TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

[TheBloke]

hang on...so some of these devices are asking about reisistance lock??

No I don't think so - @Shogun1024 said "My device has the resistance lock/New Atomizer question" - I think he meant that the New Atomizer question is itself the resistance lock, which is correct - because if you say Same, it uses the locked resistance. I don't think he meant a new-dna-40 style Atty Lock which disables refinement (which is what you're meaning, right?)

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Hum!

Well this is very confusing. I suppose we only have @Shogun1024 's single measurement (0.14 versus 0.15 reference point) to say resistance is improved.

@Shogun1024 do you think you could do some further tests, comparing resistances on your new Zero versus other mods and your ohm reader, at different ohms levels? Eg 0.10, 0.20, 0.40, 0.60?

Below are the figures @balazsk got with his device, can you see how yours compare?



@balazsk could you confirm if your mod has the New Atomizer Up/Donw question? I was assuming not (and so it is 'batch 1'), but if it fact does then that's different and you have already confirmed for the new batch.

@TheotherSteveS - is it always 0.04? And what base resistance is that for? Will it read 0.14 as 0.10 and 0.54 as 0.50, or does it vary across the range?

so far I have 0.15 reading 0.11, 0.13 reading 0.09 and I think my STM RBA build at 0.2ish is reading 0.16 but I need to check the last one...

All Ni so far...

 

[TheotherSteveS]

No I don't think so - @Shogun1024 said "My device has the resistance lock/New Atomizer question" - I think he meant that the New Atomizer question is itself the resistance lock, which is correct - because if you say Same, it uses the locked resistance. I don't think he meant a new-DNA-40 style Atty Lock which disables refinement (which is what you're meaning, right?)

Ok, all clear. On that note I see no sign of refinement tyoe activity on these in contrast to the Kangxin (although that was only happening with the subtank ni heads...)

 

[ndb70]

Ok, all clear. On that note I see no sign of refinement tyoe activity on these in contrast to the Kangxin (although that was only happening with the subtank ni heads...)

Confirmed, one of the few tests I was able to perform on the zero clone was exactly that: took a base reading of about 0.12 (for an atty read as 0.16 elsewhere,), short couple of fires to get up to 0.15, unscrewed / rescrewed, answered "yes" to "new coil", the chip read it as 0.15 as it was still hot and never went back to 0.12 in more than 2 hours, then a new unscrew/rescrew/new-coil cycle did immediately set back to 0.12.
I think this comes down to have the refinement become an "on-demand" activity: i.e. the default is to keep the calibrated resistance forever, if you want to calibrate you just unscrew/rescrew and answer yes.
The opposite approach, if you want, than on DNA, where it refines by default unless you explicitly lock it.

 

[TheBloke]

OK well 0.20 reading 0.16 is already an improvement over @balazsk 's reading - he had a 0.196 coil with a delta of 0.6, and it gets worse the higher it goes up

Would be great if you guys could do some tests with a 0.40 or 0.50 coil - I detect at least 0.7-0.8 at that level, around what @balazsk found too.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

OK well 0.20 reading 0.16 is already an improvement over @balazsk 's reading - he had a 0.196 coil with a delta of 0.6, and it gets worse the higher it goes up

Would be great if you guys could do some tests with a 0.40 or 0.50 coil - I detect at least 0.7-0.8 at that level, around what @balazsk found too.

will do!

btw, used your spreadsheet for my atlants. Cranked up the NP to 0.78 (deltaR=-0.04ohms). with the t set to 500 (as it was before) starting to get burnt so backed off to 460F and all seems fine and a more physically reasonable temp to be using. noticed your np doesnt go above 0.78. any reason for that??

great job with this btw!!

 

[TheBloke]

@TheotherSteveS only that I hadn't bothered to copy down more rows

OK spreadsheet updated, it now checks Resistivity values from -12 to +33, and the delta from the wire resistivity is now shown in the left column (also makes it much easier for me to add more rows)

Re-copy/download if you have already taken a copy before time of this post.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

now i get 0.75 whatever values i plug in for Rs or target temp...

 

[TheBloke]

Sorry, fixed

 

[Shogun1024]

Well I'm out and about but tried my buddies Ni200 OCC which reads .17 on his dna40 and it reads .17 on my Zero. This wasn't fired in between or heated whatsoever. Maybe I just got the golden egg per se but seems it's pretty much dead on in my case. I would try a higher build later when I'm around my supplies but I only currently have 24ga Ti so .4-.5 is going to be very hard to reach. I have some 30 & 32 coming though.

 

[TheBloke]

Well I'm out and about but tried my buddies Ni200 OCC which reads .17 on his dna40 and it reads .17 on my Zero. This wasn't fired in between or heated whatsoever. Maybe I just got the golden egg per se but seems it's pretty much dead on in my case. I would try a higher build later when I'm around my supplies but I only currently have 24ga Ti so .4-.5 is going to be very hard to reach. I have some 30 & 32 coming though.

Ok thanks a lot. It doesn't have to be Nickel, if you have any Kanthal coils or coil heads (when you're back home) that would be great. No worries if not, thanks for your testing so far

You mentioned that your first reading, 0.14 vs 0.15, was against some kind of ohm reader? (rather than another mod?) Which device do you have?

 

[Shogun1024]

A USA ohm reader, supposedly one of the more accurate to 0.018 is their quote.

