The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Ive only had a few interactions with you on here but you seem like a real stand up and helpful person. Im terribly sorry to hear about your son. Positive thoughts and prayers from me and mine to you and your family. Did your son vape? It might be kind of cool to make a commemorative juice in his honor. Something you can load up a tank with and think about all the good times.

Thank you, my friend. Brandon did not vape, or smoke.....cigarettes. He did like the other stuff, it appears. He passed from alcohol poisoning. Tragic, incomprehensible, and he is not gone, as far as I'm concerned. I still expect him to walk through that door any time. It's so strange....He was only 26, and had only begun the grown-up stuff just a little while back. His future was promising, he was smart, talented, but he had a big, big heart, and a lot of emptiness in his gut from my divorce with his Mother 20 years ago, or so. I had the good fortune to live with Brandon for 18 months, ending just a year ago. We worked on many of his issues. I got him into the right programs. Returning to Phoenix a year ago, to his siblings and Mother, was detrimental, though. Wrong environment....little or no understanding of what he was battling. Not something you just 'shake off". I beat it 31 years ago, yet am still aware of the issues on a daily basis, retaining a good deal of fear because of the possible return to the impossible. A healthy fear, though. Keeps me safe.

Maybe a clever name for a new juice would be a great idea. Brandon's Own, Favorite, or Choice....I can see something like that. Give it some thought. I like your suggestion. Thank you!

Like so many on this thread, there is great information about this DIY stuff. I've only been doing it for a couple of years. I've been vaping since 2009, on and off, but off now a while....off of smokes I mean. Finding my juices and my preferred gear has allowed me to cut spending by 90% over the last year or so, and given me time, and money, to focus on the juice. I know that anyone can take these recipes and make money with them. I don't mind at all, and do hope all vapers can prosper, in something that is so helpful to so many. Quitting smoking is no joke, as we all know. It's big time HARD. With the right gear, and the right juice, we have a chance now. I stopped the first day that I vaped with good gear and good, strong juice. Two earlier attempts with bad juice, and weak gear did not get me across the goal line. I am thankful every day for this, and give back, what I can. I know a little, but I'm no expert. If I can help others, by sharing my experiences, then I'm satisfied with that, and happy to help. There are no real secret recipes out there anymore, and new juice websites pop up all the time, some quite good. I've stuck with the TFA flavors and done fine with them. I can't imagine acquiring say 100 different flavorings from another vendor, but I know that some do, and swear by it. I don't mind working with what I have, and it's been just fine so far.

My battle with Vanilla Custard was my biggest challenge. More than 90 days, probably 120 days to get that one down. Here it is, BMV's Vanilla Custard (I call it Circus Maximus):

All TFA Flavorings:

Vanilla Custard - 13%
Sweetener - 6%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream - 3.5%
Eggnog - 2%
Smooth - 2%
Butter - 2%
Graham Cracker - 1.5%

If you've tried to make this one, it's really tough, or it was for me. I started off shooting for a Grant's Vanilla Custard, and this is where I ended up 3 - 4 months later, and no steeping time required. My first attempts required up to 4 weeks steeping time - and that was to allow the eggnog to settle down. When I finally changed back to TFA eggnog and reduced the amount and changed from other Capella Flavorings, it came together in probably a week or two. That was over a year ago, as I recall. I've had a lot of good feedback on this one. I don't think I can make it better. But who knows? Maybe you guys can help me out? I'm very open minded, as long as we use TFA, my only requirement, and the only place I can buy wholesale!

I wish more vapers would post their recipes. I know at some point, if you stick to it, you can easily make better juice than you can buy, and that could easily lead to opportunities in the real world, and without much effort. It did for me, without any effort, other than the passion of good juice making. People will find you out, it seems.....did me. So, I'm going to give the new Brandon Juice some thought. I keep a Juice Journal, writing down all my vaping thoughts, ideas for juices, etc. The new Brandon Juice page has now started. Thank you all again! Kindest regards.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hey Bill! Thank you. This is a great idea.

Now, for the additional flavors... The only two I know of are caramel and brown sugar. Those are definitely added to real analogs. The nut idea intrigues me. Let's see, we have pecan, pralines and cream, and I don't know what else.

Have you any experience using the TFA Pralines and Cream flavor? I'll bet not, since it's a blended flavoring and the single flavors are where you concentrate.

I've been thinking about this. I have six tobacco flavors. I've been tempted to try a little tiny bit of all of them in one recipe. I'll bet you'll say, "It won't work. All the tobacco flavors are already blended with something else. It will be a mess." Yes?

