)
Steam engine shows 1.104Ω per ft for 27ga Nifethal 52 & my crude but "real world" test of the actual 27ga Nifethal pictured resulted in just slightly less then Steam Engine predicted .32 actual vs .33 predicted
The 27ga Reactor Wire states 1.283Ω per ft on the package, Steam Engine is showing 1.2936Ω per ft & per my test it resulted in slightly higher then SE predicted .36 actual vs .35 predicted. My test was somewhat crude but both alloys were tested in as close to identical conditions as I could do. same coil jig, installed in same posts, on same atty, on same mod, both were oxidized with torch after coiling, both were pulsed till glowing even middle out, & both were allowed to cool 5 minutes after dry firing before checking final resistance.

 

[dwcraig1]

To keep it on topic let me say that it is coiled with Dicodes NiFe30, two strands twisted.
But anyone notice anything unusual here, it was pretty easy to do.

 

[cricque]

I tried some nife30 0,32mm from zipvipf today on my OBS crius .. And I must say very clean taste, easy to work with. I just put my ipv d2 in titanium mode set it 20F lower and fired it up. Works like a charm, very clean taste. 5 wraps + 2 legs, 2,5mm drill came out at 0,115 ohms. Just don't know yet about the flavor if I like it more then TI or not, since i got a cold . But I can say it tastes good at least equal to the TI coils I have used so far.

 

[Landman]

To keep it on topic let me say that it is coiled with Dicodes NiFe30, two strands twisted.
But anyone notice anything unusual here, it was pretty easy to do.

Looks like an original Subtank base using either a DIY modified STM deck or the new V2 mini deck.

 

[dwcraig1]

Looks like an original Subtank base using either a DIY modified STM deck or the new V2 mini deck.

You got it, it out performs the modified (channel enlargement) v1 RBA head of Subtank mini.
My RBA for it worked pretty good too after I got the Dremel after it but air flow is hurting on that one with it's skinny chimney tube.
Oh ,V2 head
Not deck

 

[Landman]

Only need to go to east coast if you want some. I posted 2 links earlier, but they where buried in the middle of a long post. Cottonman is in North Carolina & his shipping is included. http://www.cottonman.com/reactorwire.html
Or from Maryland http://www.vapevineonline.com/reactor-wire-p/reactor-wire.htm
It's expensive, but will be a lot cheaper then shipping from Zivipf's
This is the US Manufactured version of NiFe 52 that was released in Sept. As discussed way back somewhere in this thread, there are more then 6 versions of NiFe 52 & the US version has the highest resistance. Compare on Steam Engine. I did a head to head comparison of 2 different 27ga NiFe's verifing that SE correctly predicts resistance for both the Kanthal Nifithal 52 & the (U.S. made) Reactor Wire version.

If I haven't missed anything as of now the only verified options for NiFe52 are:

zivipf in Germany

http://www.zivipf.com/epages/638622...h=/Shops/63862298/Categories/Heizdraht/NiFe48
Jazzvapor, TheotherSteveS, & funkyrudi have this one right?

Reactor Wire USA
http://www.cottonman.com/reactorwire.html
I have this one in 26, 27, 28, & 31ga

Kanthal Nifethal 52
27ga . Is it the same as Zivipf's?
View attachment 501659

Question has anyone been able to verify that either Zivipf's NiFe 52 is genuine Kanthal brand Nifithal 52 or at least that it matches Steam Engine (which is based on genuine Kanthal specs)?

The reason I ask is because Zivipf list the 27ga as having 1.2Ω per ft, but my 27ga Nifithal is 1.1528Ω per ft (see picture)
Steam engine shows 1.104Ω per ft for 27ga Nifethal 52 & my crude but "real world" test of the actual 27ga Nifethal pictured resulted in just slightly less then Steam Engine predicted .32 actual vs .33 predicted
The 27ga states 1.283Ω per ft on the package, Steam Engine is showing 1.2936Ω per ft & per my test it resulted in slightly higher then SE predicted .36 actual vs .35 predicted. My test was somewhat crude but both alloys were tested in as close to identical conditions as I could do. same coil jig, installed in same posts, on same atty, on same mod, both were oxidized with torch after coiling, both were pulsed till glowing even middle out, & both were allowed to cool 5 minutes after dry firing before checking final resistance.

Thanks for the links - I missed them earlier. 32' of 26 ga with shipping from zivipf is just under $12... that's a lot cheaper cost/foot than either of those selling the reactor wire.