USA Made Blue Transparent Ohm Meter *BLUE LED*

This is my exact meter. And on the mod it read 0.14 on the meter 0.151, if I let the atty rest for a couple of minutes till it felt room temperature but was probably just a little warm it would read .15 on the mod. VERY close so far but yes I have every size of Kanthal from 38ga to 18ga at home so I'll whip something up when I get the time.

 

[dems86]

A USA ohm reader, supposedly one of the more accurate to 0.0018 is their quote.

USA Made Blue Transparent Ohm Meter *BLUE LED*

This is my exact meter. And on the mod it read 0.14 on the meter 0.151, if I let the atty rest for a couple of minutes till it felt room temperature but was probably just a little warm it would read .15 on the mod. VERY close so far but yes I have every size of Kanthal from 38ga to 18ga at home so I'll whip something up when I get the time.

Accurate to 0.018*

 

[TheBloke]

Ok thanks Shogun. So worst case a reading of 0.14 on the mod and 0.151 on the reader could be 0.167 on the reader, a difference of 0.027. Still much lower than anyone else is getting, and within the accuracy range of any normal mod (and in fact a generally fairly useful difference in that it would counteract static resistance for most attys.)

Let's see how it plays out with other readings on that device and other readings on the new SXK's of others. I'm trying to track down others who have the new chip - there's a couple of potentials in the Geeco and Vapor Flask threads, I'm waiting to hear back from them as to whether they have the New Atomizer message.

Of course we can't rule out that there's been three revisions. Revision 1, no New Atomizer message, very low readings (as per @balazsk 's readings and my tests); Revision 2, New Atomizer message and still low but maybe not as bad (as per @TheotherSteveS ); Revision 3, New Atomizer and fixed readings as per @Shogun1024 .

The Zero has been on FT for a while, constantly selling out, so they may have got onto Revision 3 faster than other devices.

I'm going to email Allen @ SXK tonight, so he gets it first thing China time, to ask him directly. I know Quantum Mech has also asked him about it, but that was when we thought New Atomizer definitely = fixed resistance, and now we're not completely sure.

Such are the trials and tribulations of being early adopters, on the cutting edge

 

[TheBloke]

Hey @TheBloke i have been getting the same 0.04 misread as well. I didn't know that the problem was the flask until I read your post. But now that I did that's exactly how low mine is reading in Kanthal & temp. protect modes. So right now I am using the Kanger ni200 OCCs. Should my NP still be set at 70?? Also have some 28g that should be here tomorrow. How do I figure out NP setting for these?

Hi Unior

Firstly, can you confirm if you have a New Atomizer Up/Same down question?

Secondly, can you confirm if it's a flat 0.04 difference? So for example if a 0.20 coil reads 0.16 on your Flask, does a 0.50 coil read as 0.46? Is it a flat 0.04 across all ranges of resistances, or is it higher resistances? For example when I make a coil of 0.60 I will get a reading around 0.52 - 0.53 - a difference of up to 0.08 at that base resistance.

Thirdly, here is a link to my post regarding a Google Spreadsheet calculator I wrote last night:

Nickel Purity / Static Resistance calculator

Read the instructions in that post then use the spreadsheet to put in the wire type (Ni200), actual resistance (as measured on another mod that you trust), the read resistance (as read on the SXK Flask), the target temperature you want, and then it tells you the NP settings. You might still need to play with this figures. For example if you're used to setting an OCC coil to 500 you might need to set it lower with the adjusted NP - that's what @TheotherSteveS found. 500 is in any case an unusually high setting, to counteract Ni200 coil heads not being too reliable, so using a more realistic setting is better if possible.

It's not guaranteed, we're still playing with it, but it gives you some guidance to play with. There's lots more info in this thread as well.

Same will apply with real Ni200 wire - it's all about the delta between the real resistance and the read resistance.

 

[balazsk]

Hum!

Well this is very confusing. I suppose we only have @Shogun1024 's single measurement (0.14 versus 0.15 reference point) to say resistance is improved.

@Shogun1024 do you think you could do some further tests, comparing resistances on your new Zero versus other mods and your ohm reader, at different ohms levels? Eg 0.10, 0.20, 0.40, 0.60?

Below are the figures @balazsk got with his device, can you see how yours compare?



@balazsk could you confirm if your mod has the New Atomizer Up/Donw question? I was assuming not (and so it is 'batch 1'), but if it fact does then that's different and you have already confirmed for the new batch.

@TheotherSteveS and @ndb70 - is it always -0.04? And what base resistance is that for? Will it read 0.14 as 0.10 and 0.54 as 0.50, or does it vary across the range?

My VS is from the very first batch. I have ordered it on the day when it was listed.
I've measured some resistors on my DNA30 it is accurate and measures almost the same as the Ohm meter (just rounded).

 

[TheBloke]

Great thanks @balazsk - so you have no New Atomizer Up/Same Down message of course?

 

[balazsk]

Unfortunately I don't have, but it would be great! I have written a message to SXK to ask about a firmware update for the old chips. I don't think that it's possible but maybe we have a chance.

 

[funkyrudi]

@TheBloke The calculator looks great, but I have to study it another day. My eyes are to tired for numbers today. I have to work through the last pages another day, too.

Great job Tom

 

[balazsk]

I think this is a good news, 40W (probably) SXK VF:
Vapor Flask V3 DNA40 Temperature Control 40W VW Mod