So, the tobacco flavors that aren't natural extract tobacco are really fruit flavors? Is that what you meant? (Banging head on table, and sighing.)

I'll stop there and see what you have to say.

Tim

PS
You mentioned TFA Apple Pie in an earlier post. I have that flavor and all I can taste is coconut. There isn't a hint of apple or anything else. Just coconut.

A lot of material here. Ok, first my Pralines and Cream Recipe:

Hazelnut Praline - 6%
Vanilla Custard - 5%
Bavarian Cream - 5%
Sweetener - 4%

So, a 20% mix and a family favorite. Either you like hazelnut, or you don't, seems to be the consensus. If you do, you will probably like this. Very good, very vapeable, and an easy recipe, with ingredients we commonly use for many recipes, other than the hazelnut praline mix. Perhaps if I knew how to make praline flavor, I would make this with other bases, but I don't.....yet. Anybody know? The other additions make this one pop. Great flavor. I like my creams, as you know!

I started off a long time ago on tobaccos, and did mainly make single ingredient mixes. I liked Desert Ship, a Turkish tobacco, and the missus vaped that for 6 months. I discovered pastries and switched to them pretty early so never pursued them. In my experience, though, I did purchase the tobacco flavoring book from TFA and about 20 different flavoring chemicals....all types, from TFA. I bought the KIT. I was surprised to learn that most Tobacco flavorings are a mixture of two or more fruit flavorings. Yes, you heard that right. Not tobacco abstracts, which we call NET's, of course, but the mixed flavorings. That fact interested me a lot, because it makes us understand that mixing flavors may result in completely new flavors, unrelated to where they started. I was intrigued. I don't work with tobacco's any longer, so I can't throw out some good recipes, but I can tell you that I had good luck with My Freedom Smokes Desert ship at about 5 - 6% flavoring. I also made the Marlboro light flavor from their USA light. Both were good. I did not pursue tobacco's, so this is all I learned.

Regarding TFA Apple Pie, much better with regular old TFA Apple and TFA Pie crust. Then add the nuanced flavors, i.e., whipped cream, graham cracker, sweeteners, creams, vanillas, etc. My earlier recipe is the real deal....probably my best. As I mentioned, the Apple Pie flavoring will not get you to where you want to go, imho, or at least, it wouldn't for me. I couldn't get any percentage to say, "Wow," No wow factor, no juice. It can be used as a mix. Some cereals are very hard to make, because the doughy flavor is hard to achieve. Apple Pie is one flavor, though, that can help here. I usually go for the soggy milk sweet bottom of the bowl flavor with cereals, but you don't have to go that way. You can go for the cereal flavoring without milk, and apple pie is one way to get there. So, my two cents on this.

 

[jensy]

Bill I always love reading about all your knowledge on DIY ejuice but I normally don't chime in . I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss . I really wish I could say some words of wisdom to help ease the pain you must be feeling but alas I am at a loss, and not even sure if those words exist. Take care.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Bill, Your’s was one of the first names I learned around here. Always there, always helpful. I am so, so sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine the pain. Wishing you strength during this time of tragedy. Naming a juice in honor of your son is a wonderful idea. Take care.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill I always love reading about all your knowledge on DIY ejuice but I normally don't chime in . I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss . I really wish I could say some words of wisdom to help ease the pain you must be feeling but alas I am at a loss, and not even sure if those words exist. Take care.

I don't think words can do it, so I don't know if we should even try sometimes? I appreciate the sentiments, I really do, and from everyone. All we can do, really...thank you! Thank you all!

 

[cliffy15]

Bill, I'm very sorry for your loss. :-(

I'm only a few weeks into diy and I haven't created anything worth posting the recipe to, yet, but the advice I've found here has been invaluable.

I needed more stuff so I can experiment with more batches at once and am in the process of upgrading my UC for sterling purposes.

If anyone has some advice regarding my green apple flavor, I'm all ears. The single flavor tastes alright but is lacking a depth and fullness that I am searching for without a dessert additive.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill, I'm very sorry for your loss. :-(

I'm only a few weeks into diy and I haven't created anything worth posting the recipe to, yet, but the advice I've found here has been invaluable.

I needed more stuff so I can experiment with more batches at once and am in the process of upgrading my UC for sterling purposes.

If anyone has some advice regarding my green apple flavor, I'm all ears. The single flavor tastes alright but is lacking a depth and fullness that I am searching for without a dessert additive.

Thank you my friend.

