TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance
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Yeah and 260°C is not too far over the ballpark to be quite usable. It's going to singe cotton but as long as you don't get the coil completely dry, it will be a good vape.
But underheating coils is - sadly for most purposes - starting to be a thing. So we might well see other mods that achieve more like 230-240 when the numbers say 263. I will test a bunch more tonight.
But underheating coils is - sadly for most purposes - starting to be a thing. So we might well see other mods that achieve more like 230-240 when the numbers say 263. I will test a bunch more tonight.
Just to add that with SS 3XX the choice is 0.00105 for SS 304, or nearer 0.009 for 316/317.
Eg 316 is 0.000913 at 230°C, dropping to 0.000902 at 250°C.
28 gauge Stainless Steel Wire - Nickel Free - 200 Feet - Introductory – Unkamen Supplies it says in the description that it's 430 SS.
I've ordered a bunch of 304 and I'll test it quite soon. N200 has pretty much destroyed my palate in two days of moderate vaping... I've switched to titanium and it's now healing. But now I'm quite worried about nickel content, because I come from Kanthal, which doesn't contain nickel at all... let's hope that the 10% in 304 is not enough to trigger my sensitivity.
I've been told of two reports of people with nickel sensitivities who have tested NiFe52 - 52+% nickel - and it didn't trigger them. One of them apparently with a severe allergy, not just sensitivity.
It could vary with different types of metals and alloys, but the signs are looking very good that %s of nickel of 50% or lower are generally fine. Unknown as yet on NiFe70.
Just a heads up about this... Last year (way before TC appeared) a certain vendor was selling 34 gauge Ti which, when heavily dry burned on a mech mod, can in fact catch fire which you can't put out conventionally. This happens to SS too and also holds true for a few other metals.
A 28/26/24 gauge Ti wire will never ignite with the power we have available in our mods. We are talking about super thin wire (34awg).
You can pseudo scientifically safe dry burn a Ti coil if you have a dna 200 mod. Just program a profile with a 0.007 TCR, set it to 300C and 10-20W and it will limit the dry burn to 600C which is a safe temperature to avoid TiO2 formation. 6 seconds and you have a shiny clean coil with a blue hue. No scrubbing needed. Btw, that wasn't my idea (unfortunately [emoji14]). Credits go to another ECF member.
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
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might be an obvious answer, but im a simpleton. if i wanted to set a custom tcr, but wanted a more accurate curve, how would one go about figuring the temp/resistance info that the steam engine calc spits out? sorry if this a moronic question.
I cancelled my order on Tuesday as it didn't ship yet and they promised a full refund. I was happy since this NiFe70 is crap.
However I still haven't got my money back, also I sent them email yesterday asking them what happened to the refund and they still didn't reply to me.
That's what I call really bad service.
On the good side I ordered some Titanium from Stealthvape cause all the reviews are positive and most of my mods have Ti as an option.
Even for the DNA40 I have your chart @ TheBloke [emoji1]
might be an obvious answer, but im a simpleton. if i wanted to set a custom tcr, but wanted a more accurate curve, how would one go about figuring the temp/resistance info that the steam engine calc spits out? sorry if this a moronic question.
I need this too so I don't post stupid stuff again...
Well, maybe more like backwards...unless ur lisDexic
might be an obvious answer, but im a simpleton. if i wanted to set a custom tcr, but wanted a more accurate curve, how would one go about figuring the temp/resistance info that the steam engine calc spits out? sorry if this a moronic question.
If I'm understanding your question correctly, the best thing to do is to use @vapealone 's excellent spreadsheet.
Go to the TCR tab, and you will see that the columns are wires, and the rows are temperatures. So, choose the temperature you are going to vape at, let's say 230°C, and then look up the TCR value for your wire at that temperature. Use that as your single TCR figure.
For example, we see that SS 304 @ 230°C is 0.001049, so that would be a TCR setting of 11 on an SXK/Reliant (edit: actually 12, as it appears to use a different scale), or 105 on the Dicodes. On the Smok XCube 2 it would be 0.0011.
Ni200 is much more curved - at 230°C it's 0.00544, so this value is a better approximation than the general value of '0.006' that is often used.
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Is that what you meant? I don't quite follow what you meant by resistance info for example?
Edit: Oh, probably you are referring to the "Resistance Factor"? Do you have a DNA 200? If so you can use the Resistance Factor values to create your own TCR curve CSV file. But you can also just download one direct from Steam Engine, so you don't have to do it yourself.
For other mods, with a single TCR, it's easier to use vapealone's spreadsheet to pick the right TCR for your target temp.
Edit: Oh, probably you are referring to the "Resistance Factor"? Do you have a DNA 200? If so you can use the Resistance Factor values to create your own TCR curve CSV file. But you can also just download one direct from Steam Engine, so you don't have to do it yourself.