 

[FlexibleAsARock]

checked tracking on my so called NiFe52 from Unkamans an most recent scan is still showing as arrived in kansas city, ks at 8:20 p.m. Oct 24th
Expected delivery day is yesterday Oct 26th...wasn't in the mailbox today either.
I hope it never shows up so i don't have to bother sending it back

 

[funkyrudi]

Only need to go to east coast if you want some. I posted 2 links earlier, but they where buried in the middle of a long post. Cottonman is in North Carolina & his shipping is included. http://www.cottonman.com/reactorwire.html
Or from Maryland http://www.vapevineonline.com/reactor-wire-p/reactor-wire.htm
It's expensive, but will be a lot cheaper then shipping from Zivipf's
This is the US Manufactured version of NiFe 52 that was released in Sept. As discussed way back somewhere in this thread, there are more then 6 versions of NiFe 52 & the US version has the highest resistance. Compare on Steam Engine. I did a head to head comparison of 2 different 27ga NiFe's verifing that SE correctly predicts resistance for both the Kanthal Nifithal 52 & the (U.S. made) Reactor Wire version.

If I haven't missed anything as of now the only verified options for NiFe52 are:

zivipf in Germany

http://www.zivipf.com/epages/638622...h=/Shops/63862298/Categories/Heizdraht/NiFe48
Jazzvapor, TheotherSteveS, & funkyrudi have this one right?

Reactor Wire USA
http://www.cottonman.com/reactorwire.html
I have this one in 26, 27, 28, & 31ga

Kanthal Nifethal 52
27ga . Is it the same as Zivipf's?
View attachment 501659

Question has anyone been able to verify that either Zivipf's NiFe 52 is genuine Kanthal brand Nifithal 52 or at least that it matches Steam Engine (which is based on genuine Kanthal specs)?

The reason I ask is because Zivipf list the 27ga as having 1.2Ω per ft, but my 27ga Nifithal is 1.1528Ω per ft (see picture)
Steam engine shows 1.104Ω per ft for 27ga Nifethal 52 & my crude but "real world" test of the actual 27ga Nifethal pictured resulted in just slightly less then Steam Engine predicted .32 actual vs .33 predicted
The 27ga Reactor Wire states 1.283Ω per ft on the package, Steam Engine is showing 1.2936Ω per ft & per my test it resulted in slightly higher then SE predicted .36 actual vs .35 predicted. My test was somewhat crude but both alloys were tested in as close to identical conditions as I could do. same coil jig, installed in same posts, on same atty, on same mod, both were oxidized with torch after coiling, both were pulsed till glowing even middle out, & both were allowed to cool 5 minutes after dry firing before checking final resistance.

Zivipf sells Kanthal´s Nifetal 70 + 52 for sure.

I asked Thomas, the Zivipf owner, to get some NiFe30, because the Dicodes one was very expansive. He ordered wire and sent me some samples. I measured the Ohm/m, which was lower than the Dicodes, and made a dry cotton test on my SXK mod. I found out that the TCR should be around 0.0050. My measurement matched to the Kanthal datasheet. So I wrote Thomas my results and that he got the wire from Kanthal. Because Thomas was able to get wires from Kanthal, I asked him to get the even more interesting NiFe52 please too. Thomas said ok and asked me for a recommendation of wire sizes. I told him 4 sizes, but he ordered a lot more . When Thomas offered the NiFe52 in his shop, there was some confusion, because the Ohm/m was different to the values in the Kanthal Databook from 2012

http://www.kanthal.com/Global/Downloads/Materials in wire and strip form/Resistance heating wire and strip/S-KA026-B-ENG-2012-01.pdf

I asked Thomas about the different values and he told me that he calculated the values with
Electrical resistivity at 20°C Ω mm2/m 0.37
which I could find in the datasheet http://kanthal.com/en/products/mate...heating-wire-and-resistance-wire/nifethal-52/ ( from 2013 ).
I checked his values and he was right. When I got 5 of these wires, I checked and measured the Ohm/m with a Keithley Microohm meter.
So Kanthal is verified for my person.

Your case
I can`t find the Ohm/ft on Zivipf but the Ohm/m which is 3.8 Om/m for AWG27
1 m = 3,28084 ft
1.1528 Ohm/ft * 3,28084 = 3.79086572 Ohm/m I dont care the extra 0,00913Ohm/m
So the label on your spool is authentic.

I don`t know why American shops don`t order Kanthal wires and order Chinese wires instead. Profit? Sandvic/Kanthal is all over the world.
Nifethal is an alloy of only two elements. Dicodes´ Resitherm NiFe30 is an alloy of 5 elemements and has a lower TCR but higher Ohm/m compared to Nifethal NiFe70.
The datasheet posted two pages earlier, shows 4 or 5 sub-elements and will have a different TCR and Ohm/m for sure.

 

[jazzvaper]

I just ordered more from Zivipf: 2 X 26 awg and one 24 awg. My sense is getting the ohms lower is a good idea.

Wrapped 9 wraps of 26 awg (0.31) getting closer to where I want to be. Really looking forward to the 24 awg. Thinking 9 wraps for 0.18-0.19 ohms.