The green apple. Have you tried increasing your flavor percentage? If so, what happened. I think green apple, I think caramel and sweetener as additives. A small amount of raspberry can knock out the chemical taste of some single flavors without killing the predominant flavor. I might try something like that. Also, you can go the green apple candy route by adding Sweet and Tart. It adds a whole lotta goodness to mediocre flavors. Or just sour, or just sweet, or even a big ol' scoop of cotton candy, so to speak. Really a lot to play with here. I still think it's the journey, and not always the destination, that makes it fun for me. Good luck!

 

[tdtyler]

In my experience, though, I did purchase the tobacco flavoring book from TFA and about 20 different flavoring chemicals....all types, from TFA. I bought the KIT. I was surprised to learn that most Tobacco flavorings are a mixture of two or more fruit flavorings. Yes, you heard that right. Not tobacco abstracts, which we call NET's, of course, but the mixed flavorings. That fact interested me a lot, because it makes us understand that mixing flavors may result in completely new flavors, unrelated to where they started.

The tobacco flavoring kit and book aren't listed on the Perfumer's Apprentice website. I wanted to check it out. There's plenty there about making perfume, but I could find nothing about tobacco. Fascinating that what we perceive as tobacco flavor is really a combination of fruit flavoring.

Thanks again, Bill.

Tim

Edit: I just heard from Linda Andrews. They don't sell the kit or the book any more. Bummer.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

The tobacco flavoring kit and book aren't listed on the Perfumer's Apprentice website. I wanted to check it out. There's plenty there about making perfume, but I could find nothing about tobacco. Fascinating that what we perceive as tobacco flavor is really a combination of fruit flavoring.

Thanks again, Bill.

Tim

Edit: I just heard from Linda Andrews. They don't sell the kit or the book any more. Bummer.

Yeah, been a while. I may have a copy, though I haven't seen it for a while. I'll look and let you know,.

 

[Dixie1954]

I am new - is there a chart of what percentages to start with somewhere in this thread? I tried a search but can not find it. Please help

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I am new - is there a chart of what percentages to start with somewhere in this thread? I tried a search but can not find it. Please help

I go here a lot for starting percentages:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...entice-flavoring-thread-137.html#post10979607

 

[Dixie1954]

I go here a lot for starting percentages:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...entice-flavoring-thread-137.html#post10979607

Thank You so much!!

 

[cliffy15]

Thank you my friend.

The green apple. Have you tried increasing your flavor percentage? If so, what happened. I think green apple, I think caramel and sweetener as additives. A small amount of raspberry can knock out the chemical taste of some single flavors without killing the predominant flavor. I might try something like that. Also, you can go the green apple candy route by adding Sweet and Tart. It adds a whole lotta goodness to mediocre flavors. Or just sour, or just sweet, or even a big ol' scoop of cotton candy, so to speak. Really a lot to play with here. I still think it's the journey, and not always the destination, that makes it fun for me. Good luck!

I'm at ~20% with the green apple but it tastes "thin". I moved from a 50/50 mix to a 30/70 pg/vg mix helped with the chemical taste and added a bit of body that I was looking for.

I'm sure that'll need additional additives. I use EM to sweeten, usually, but I've find that a little bit of sucralose can help at the expense of added gunk on the coil. I tried AP, and while that added some depth it didn't do it for me. I am already using a couple drops of malic acid dilution which is rather nice. I'm now contemplating the secondary flavoring - caramel is a good suggestion, thanks =) I'm also considering a small amount of ripe strawberry, or the brown sugar extra - which is currently on the way.

I have a bit of Smooth that I haven't tried, yet, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I'm at ~20% with the green apple but it tastes "thin". I moved from a 50/50 mix to a 30/70 pg/vg mix helped with the chemical taste and added a bit of body that I was looking for.

I'm sure that'll need additional additives. I use EM to sweeten, usually, but I've find that a little bit of sucralose can help at the expense of added gunk on the coil. I tried AP, and while that added some depth it didn't do it for me. I am already using a couple drops of malic acid dilution which is rather nice. I'm now contemplating the secondary flavoring - caramel is a good suggestion, thanks =) I'm also considering a small amount of ripe strawberry, or the brown sugar extra - which is currently on the way.

I have a bit of Smooth that I haven't tried, yet, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for.

A touch of vanilla will add depth. I would think the vanilla swirl might be a good choice here. Creams too, will "thicken" the flavor. Sweet cream or Bavarian cream. They don't change the predominant flavors so much as they do add depth and thickness and creaminess flavoring. I'm partial to creams and vanillas, though. Again, caramel is good. I also like additives like Belgian waffle, graham cracker, and pie flavor. Those will definitely "thicken" things up for you. Good luck!