For other mods, with a single TCR, it's easier to use vapealone's spreadsheet to pick the right TCR for your target temp.
so sorry i'm not very clear, and maybe im making it too complicated for myself.
tony suggested setting a tcr value "Just program a profile with a 0.007 TCR" (i know i can do that with escribe custom wire setting). when i do that, i see that its just a straight line with 3 temp data points (-100, 70, 800) and not 7 (-100, 0, 70, 200, 400, 600, 800).
so if for instance i buy some ss430 from unkaman, and i wanted an accurate tcr csv for that particular wire, should i just create a custom profile, click "special" and type in 0.0014 and live with that (-100, 70, 800). or, should i somehow figure out what the other temp points are and create a custom profile from that?
i hope im not digging myself deeper, so sorry, and thanks so much for trying to help.
tony suggested setting a tcr value "Just program a profile with a 0.007 TCR" (i know i can do that with escribe custom wire setting). when i do that, i see that its just a straight line with 3 temp data points (-100, 70, 800) and not 7 (-100, 0, 70, 200, 400, 600, 800).
so if for instance i buy some ss430 from unkaman, and i wanted an accurate tcr csv for that particular wire, should i just create a custom profile, click "special" and type in 0.0014 and live with that (-100, 70, 800). or, should i somehow figure out what the other temp points are and create a custom profile from that?
i hope im not digging myself deeper, so sorry, and thanks so much for trying to help.
Ah I see, well for what Tony said, you just want to use the Single Value TCR setting to enter 0.007. You're only interested in the TCR at 600°C, and in any case Titanium is very flat so you don't really need a curve.
For the SS 430, @balazsk has done a graph showing several temperature points. And hopefully @vapealone will add it to his spreadsheet, which will include the DNA 200 CSV file for it. And @Dampmaskin will hopefully also add it to Steam Engine in time, also including a DNA 200 file for it.
So I don't think you'll need to do any manual work.
If you do want to know how to do it, here's an example of a CSV file for eScribe:
"Temperature (degF)","Electrical Resistivity"
-58,0.776
68,1
212,1.256
302,1.416
392,1.576
482,1.736
572,1.896
800,2.3013333333
-58,0.776
68,1
212,1.256
302,1.416
392,1.576
482,1.736
572,1.896
800,2.3013333333
The first column is the degrees in F, the second is the Resistance Factor like you see on Steam Engine. So to create such a file, you would look up the resistance factors for SS 430, usually found in a datasheet, and enter them into that file, Save As something.csv, then Import into eSCribe. Or you can create it in eScribe itself.
I don't know where @balazsk found his resistance factors for SS 430 - I can't find any on Google right now. There must be a data sheet out there that shows them. He probably posted it to this thread as well if we search backwards.
You will be good simply entering TCR. Escribe will take care of the temp/TFR pairs.
It's my view that while curves look really cool, I cannot really see that they are overall that important for practical TC. At least with the wires we use today.
I find it quite telling that the DNA 40 was the only Ni200 mod that implemented the curve for Ni200. None of the others bothered, but many/most are still regarded as very accurate. And that's for Ni200, the curviest and least sensitive/accurate of all the wires in use today.
Wires such as Titanium and the NiFes are both very linear, and much more accurate. SS less so (on both counts), but still doesn't vary a huge amount in its TCR.
And even when a wire is curved, we always care only about a small range of temperatures. We don't care about heating to 100 or 150 or usually even 200°C. We care about 230, maybe 220, maybe 240. Maybe a couple more too, but certainly not the full range. And the single TCR for that temperature can be entered, and it will be fully accurate at that temperature, or more than good enough accurate at surrounding temperatures (well within the margins of accuracy we have from SR in our atomizers, varying coils, etc.)
Furthermore, where we do have the resistance factors to create the curve, we usually don't have them for every 10°C, more like 50°C at best or even only 100°C. @vapealone has done a great job interpolating those figures to give us a value for every 10°C, but it is still just an interpolation based on the published numbers which are every 50 or 100°C. So in the range we do care about - let's say every 5°C between 200 and 250°C - we almost certainly don't have precise curve data anyway, just the starting and ending values.
Of course use a curve if you have a DNA 200 and curve data is available. But we shouldn't think that they are vital, or even that important, for accurate TC. And with wires like Titanium and NiFes, they are pretty irrelevant because the TCR barely changes anyway.
I find it quite telling that the DNA 40 was the only Ni200 mod that implemented the curve for Ni200. None of the others bothered, but many/most are still regarded as very accurate. And that's for Ni200, the curviest and least sensitive/accurate of all the wires in use today.
Wires such as Titanium and the NiFes are both very linear, and much more accurate. SS less so (on both counts), but still doesn't vary a huge amount in its TCR.
And even when a wire is curved, we always care only about a small range of temperatures. We don't care about heating to 100 or 150 or usually even 200°C. We care about 230, maybe 220, maybe 240. Maybe a couple more too, but certainly not the full range. And the single TCR for that temperature can be entered, and it will be fully accurate at that temperature, or more than good enough accurate at surrounding temperatures (well within the margins of accuracy we have from SR in our atomizers, varying coils, etc.)
Furthermore, where we do have the resistance factors to create the curve, we usually don't have them for every 10°C, more like 50°C at best or even only 100°C. @vapealone has done a great job interpolating those figures to give us a value for every 10°C, but it is still just an interpolation based on the published numbers which are every 50 or 100°C. So in the range we do care about - let's say every 5°C between 200 and 250°C - we almost certainly don't have precise curve data anyway, just the starting and ending values.
Of course use a curve if you have a DNA 200 and curve data is available. But we shouldn't think that they are vital, or even that important, for accurate TC. And with wires like Titanium and NiFes, they are pretty irrelevant because the TCR barely changes anyway.
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