 

[TheKiwi]

Cripes. Adding sucralose instantly turns a juice extra gunky.

Or did I do something wrong? :O

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Cripes. Adding sucralose instantly turns a juice extra gunky.

Or did I do something wrong? :O

Well, it's water soluble, so it's not that bad! You might want to try cotton candy. I use them both without problems. By gunky do you mean thicker, like Vegetable Glycerine, or something else?

 

[TheKiwi]

Well, it's water soluble, so it's not that bad! You might want to try cotton candy. I use them both without problems. By gunky do you mean thicker, like Vegetable Glycerine, or something else?

Ah ok so I was testing my cappuccino, and a coffee + chocolate mix that I've been tasting for the past few days. For most parts, it doesn't leave behind much residue apart from making my cotton real dark.

I did however add 5 drops of Sucralose to 2 of my samples (approx 5ml) and tested it last night. It basically left a lot of residue/black gunk on my coil after vaping approx 10 drips.

It was pretty much the same thing I was testing for the past 4 to 5 days, except I added in some sucralose. So I just kinda assumed that's the cause?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Ah ok so I was testing my cappuccino, and a coffee + chocolate mix that I've been tasting for the past few days. For most parts, it doesn't leave behind much residue apart from making my cotton real dark.

I did however add 5 drops of Sucralose to 2 of my samples (approx 5ml) and tested it last night. It basically left a lot of residue/black gunk on my coil after vaping approx 10 drips.

It was pretty much the same thing I was testing for the past 4 to 5 days, except I added in some sucralose. So I just kinda assumed that's the cause?

Might not have been fully blended yet, perhaps. When we heat sugar, essentially we're caramelizing it, and it will leave a residue. Nature of the beast. My coils last a day or two, or roughly 20 mls of vaping, before I have to give them a quick clean and burn, and re-wicking. But I have to do this with every juice I use, so I'm not sure how what you're experiencing is any different. Sweet juices definitely have a higher gunk factor, but if the juice is really good, it's not that big an issue to work with, imho. Two cents...

 

[DebiK]

Hey Bill (or anyone else who buys TFA bulk), is TFA (PA) the best place to buy bulk? I know WL is better for smaller amounts. Is there a place better (price + shipping) for bulk orders?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Hey Bill (or anyone else who buys TFA bulk), is TFA (PA) the best place to buy bulk? I know WL is better for smaller amounts. Is there a place better (price + shipping) for bulk orders?

I've ordered from TFA for the last two years, and somewhere along the way, they put me on the wholesale list, which is a substantial cost reduction. Essentially, you can buy 4 oz for about the same price as 1 oz. Not quite four to one, maybe 75% reduction. Since I only use TFA anyway, and I never buy below 4 oz anyway, and often 16 oz, it was welcome news. Having the flavors around in quantity gives confidence to mixes without the worry of "using up" the current supply, or hesitating on ordering in very small quantities. When I went to the larger bottles, seems like my juice making became much more prolific, even though I wasn't really spending a bunch more money. This has been helpful. I can pretty much make up many "drop" batches of all sorts of flavors without worry. Juice has improved accordingly. If you can go that way with TFA, you may find a similar improvement in all sorts of ways.

I have used MFS wholesale, and still do for nicotine in bulk. I usually buy a 2 year supply at a time. I currently have a 3 year supply, though I'll use that up quicker if I make juices for others (private label). Also, I use Bulk Apothecary for diluting agents and carrier bases, i.e,., PG or VG, and usually buy in 5 gallon supplies. The shipping is more than the VG cost, this last time around! But at only about $10 per gallon, you almost have to go that way. Amazon sells a 32 oz bottle for between $15 and $20, or about four to eight times higher. Just add some good glassware to the mix, and you're ready to rock and roll. I have found Amazon a good place to purchase beakers, reagent bottles, syringes, etc. I generally get my Plastic bottles through Amazon from China. 50 bottles of 15 ml bottles is about $6.00, or so. Good pricing, I think. I also buy 15 ml amber glass bottles from Amazon, and they run about $.75 each in bulk, not much of a discount. If I wanted to order bottles in the hundreds, you can get the cost down to about $.50 for dropper glass amber bottles, more or less. So, these are the places I do my shopping these days. I'm open minded though. If there are better sources, I'm all ears.....please, anyone, share with us!

So, that's it pretty much. Two cents...